One-Handers are far too powerful and fast.



  • Specifically the ones that can 2 shot a Vanguard and even obliterate a Knight. It seems almost redundant to use a heavy-hitting 2hander when their are 1-handers in the game that are far faster, far more effective to feint with, and have no disadvantage for not using a shield when the parry is extremely fast and somehow can continuously defect weapons 3 times their size in a “realistic game.”

    Their damage needs to be nerfed, and they can’t be nearly as effective to parry with. Right now there is nothing stopping players from picking these weapons and mashing m1 and right click mindlessly to win their fights. On top of extremely quick feinting, maa teleports, extra knight armor, and choice to use a shield (although why bother when 1-hand parry is god-like) the fast-striking and 2-shotting 1handers need to be toned back.

    I propose that on top of damage nerfs, their needs to be a negative for not using a shield when parrying with a 1-hander against the largest 2-handers. They should perhaps have damage for a parry when the enemy’s weapon is so much bigger than theirs. Simple physics should imply that the guy with a spike on a stick shouldn’t be able to effortlessly deflect a massive 2handed sword or polearm.



  • I’ve posted in several threads saying the exact same thing.

    The biggest grudge I have is warhammer vs maul… I say buff the maul to do enough damage to 1 shot knight in the head or nerf warhammer damage.

    I have seen some arguments that made sense to NOT nerf warhammer… I do admit I am biased towards maul, so my opinion on the subject wouldn’t be very objective.



  • More in response to the above poster…

    Aside from the Warhamer, the fastest weapon to kill a Knight in 2 hits is now the Polaxe (it wasn’t last patch, the Poleaxe overhead got buffed this patch). The difference between the two is 0.45 and 0.5s, so 0.05s on their overheads. However, the Warhammer can be wielded with a Shield (and shields counter feints completely, whilst still being able to feint themselves, and the Warhammer is good for feinting). The Poleaxe also has a much longer release and recovery period than the Warhammer and the Warhammer combos significantly faster. People claim the recovery on the Warhammer is its downside, but that means very little if you know how to avoid it.

    There has to be a compromise somewhere. Both of these weapons 2 hit every class, the Warhammer downright beats the Poleaxe, and they are in 2 separate categories. Literally only the size of the weapon separates these two, and there’s not much between it. If the Warhammer is the true 1h anti-Knight weapon, remove its 2 hit capability from MAA/Vanguards, although, I appreciate that would be extremely difficult without manual damage tables.



  • I’ve always thought that ability to equip shield is the ADVANTAGE of one handers. Why do so many people think that no shield is better?

    And also, I have to disagree with OP. If it weren’t for shield I don’t think one handers are too powerful. If you mash m1 you will just get stabbed to peices by a kiting vanguard with Halberd (and every vanguard does this, even newbs), while none of your hits will even strike the enemy.

    I’m a pretty decent mace+kite shield user myself, and I have to say it isn’t as easy as all these people who think the combination is OP think it is. I’ve met many people on duel servers, who use longswords/halberds that will beat me over and over thanks to range, despite my repeated attempts to get in close and feint.

    Honestly, against a Vanguard that knows how to kick you back/stab, it takes some skill to take him down with a 1H + shield combination. Because everytime the vanguard stabs/kicks you, even if it hits your shield, you get knocked backwards a good distance, far out of reach from your short 1h weapon. A 2h user that is very agressive with jabbing their weapon but very passive at the same time with constant kiting will always keep the 1h player out of range and eventually kill him.



  • I don’t use shields because it’s boring. I also prefer the extra dodge distance for shieldless MAA.



  • I’ve always thought that ability to equip shield is the ADVANTAGE of one handers. Why do so many people think that no shield is better?

    Because you can literally deflect every single 2handed attack with a one-hander with absolute ease. You can practically mash m2 and then counter with m1. There is no real cooldown for one-handed parry, and it is effective against even the biggest 2-handers. How is it fair that all of my attacks, feints and all, are easily countered by the puniest of weapons and then slaughtered with a quick and powerful counterattack that I can’t defend against? The 1hand parry SHOULD NOT be as versatile as the 2handed parry. They should take damage if they parry against 2handers that are far larger and slower. They SHOULD NOT be able to counter everything with mashing m2 and then mashing 1 to counterrattack.

    The incentive to get a shield is only against archers. With a 1hand that can block everything…why bother? Bad game design.



  • I always thought it was silly that people could walk up to an archer with a two handed maul and get blocked with a butter knife. <_<



  • OP you are being very extreme and ridiculous and I hope you know that. Saying 1h is OP is one thing, but saying it is to the extent you are trying to claim is just crazy.

    Firstly, mashing m2 will not see you block everything, whether you are using a 1h or not. You obviously never have used a 1h before, or very rarely do you use it. The 1h parry must be timed just as precisely as the 2h one, and a 2h user can feint too, and it will connect most of the time unless the 1h player happens to guess right (but that is rare).

    And like I explained in my previous post, if you mash m1 you will get jabbed to peices by a kiting knight/vanguard with a 2h weapon, before your 1h weapon even gets into range. As a player that often goes 1h+shield myself I can tell you from experience that good 2h players will kick my ass, but I’m pretty decent at the game. It is not hard to feint a 1h player with no shield when wielding a 2h weapon, and all it takes against the m1 masher is to walk backwards while jabbing (and feinting the jab when its right) and the 1h masher will drop dead, with you being full health.)

    You have to be REAL incompetent to allow a m1 masher with ANY weapon to beat you.



  • He resorts to hyperbole because his experience with this game is obviously limited.



  • Agreed, certain 1h weapons (specifically Knight ones) do too much damage, especially when you can combine that with a shield. It’s pretty dumb that a 1 handed fast swinging weapon does same damage as a very slow 2 handed one.



  • I’m fine with the 1h damages.
    What they should do is increase the stamina drain from blocking a 2 hander.
    And also being out of stamina should make the blocking completely ineffective.
    Should increase stamina drain while wielding a 2h too, though.



  • @Martin:

    More in response to the above poster…

    Aside from the Warhamer, the fastest weapon to kill a Knight in 2 hits is now the Polaxe (it wasn’t last patch, the Poleaxe overhead got buffed this patch). The difference between the two is 0.45 and 0.5s, so 0.05s on their overheads. However, the Warhammer can be wielded with a Shield (and shields counter feints completely, whilst still being able to feint themselves, and the Warhammer is good for feinting). The Poleaxe also has a much longer release and recovery period than the Warhammer and the Warhammer combos significantly faster. People claim the recovery on the Warhammer is its downside, but that means very little if you know how to avoid it.

    There has to be a compromise somewhere. Both of these weapons 2 hit every class, the Warhammer downright beats the Poleaxe, and they are in 2 separate categories. Literally only the size of the weapon separates these two, and there’s not much between it. If the Warhammer is the true 1h anti-Knight weapon, remove its 2 hit capability from MAA/Vanguards, although, I appreciate that would be extremely difficult without manual damage tables.

    This is silly, the poleaxe at the moment is far superior to the warhammer. The warhammer itself is only powerful against knights and even then is quite limited due to its lack of reach and decent stab damage. In a 1v1 situation, the solution for a knight against warhammer is to make use of distance advantage and switch to sidearm (broadsword, falchion or norse sword are all satisfactory for this purpose). The poleaxe itself is an incredibly powerful weapon, with its only main downside being slightly more difficult to aim than the hand and a half swords. However, the positioning of the polaxe’s end of windup enables you to make picking overhead feints on it impossible, given crouching and proper weapon tip forcing. To do so, you merely need to push the end of windup weapon tip position to be inside your opponent.

    Shields are not necessarily a complete counter to feints, and 1h no shield is far more capable with dealing with strikes aimed around shields, especially when you are positioned such that your weapon tip tracer starts behind the enemy shield initially.

    Warhammer itself is balanced by how it is only primarily usable against knight. Sure it 2 hits vanguards and man at arms, but so does your falchion, or your norse sword, at a greater reach and speed, and lower recovery as well.

    When the OP was referring to the balance of the maul, I think that the main problem that is missed largely is the addition of the feint time. Most weapons block recovery time is lower than that of the time taken to re-attack after a feint with the weapon, so it has become possible to merely double-block against the maul and not worry about the potential for the feint.

    One handers themselves are far more versatile than 2 handers in non-organised pub combat, partially due to the far higher attack speeds, (even with hand and a half swords used in 1 handed, which is odd to say the least) and the presence of a left-angled initial attack. Against shield users I generally switch to my 1h sword primarily due to the added difficulty in having no left attack on 2 handed weapons to get around the shield.

    Due to the addition of the idle animation flinching, one handers are also quite powerful in combos. A dane axe overhead can be combod quite quickly over the top of the max blocking height or with weapon tip tracer position starting behind the enemy’s block position. This can even be performed with the short sword, which is able to flinch stun opponents on combos. Attempts to break the start of the combo with a hit trade will lead to a flinch, and attempts to block to push out of the combo may be avoided with careful weapon tip manipulation.

    The main problem is that careful weapon tip manipulation at close range is quite able to maneuver around enemy blocks quite easily, and is quite trivial with 1 handed weapons with decent speed/reach combinations. However performing the same weapon tip manipulation with 2 handed weapons is a bit more difficult due to left attack absence and slower speed.

    It should be noted that as far I can currently tell, scrim based group fighting does redeem 2 handers, as well as polearms quite considerably, as reach is an extremely important component of organised group v group fighting.



  • I primarily play Knight and Vanguard with 2handers and I don’t see a problem with 1hander damage or speed. I would be very disappointed if any existing 1handers were changed. It’s tough blocking them and difficult getting a hit in with a slower 2hander, but you have at least two options:

    1. Footwork - You shouldn’t stand there trading blows and expect to come out on top. Keep moving with your feet and your mouse. You can move out of range of any hit while winding up for a swing and moving back into range to deliver it. This requires timing and feints also help.

    2. Use your own 1hander secondary weapon - Everyone has a secondary dagger or sword. Situational weapon switching is a skill that dates back at least to Quake. You have to learn when to switch weapons based on what you think your opponent is going to do.

    I don’t see any major balance issues in the game right now - I’ve played all classes with pretty much every weapon and have both killed and gotten killed by opponents in lots of situations and weapon combinations. A lot of what people are complaining about comes down to a lack of understanding the swing mechanics (e.g., some people bitch when you spin into hits…derp) or a lack of skill. I haven’t seen any weapon so ridiculously overpowered that that it breaks the game, just a lot of complaining from people who haven’t figured things out yet.

    A game like this will succeed if the fundamental weapon mechanics remain relatively stable from this point on. If you start dicking with the stats you’re going to end up breaking what’s already a reasonably well-balanced set of weaponry. I’d focus on adding more maps and fixing terrain bugs that make you stick, of which there are many.



  • :|



  • @MUSASHI:

    He resorts to hyperbole because his experience with this game is obviously limited.

    He resorts to finding a method of dismissing views he disagrees with because he is obviously incapable of creating a coherent response.



  • @yedrellow:

    Due to the addition of the idle animation flinching, one handers are also quite powerful in combos. A dane axe overhead can be combod quite quickly over the top of the max blocking height or with weapon tip tracer position starting behind the enemy’s block position. This can even be performed with the short sword, which is able to flinch stun opponents on combos. Attempts to break the start of the combo with a hit trade will lead to a flinch, and attempts to block to push out of the combo may be avoided with careful weapon tip manipulation.

    This is false. If your claim is valid, then all the longer weapons will go over to the back of the defender, which is not the case.

    If you look straight up, you will get hit. You shouldn’t look straight up. You should only look about 60-70 degrees upward. I tested thoroughly.

    Dane Axe going around the blocks is not due to its reaching over the back of the defender, but more about the defender’s right side.



  • one handers are not far too powerful or too fast.

    They are not more effective to feign with.

    I’ll be handing out demonstrations if you want, message me on steam MIKE EFFING JONES



  • It is a pretty obvious fix IMO.

    There needs to be a new system added to the game. One based on the mass of the weapons.

    When a lower mass weapon parries a higher mass weapon, the lower mass weapon should get knock-back and stun based on the mass difference. For example:
    Also the length of the stun should be increased as stamina goes down.

    A dagger parries a 2hd Maul. The mass difference is very large. The player with the dagger is knocked back in the vector of the maul at parry time, also they are stunned for a decent length of time (with animation of course). They should have ‘just’ enough time to parry a second maul hit.

    Of course if a larger mass weapons parry a small mass weapon, the small mass weapon is again knocked back, without stun tho.

    This would create a very interesting twist to the game.



  • Ignoring several of the ‘no u wrng op iz ignerantt’ trollish responses…

    There needs to be a new system added to the game. One based on the mass of the weapons.

    Wholeheartedly agreed. This would probably fix the issue entirely. The fact of the matter is that parrying with 1handers is infinitely more effective than parrying with a 2hander. This is exacerbated by the swing speed and large damage values of several 1handers as well. After a 1hander parries an attack with an easy parry there is nothing stopping them from abusing the speed of their parry and subsequent counter attacks, landing easy hits that are not deserved because the 2hander’s parry is so infinitely weaker.

    A system where the size and weight of one’s weapon makes a light weapon’s parry far less effective would be excellent and logical. It would also make more sense game-wise because as of right now parrying with a 1hander beats using a shield in every encounter besides ranged attacks.



  • The guys mentioning the pole axe being supreme here: The stab on that thing has a recovery time of 1 second, with the swing and overhead being 0.9 seconds. That’s way more than any of the 2h swords, and it’s pretty noticeable when you use it.


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