Javelin could use some changes.



  • So I’ve been playing Javelin, since I absolutely love the concept of spear and shield, being able to toss the spear when at situation, and so on. Since there is a bug where tossed Javelin kills are not rewarded to Javelin, rather to shield, I’ve been playing all melee of late to be able to unlock stuff, and noticed some issues with the fighting style.

    Blocking. Why is it I HAVE to use the shield, when you can block a warhammer with a dagger in this game? There is already a block for Spear using Vanguards, so why not with the Javelin? The shield Archer got is easy to bypass, and when you block with it you see absolutely nothing, making it even harder to defend yourself against an enemy, especially if said enemy is using a quick one hander. Due to the low HP of Archer each block is absolutely essential, and I feel I would do a lot better if I could use the Javelin itself to deflect blows.

    Selected Secondary attack, aka Scroll Down attack, aka Hitting them with the shield. It does less damage then the Stab, it is slower then the stab, and it doesn’t strike at an angle as to bypass shields. Seems to me it is completely unnecessary and just there to fill a slot. Should be tweaked or replaced by something which favours the player - not the Enemy.

    Speed. Now, I just thought I’d bring it along so that the list is slightly longer. This isn’t as much of an issue as the two above, you can totally win with the current speed, even though it can be tricky at times. If you use the Short Spear it will be even less of an issue, even with the weak damage, but I find that I often enough can’t get a strike through at enemies, especially combo spamming MAA. All I can do is cover behind the shield until they get a strike past it - since I cant see them, and die. Any hit I get at them is exchanged for one of theirs unless I manage to completely sidestep, which can be very difficult. Since my damage is lower and my health is lower, I am the one to hit the dust. The lack of a swinging strike also means that I have to hit with precision, so simply sprinting past the enemy spamming LMB isn’t quite as much of an option as it is for the MAA (when facing a Javelin at least).

    Now I realise that Javelin is based on the fact that you’re supposed to get one toss away, hit them, get the new javelin up and finish them off (if they run towards you). Not always this is the case how ever, and one’d think that the Javelin would be able to hold their own slightly better than they currently do in a melee battle. The low health and poor damage per strike (at least with the two first Javelins, don’t know about Heavy) already makes the class one of the most difficult ones in melee. Reload time makes it even more so. The shortcomings listed wouldn’t make too much on an impact on the balance of the game if they were fixed, rather make the Javelin a more enjoyable and played class.

    Rant over! ;)
    Oh and if anyone got any Javelin tips and tricks for melee combat, feel free to post them. ^^



  • javelins already awesome/wait for next patch



  • I had an issue while using them where I would face shot people or something and it makes a block noise and they take no damage even though the shield is on their back!! :(

    Also, I hate hate hate the buckler shield. I’d rather go without a shield at all.

    I agree for the most part with the OP, javs could use a bit of work.



  • I am playing almost exclusively with the javelin the last two weeks. Feel in love with the class after having played mainly vanguard and some MAA (both due to the dane axe).

    The first thing you mentioned is something I would love to have: No shield.
    The shield is way less effective in blocking in a duel (of course kinda nice versus more opponents) and since you are not walking in a cluster of knights you mostly duel anyway. So an option to have no shield would actually make it far more fun but also simply a more effective class.
    Part of the problem is that the shield is simply more buggy than normal parry, but aside from that the OP states correctly that it is simply too small and obstructs a lot of your vision for a duel.
    Conclusion: Although those disadvantages are good for the shield, so it isn’t OP, but it is bad to have no alternative to it; Javelineers are not supposed to fight in clusters anyway.

    On your second point I disagree. FYI: I solely use the pilum (incorrectly named a heavy javelin), because I regard the damage of the other two too low. Not on a speed/damage basis, i just value damage a bit more in that range than speed. MAA are faster than you anyway, whether you fight with a short or heavy javelin.
    So although the shield attack would be irrelevant in short spears, I use it all the time with my heavy jav. Since the main attack is slower, the enemy never sees the shield bash coming. After the shield bash the slow javelin attack is rarely countered since people are alerted and actually block too fast.
    The damage of the shield attack is extremely low, but it should be used as a psychological attack. It breaks the pattern and has a surprise effect.
    I rarely see javelineers use it, mainly because they simply see it as a unworthy attack due to the damage, but you just have to use it right.

    The main tip I can give you is timing and footwork along with the quick shield attack.
    Simply because VG’s and Knights always charge in and attack; If you attack from pretty far away, they will not even attempt to block. When it hits try to circly around him and shield attack (he tries to follow you but the quick attack dazzles the enemy enough to slows his turn rate). Afterwards you step back from him and immediately go for the stab. They will go for the attack 99% of the time the moment you step back and that stab takes him down permanently.
    This is what I mean with I well timed shield attack which can give you enough time to enter a second stab (of course, this does not work without some footwork. Make use of your speed as an archer)

    Edit:
    After playing with the patch the shield appears to be utterly useless (behaving like a swiss knife), dunno why it isn’t in the changelog, but it is very annoying.
    It never hits when i should be close enough (pre-patch distance) and when people circle even 1 pixel of your reticule it will also not hit.

    So I am afraid some part of the tips i mention is not useful anymore:(



  • @Toxirine:

    So I’ve been playing Javelin, since I absolutely love the concept of spear and shield, being able to toss the spear when at situation, and so on. Since there is a bug where tossed Javelin kills are not rewarded to Javelin, rather to shield, I’ve been playing all melee of late to be able to unlock stuff, and noticed some issues with the fighting style.

    Blocking. Why is it I HAVE to use the shield, when you can block a warhammer with a dagger in this game? There is already a block for Spear using Vanguards, so why not with the Javelin? The shield Archer got is easy to bypass, and when you block with it you see absolutely nothing, making it even harder to defend yourself against an enemy, especially if said enemy is using a quick one hander. Due to the low HP of Archer each block is absolutely essential, and I feel I would do a lot better if I could use the Javelin itself to deflect blows.

    Selected Secondary attack, aka Scroll Down attack, aka Hitting them with the shield. It does less damage then the Stab, it is slower then the stab, and it doesn’t strike at an angle as to bypass shields. Seems to me it is completely unnecessary and just there to fill a slot. Should be tweaked or replaced by something which favours the player - not the Enemy.

    Speed. Now, I just thought I’d bring it along so that the list is slightly longer. This isn’t as much of an issue as the two above, you can totally win with the current speed, even though it can be tricky at times. If you use the Short Spear it will be even less of an issue, even with the weak damage, but I find that I often enough can’t get a strike through at enemies, especially combo spamming MAA. All I can do is cover behind the shield until they get a strike past it - since I cant see them, and die. Any hit I get at them is exchanged for one of theirs unless I manage to completely sidestep, which can be very difficult. Since my damage is lower and my health is lower, I am the one to hit the dust. The lack of a swinging strike also means that I have to hit with precision, so simply sprinting past the enemy spamming LMB isn’t quite as much of an option as it is for the MAA (when facing a Javelin at least).

    Now I realise that Javelin is based on the fact that you’re supposed to get one toss away, hit them, get the new javelin up and finish them off (if they run towards you). Not always this is the case how ever, and one’d think that the Javelin would be able to hold their own slightly better than they currently do in a melee battle. The low health and poor damage per strike (at least with the two first Javelins, don’t know about Heavy) already makes the class one of the most difficult ones in melee. Reload time makes it even more so. The shortcomings listed wouldn’t make too much on an impact on the balance of the game if they were fixed, rather make the Javelin a more enjoyable and played class.

    Rant over! ;)
    Oh and if anyone got any Javelin tips and tricks for melee combat, feel free to post them. ^^

    I find the shield slam overly amazing as an extra option for the melee attack with the Jav. I too use the Jav S+SH combo and I love it. I really find it to the best the most skill-required and rewarding class in the game.

    I use the scrolldown Shield Slam as a way to pummel my opponent down. I can easily go into scrub Vanguards and just spam that quick attack so fast that they can’t do anything. Its a certainly great beatdown technique.

    Stab is useful for more adept players as well as chasing down people…but I certainly feel it could use a SLIGHT range boost.

    The throw is epic and ever since the patch I welcome the new hop that it requires in order to put your whole body in the throw…before it felt very Arcadey :P



  • shield-stab works for me, it’s fast, comes from an unexpected ancle and makes a nice combo.



  • @Nivve:

    Edit:
    After playing with the patch the shield appears to be utterly useless (behaving like a swiss knife), dunno why it isn’t in the changelog, but it is very annoying.
    It never hits when i should be close enough (pre-patch distance) and when people circle even 1 pixel of your reticule it will also not hit.

    So I am afraid some part of the tips i mention is not useful anymore:(

    It was in the patch notes:

    • Fixed issue where javelin overhead would behave like a shove instead of using tracers.


  • Javelineer is a complete joke after this new patch unless there is a new exploit to throw faster. The long reload speed and damage differences still makes no sense between all the different javelin types. The most fun a jav players will have is when they can poke somebody 3-4 times in a row without being 1shot by their opponent.

    Once again I do not understand why the devs disregard all the ranged mechanics from AoC only to come up with something completely unsatisfying for a lot of players.


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