Calling all javelineers



  • Does any one else find the fact that, after the patch, you can’t switch to your secondary quickly annoying? I used to be able to throw a jav at a charging vanguard then switch weapons to avoid the “jav reload” slow. now i have to wait the dreadful 60% slow before being able to switch weapon, and i often find my self dead after my first throw. I know that other thrown weapons do not restrict one from switching weapons after thrown. It just makes me sad some times :’(



  • Throw it earlier or swap out to your secondary earlier. It’s the same with people who complain about dying when someone charges them with their bow out.



  • @Ulven:

    Throw it earlier or swap out to your secondary earlier. It’s the same with people who complain about dying when someone charges them with their bow out.

    Pretty much this.
    It’s what we call “wanting to have their cake and eat it too”.
    Either die trying to throw your last javelin/arrow/bolt, or switch immediately.



  • It’s absolute bullshit. Playing a Javelin archer as it is now is so unforgiving that they might as well delete them. It’s a class that suck both at Archery and at melee at the same time. I can’t seem to grasp what the developers had in mind for them. Something needs to be done in my opinion, I think giving archers enough HP to survive 2-3 attacks and removing the unnecessary delay on blocking would maybe fix it.

    As a bonus, while we wait for the developers to fix the class, I have decided to write this guide for Archers having trouble who want to be do good in game:

    1. Roll a Vanguard
    2. Bind left mouse button to move forward.
    3. Bind the rest of the Keyboard to “swing attack”
    4. Proceed to hold down LMB while bashing your head against the keyboard.

    Congrats, you have now mastered the game.



  • @Achilles-:

    Something needs to be done in my opinion, I think giving archers enough HP to survive 2-3 attacks and removing the unnecessary delay on blocking would maybe fix it.

    Give archers more HP? What?

    Archers are a support class and should be played that way. The “shotgunning” most archers use is annoying as it is. That is the reason for the delay. If you want to shoot when your opponent is close that’s a risk you take. If you succeed you bring the enemy down to a one hit kill. If you fail you die, simple really.

    As a bonus, while we wait for the developers to fix the class, I have decided to write this guide for Archers having trouble who want to be do good in game:

    1. Roll a Vanguard
    2. Bind left mouse button to move forward.
    3. Bind the rest of the Keyboard to “swing attack”
    4. Proceed to hold down LMB while bashing your head against the keyboard.

    Congrats, you have now mastered the game.

    I personally love slash spammers. They make for great fodder. Let them swing at you all day while you stab them to death between their strikes while laughing in their face.



  • Archers are a support class and should be played that way. The “shotgunning” most archers use is annoying as it is. That is the reason for the delay. If you want to shoot when your opponent is close that’s a risk you take. If you succeed you bring the enemy down to a one hit kill. If you fail you die, simple really.

    The fact of the matter is that all classes should be equally capable, otherwise there really no point in playing any other class then the one currently best at mowing down people. Calling archers "support and ignoring their issues is bullshit. How exactly are they supporting anything? (other then of course the enemies K:D ratio, at witch I must admit archers exceed like no other class). And no, you don’t bring shit down in one hit (well, except other archers) - Knights can even take a freaking head-shot without biting the dust and more often then not a second javelin won’t even finish them as they run up and chop your head off in one freaking random unstoppable swing in the name of fairness. And what happens if you survive that random swing? Well, you stunned and can no longer block, so you get to eat shit and die anyway.

    On top of all this, Javelins are also:
    1. Insanely limited, meaning that after just a couple of throws you might just press F10 and get it over with.
    2. Are pretty much impossible to hit with most of the time, due to the slow projectile.
    3. Have low range, forcing you to either stay too far behind and be useless to your team, or stay in the middle of combat where you are both vulnerable to being one-hit melee and by another archer.
    4. Have quite possibly the most dodgy and badly flowing animation imaginable.
    5. It goes without saying that archers suck in melee, but alas while the Javelin looks like it might be longer it’s still about the same range as the short sword, but on top of that has only one useful attack.

    I could honestly go on listing stuff that is just down right terrible with the Javelin archer, but I think I have made my point.

    TL;DR Javelin Archers are terrible at everything and calling them support doesn’t excuse that.

    I personally love slash spammers. They make for great fodder. Let them swing at you all day while you stab them to death between their strikes while laughing in their face.

    Whether you love them or not, they will probably still mow down around 5 people with random swings before going down to that one guy who knew how to use the block button - Needless to say people running around like headless chickens swinging two handers are equally as likely to come out on top as a skilled players playing a Javelin archers are.



  • I have to say that i don’t agree with you guys saying that the javelineer class is not a viable loadout, i played with it in the week end and damn, it’s a very good loadout. The first two games i started playing with this class i had the same idea as you guys, i thought it sucked. But as i got used to the timing of my throws and the melee and placing and so on, it became very fun. It’s so satisfying when you throw that spear in a guys face or plant a nipplestinger on him. You just have to be patient because after those two games, i unlocked the light javelins or short spears, i don’t recall the name right now, and from then on, it just became ownage. You can throw it fast and stab fast, if somebody turns their back on you, headshot him and then stab him up his arse and you have him.

    As for tactics, don’t rush in to the fight, stay back and actually, in my opinion, you’ll do way better as a lone wolf with this class. Just go around the edges of the fight and pick your targets wisely, since i started playing with the faster javelins (of which you get more, i think 2 or something like that) i haven’t dropped under a 4.00 k/d ratio and have been on the top of the scoreboard almost all the time. When your still having aiming problems, use these lighter javelins, you can practice more because you have more of them and they also go faster. And when you’re feeling comfortable with your aim and you melee tactics, use the heavy javelins. They are awesome!

    I used the heavy javelins on the seond night and won 6 straight ffa games, you can one hit the vanguard (with a headshot), the archer and the man at arms, the knight took me a throw and a nipplestinger most of the time. It’s a very good loadout once you learn how to play with it, i seriously recoomend it, i always play as a knight so i never played ranged, this was my first time and it went great.

    last tip, don’t be afraid to play it very tactfully in the beginning of your javelin carnage, when you see your team fighting some other dudes and they hit the enemy, throw your spear in them and get the kill, it’s medieval warfare people.



  • @Achilles-:

    The fact of the matter is that all classes should be equally capable, otherwise there really no point in playing any other class then the one currently best at mowing down people. Calling archers "support and ignoring their issues is bullshit. How exactly are they supporting anything? (other then of course the enemies K:D ratio, at witch I must admit archers exceed like no other class). And no, you don’t bring shit down in one hit (well, except other archers) - Knights can even take a freaking head-shot without biting the dust and more often then not a second javelin won’t even finish them as they run up and chop your head off in one freaking random unstoppable swing in the name of fairness. And what happens if you survive that random swing? Well, you stunned and can no longer block, so you get to eat shit and die anyway.

    They support by staying at medium to close range peppering enemies with arrows from the sides, or for the Javelin thrower, by staying near friends, going out on the flanks, throwing javelins into the sides or backsides of enemies or stabbing them with the javelin in the back for a +50% extra damage boost. If you swap out to the cudgel you can kill a healthy knights with two hits on the noggin from behind. Nothing can kill a knight in one hit though, but you only have to poke him once with anything after you hit his face with a javelin or a crossbow.

    @Achilles-:

    On top of all this, Javelins are also:
    1. Insanely limited, meaning that after just a couple of throws you might just press F10 and get it over with.
    2. Are pretty much impossible to hit with most of the time, due to the slow projectile.
    3. Have low range, forcing you to either stay too far behind and be useless to your team, or stay in the middle of combat where you are both vulnerable to being one-hit melee and by another archer.
    4. Have quite possibly the most dodgy and badly flowing animation imaginable.
    5. It goes without saying that archers suck in melee, but alas while the Javelin looks like it might be longer it’s still about the same range as the short sword, but on top of that has only one useful attack.

    I could honestly go on listing stuff that is just down right terrible with the Javelin archer, but I think I have made my point.

    TL;DR Javelin Archers are terrible at everything and calling them support doesn’t excuse that.

    1: I agree that the javelin count is quite low, I don’t really see why the nerfed the amount but at least you can pick up the javelins you missed again from the ground.
    2: With some practice it’s really easy to hit with all ranged weapons in this game. I’ve had people whine about throwing daggers being overpowered because I kept killing people with them!
    3: Or you could stay at a medium to close distance, where you can throw your javelin from safety, use the shield to make sure nothing will hurt you while allies get enemies off your back and melee enemies in the back for another +50% damage.
    4: No comment on the animations.
    5: An equal skilled knight with a one-handed weapon will beat an equal skilled archer in melee. You can even hurt knights with towershields while they advance on you though by hutting their feet with arrows. You can also almost stun-lock people by spamming the “overhead” attack with the javelin. The shield bash is incredibly fast.

    No, the Javelin doesn’t have the range of the bows or crossbows, but it got way longer range than even the spear. Use the classes strengths and if you don’t manage to kill the enemy before he’s in melee, unless you’ve been unlucky he should be injured by the time he has reached you. If there are no friendlies to peel him off a quick poke or two should deal with him.

    TL;DR Learn to play the class and try to actually utilize it’s strengths.



  • Have to agree with the poster who said that Jevelins are now equally bad as melee and ranged weapons.



  • Archers are support. Javelins are not. The problem is, in AoC Javelineer was a separate class from longbow and crossbow. Longbow and crossbow were basically the same class but had different primaries; Javelineer had better mobility than the other archers, and the same armor as a man-at-arms. This made him actually capable of holding his own in melee, because the extra bit of armor prevented a lot of things from killing in one hit, and the extra movement alongside the stronger melee weapon is invaluable.

    Javelins themselves are far weaker than they were in AoC (as are Crossbows) - which is baffling to me, because bows are so much stronger and archers have much better melee weapons as well. Bucklers are also weaker, and the melee javelin is much weaker. AoC Javelineer had a stronger stab with much better range, and a faster, higher damage shield bash - they even had a slash, because ranged javelins were a separate weapon instead of a separate attack, but that isn’t really a positive mark because their slash was terrible and weapon switch times were long. Ranged javelins in AoC had the range of small spears and a higher ammo count, but did slightly more damage than heavy javelins, being able to one shot MaAs and other archers to the body.

    The weaker ranged capabilities I can live with. In my mind the class should be equally ranged and melee focused, or even more melee focused than ranged. Your limited ammo is a sign that it shouldn’t be your primary method of fighting. However, the weaker melee capabilities are absolutely crippling. Obviously it’s hard to directly compare AoC to Chivalry because of all of the changes to the game - but a lot of those changes are actually the reason why Javelins don’t feel as good as they did in AoC, due to the new class setup folding them in with other archers. The way archers work in Chivalry makes them far from ideal to be used as melee fighters at all - meaning javelins serve as low range, low ammo ranged weapons with a slightly more powerful melee backup than regular archers get, and a shield.

    tl;dr - the problem with javelins is they’re a front line/skirmish weapon on a support class. If MaA got javelins, imagine how much better they’d be.



  • @SlyGoat:

    tl;dr - the problem with javelins is they’re a front line/skirmish weapon on a support class. If MaA got javelins, imagine how much better they’d be.

    I like the idea of MAA with Javelins, except not with their dodge ability! If that could be switched off while having javelins on your players load out, then I would accept it. They should just make jav archers more beefy.(if they can change it just for that loadout).



  • I’m a new player who just started this week. I don’t know what the pre-patch days were like for Javelin, but Javelin is my favorite class. Depending on the game type, I can be pretty successful as Javelineer.

    Javelin doesn’t do much damage, our ammo is limited, and we get one-shot easily. Personally, I think that’s how it should be.

    However… the thing that annoys me the most is my run speed. I can sprint in a straight line and all the other classes can still catch me and kill me. If I want to retreat, I should be able to retreat. That’s the whole point of being lightly armored. As it stands now, retreating is equal to death for me. That’s why I pull out my sword and board and try to defend myself, but that’s rarely successful.

    Basically, if you are unfortunate enough to catch somebody’s attention, you’ll be dead. Unless it’s another archer. Javelin is a challenging class, and I like it that way. But we definitely need a little boost somewhere. Make archer classes faster, or make everybody else slower. That’s my opinion.



  • @lileasy1515:

    Does any one else find the fact that, after the patch, you can’t switch to your secondary quickly annoying? I used to be able to throw a jav at a charging vanguard then switch weapons to avoid the “jav reload” slow. now i have to wait the dreadful 60% slow before being able to switch weapon, and i often find my self dead after my first throw. I know that other thrown weapons do not restrict one from switching weapons after thrown. It just makes me sad some times :’(

    I love the patch and what it has done for javelin users. I have the Heavy Javelin unlocked and it is superior. The javelin is strong but is not the main tool for the archer by far.

    I switch between javelin and sword shield regularly and opportunistically. I would advise doing the same :)



  • @Luieburger:

    I’m a new player who just started this week. I don’t know what the pre-patch days were like for Javelin, but Javelin is my favorite class. Depending on the game type, I can be pretty successful as Javelineer.

    Javelin doesn’t do much damage, our ammo is limited, and we get one-shot easily. Personally, I think that’s how it should be.

    However… the thing that annoys me the most is my run speed. I can sprint in a straight line and all the other classes can still catch me and kill me. If I want to retreat, I should be able to retreat. That’s the whole point of being lightly armored. As it stands now, retreating is equal to death for me. That’s why I pull out my sword and board and try to defend myself, but that’s rarely successful.

    Basically, if you are unfortunate enough to catch somebody’s attention, you’ll be dead. Unless it’s another archer. Javelin is a challenging class, and I like it that way. But we definitely need a little boost somewhere. Make archer classes faster, or make everybody else slower. That’s my opinion.

    It’s the chase mechanic in the game. If someone is semi near you, and puts their center dot on you as they chase you. It causes them to speed up and you to slow down. So running is a bad idea, unless you already have good distance on them.



  • @ChuckingIt:

    @Luieburger:

    I’m a new player who just started this week. I don’t know what the pre-patch days were like for Javelin, but Javelin is my favorite class. Depending on the game type, I can be pretty successful as Javelineer.

    Javelin doesn’t do much damage, our ammo is limited, and we get one-shot easily. Personally, I think that’s how it should be.

    However… the thing that annoys me the most is my run speed. I can sprint in a straight line and all the other classes can still catch me and kill me. If I want to retreat, I should be able to retreat. That’s the whole point of being lightly armored. As it stands now, retreating is equal to death for me. That’s why I pull out my sword and board and try to defend myself, but that’s rarely successful.

    Basically, if you are unfortunate enough to catch somebody’s attention, you’ll be dead. Unless it’s another archer. Javelin is a challenging class, and I like it that way. But we definitely need a little boost somewhere. Make archer classes faster, or make everybody else slower. That’s my opinion.

    It’s the chase mechanic in the game. If someone is semi near you, and puts their center dot on you as they chase you. It causes them to speed up and you to slow down. So running is a bad idea, unless you already have good distance on them.

    Yea… they need to get rid of that. Sounds like a horrible mechanic. It certainly defeats the purpose of having light armor.

    Also, the javelineers shield needs to actually work. So many times I have my shield up and ready and I get one-shot anyway. Most worthless shield in the game.



  • @Luieburger:

    Yea… they need to get rid of that. Sounds like a horrible mechanic. It certainly defeats the purpose of having light armor.

    Also, the javelineers shield needs to actually work. So many times I have my shield up and ready and I get one-shot anyway. Most worthless shield in the game.

    It’s actually a great mechanic, if it wasn’t in place archers would be able to kite everyone.

    You should retreat a bit earlier than what you do now. The chase mechanic only activates if they’re ten-ish meters away from you. If you run a bit earlier they’ll never catch up and if you’re good at juking you can use the terrain to break to break their line of sight for just a second or two before you run making them unable to use the chase mechanic.



  • @Ulven:

    @Luieburger:

    Yea… they need to get rid of that. Sounds like a horrible mechanic. It certainly defeats the purpose of having light armor.

    Also, the javelineers shield needs to actually work. So many times I have my shield up and ready and I get one-shot anyway. Most worthless shield in the game.

    It’s actually a great mechanic, if it wasn’t in place archers would be able to kite everyone.

    You should retreat a bit earlier than what you do now. The chase mechanic only activates if they’re ten-ish meters away from you. If you run a bit earlier they’ll never catch up and if you’re good at juking you can use the terrain to break to break their line of sight for just a second or two before you run making them unable to use the chase mechanic.

    The thing you’re forgetting here is that archers should be able to kite anyone. That’s a natural advantage of having light armor. The maps are finite so it’s not like they can run forever. 10 meters is about the max distance for effective javelin throwing considering the ammo limitations. If I’m supposed to turn and run earlier, then I suggest extending our range or getting rid of the post-throw slowdown so I can actually turn and run in time.

    Either that, or make it so I can actually defend myself. I don’t expect to beat people toe to toe, but I do expect to block attacks until friends can come help. As of right now… it’s not possible.



  • @Luieburger:

    The thing you’re forgetting here is that archers should be able to kite anyone. That’s a natural advantage of having light armor.

    No they should not. Being able to kite melee classes who in turn cannot retaliate is not balanced at all, and extremely frustrating for the player being kited.

    Either that, or make it so I can actually defend myself. I don’t expect to beat people toe to toe, but I do expect to block attacks until friends can come help. As of right now… it’s not possible.

    You can defend yourself just fine. Archers can block just as effective as any other class. What makes you think this is impossible?



  • I have no idea why they changed the ammo amount from 7 to 5. It just makes you hug ammo boxes on all maps, which isn’t very fun. 7 was a fine number.



  • Pre-patch: Javelineer was pretty bugged, but certainly very useful.
    Using the advantages it has (fast footwork, longer range + surprise shield attack, ranged attack, people underestimating you) you could easily kill any class you want.
    Archers are dead with one javelin in the body (with the pilum) and the rest can easily be defeated with the weapons at hand in a duel setting.

    After-patch: A lot of the javelin class has changed and takes some getting used to. However this is not really the problem.
    The problems mentioned in this thread, I disagree with;

    • The recovery after a throw has been reduced and to balance it they reduced the number of javelins (so you can’t throw 7 in a row toward an oncoming knight)
    • Low health/armour. Definitely not a problem you even have a shield against multiple enemies. But of course you should die anyway since you shouldn’t be near so much enemies in the first place. Against a single person use the footwork, you have light armour so you can simply circle and evade a lot and time attack to sprint in openings.

    The only problem the latest patch introduced is the buggy shield attack which nobody mentions. It currently behaves more like a butterknife than a shield bash.

    • It rarely registers a hit even though you are within range.
    • Even 1 degree deviation of the reticule (shield still hits visually) and the hit does not registrate.

    It really feels like the shield has been nerfed for some reason (speed decrease nerf I agree with, it was too fast pre-patch), so it behaves like a butterknife.
    It is weird that everybody mentions problems which are not even problems at all, while the one thing ruining the class is ignored by everybody.

    Pre-patch I generally held top-scores and even after patch I played a lot with the pilum (heavy javelin) until I was used to the changes, but in the end I couldn’t bear the frequent shield attacks not landing on the enemy where they would pre-patch. Especially when you see them hit in 3rd person view realizing that it simply does not register.


Log in to reply