More Euro-History, Less Euro-Disney



  • I really like the game but all of the castles look a bit dodgy, they don’t really work as castles and seem really fake
    castles are a very important part of a middle ages based game and at the moment they are a little disappointing



  • @fdsdh1:

    and at the moment they are a little disappointing

    Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

    In any case, I don’t see why the castles look off, they have some typical gothic architecture in them and as for the interiour, all we have to go on is the hall where the King needs to be slain in Stoneshill and part of Hillside. To me they do feel like proper castles.



  • Do you remember those teleporting soldiers dodging swings in Euro-history?



  • @SharpshotSid:

    Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

    In any case, I don’t see why the castles look off, they have some typical gothic architecture in them and as for the interiour, all we have to go on is the hall where the King needs to be slain in Stoneshill and part of Hillside. To me they do feel like proper castles.

    Agreed, they may not be entirely like classic castles, but then again, every fictional castle isn’t. I find all the fortresses/castles/citadels in C:MW look astonishing and they most definitely haven’t destroyed the medieval immersion for me once.



  • It’s not 1:1 of European Medieval History.



  • @fdsdh1:

    I really like the game but all of the castles look a bit dodgy, they don’t really work as castles and seem really fake
    castles are a very important part of a middle ages based game and at the moment they are a little disappointing

    Can you elaborate on what you want to see? ‘don’t really work’ and ‘disappointing’ are rather vague terms.

    I have been shot by archers I cannot reach, or even sometimes see. I have been bottlenecked and butchered in a murder hole of an entrance. I have fallen to my doom from battlements… seems like fairly believable fictional castles to me.

    Yes, if they increase/add to the siege mechanics of some TO maps, it would be nice to see some castle design based more on historical architecture, but atm they act as suitable backdrops for the bloodletting. And let’s not forget, ‘proper’ castles greatly favoured the defender in an assault, hence why most sieges were acts of attrition and starvation/disease as opposed to actual assaults… which doesn’t lay the best groundwork for fun or balanced MP maps imo.



  • Castles that exist now that were built in the middle ages look very different than how they looked when they were freshly built. Consider that.



  • I like the castles although I’m very unhappy that there is only one single object where you get to take advantage of one. All the other castles are just background, yet pretty and in place looking background, but useless in battle.



  • Let’s admit for a moment that you’re right and we all agree with you etc.
    Do you really think they’d redesign the whole maps?



  • @The:

    Let’s admit for a moment that you’re right and we all agree with you etc.
    Do you really think they’d redesign the whole maps?

    No, but when the SDK is released I for one want to make some real Castles. Wales has some of the best examples of Castles worldwide. Conwy and Caernarfon both need modelling asap.



  • @MUSASHI:

    Do you remember those teleporting soldiers dodging swings in Euro-history?

    I don’t think anyone remembers teleporting soldiers dodging swings.



  • Ok when I say I was dissapointed about the castles I mean, there aren’t enough of them, and they all look really wierd, if you have ever seen a real castle you’ll know what I mean, the casltes we have, have oversized bricks, humongous windows, perculiar architecture, not a very good design (for defence) lack of battlements

    more gothic, less gothic revival, arrow slits instead of bay windows, and no defenders outside the battlements unless they go in small groups at regular time intervals through a gated sally port

    the whole thing is a bit lackluster on the castle front, there are not enough battlements to fight on or towers to take, its breach the gate and go kill the king mission complete

    I’d rather, capture the walls open the gate

    burn the caslte buildings then break into the keep and get the king

    (see that castle on the forum background, I want to play in that, not outside it, I want arrows being showered at me from the walls, siege towers been hauled into position, catapults knocking down towers and a battering ram smashing at the first of many gates and portcullises I want a proper castle attack, with a proper castle)


    like this castle

    at the moment the castles look more like 19th century gothic revival than the ‘real deal’



  • That post was much better than your original opener, don’t know why you didn’t start the thread with that.

    Anyway, it seems that what you really want is more variety and ‘accuracy’ on siege maps, indeed you want some proper sieges. And I’d also love to see more siege elements implemented. However, there is a game balance to be had.

    Castles favour the defence. So either we would need imbalanced team numbers to help the attackers, or other game mechanics to held even things up. I think arrow slits are a good example of this. Yes, they are more accurate architecturally, but they would make archers using them nigh on invincible, which is imba… whereas larger windows (albeit slightly unrealistic) allows for return fire. Much like the crenulations on the battlements, which offer protection but not immunity.

    I do like the idea of a sally port spawn, and have proposed the idea of siege towers and so forth (working like the battering ram does needing pushing) in another thread. You are not alone in wanting more siegey stuff and fighting in and on and around a castle… I think we shall see more of this in future DLC, I hope!

    Finally, be careful when you say ‘ever seen a real castle’, not all castles are the same across Europe or the near east. The castles of the Tutonic Knights for example were made of fired clay bricks with tiled roofs, quite unlike English stone castles.



  • @McT:

    @The:

    Let’s admit for a moment that you’re right and we all agree with you etc.
    Do you really think they’d redesign the whole maps?

    No, but when the SDK is released I for one want to make some real Castles. Wales has some of the best examples of Castles worldwide. Conwy and Caernarfon both need modelling asap.

    Well, when the SDK is released, sure. I’m pretty confident some mappers will make more “historically accurate” maps.



  • @fdsdh1:

    This shit is awesome, and would make for a fantastic map. Helms Deep would still be #1 though.



  • I completly understand the op here. Stuff like this:

    can have a big impact on the “credibilyty” of the setting. The big deal is not about the things that most pele discussed here, it is a bout “destroying the illusion” that you are really in the game. That feeling is very important.

    But, map design can’t adress everything. To build a castly map that would satify people pricky about historic accuracy, the map would be way too big which would be bad for graphical optimisation. Also it would be a bit harder to implement balance.
    The stupidly placed battlements are not there because are supposed to be there, but to conceal that there is nothing behind them.



  • If your suggestion is bigger and better more historically inclined castles (ie, adhering mostly to the practices of castle design through the ages) then yes I agree.

    As for ‘favouring the defenders’ on the one hand, yes, and this isn’t a problem: when you play asymmetric maps you accept the fact that one side has an advantage by nature. They are defenders of a castle and if that’s not a certain advantage, then it’s being done wrong. However you balance it (to a degree) using spawn timers and other things. So for example whilst the defenders might stand atop the battlements pouring oil and notching their arrows, when they die (and the archers will inevitably die a horrible death), they have to wait longer and spawn slightly further back from the action. The attackers on the other hand might get a mobile spawn point that moves closer and closer. If you don’t hold them back then soon they will be overrunning your outer wall, and so on.

    Mount and Blade has an array of amazing user created castles (as well as some pretty decent official efforts) for mods like CRPG and you see plenty of attacker victories (usually the objective being to capture the flag or beat down a gate way - Chivalry can do much better).

    I expect to see these kind of historical maps when the map editor releases or people get round to doing that kind of thing, anyway.


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