Calling all javelineers



  • Although the shield is indeed buggy and I would like to have an option for no shield… it doesn’t make the javelin useless in melee.

    Since the javelin has a little bit of range I rarely use the shield anyway, just step in and out between hits and he will never be able to hit you. At least, it works very well for me 8-)



  • I’m Rank 34.
    Did not read thread, but I’ll pump your face with my opinion.
    Crossbowmen are the new javelineers, since javelineers can’t even be called mid range anymore due to stunning AND slowing themselves when pressing Q or throwing a yavelin (no reason to ever use q as yavelineer). Therefor crossbowmen now make far better mid range archers, and THEY’LL have to use their backstabbing powers to skirmish and flank, since javelins don’t even have anything over the cudgel, and buckler is no better at stopping arrows than a giant shell on your back. Thanks for making my favourite class obsolete : /
    dries tears



  • Wow! Just played with the Javelin for the first time since the patch.

    In my opinion, any change that was made to the Javelin needs to be reverted immediately. I can barely play with this thing now. I’ll take the pre patch Javelin over this nonsense any day… bugs and all.



  • @HEXEN:

    Wow! Just played with the Javelin for the first time since the patch.

    In my opinion, any change that was made to the Javelin needs to be reverted immediately. I can barely play with this thing now. I’ll take the pre patch Javelin over this nonsense any day… bugs and all.

    What bugs did you experience? Because I played with the Javelineer set using your tips when the patch was already active and I played really well with it, I also didn’t experience any bugs so far.



  • More than a few times my Javelin flew right through people, my stab doesn’t connect even with the tip of the spear into the enemies torso… and it just feels off. Way off. It feels like the throw is more delayed after the release of M1, with the stab feeling like it moves through jello. The stab pre-patch felt much quicker, much more precise… this feels disgusting. The charge time for the throw also feels like it’s been increased.

    Don’t get me wrong, it felt bad before, and there are some definite improvements post-patch. They gave us taunts, and a damn cool one too! My Javelin has never become “stuck” in throw or resting position. I can run with my Javelin out, without my sensitivity decreasing (Thank you!) and the Shield seems to work a bit better too. But everything dealing with the attacks of the main weapon, the Javelin, feels much worse to me.

    I can put together a “bad” video I guess. I just don’t enjoy the thought of combing through footage in search of negatives. Really takes the enjoyment away. I guess I should also consider that I may just not be used to all the “new” yet… but there’s definitely still some issues to work out.



  • Haven’t experienced those bugs, but maybe it worked better for me because i never played with them pre-patch, so i didn’t have to adjust my strategy or style. I had to get used to the weapons i use most often after the patch too.

    I also don’t mind all the things people deem the worst about the Javelineer. I think it’s normal that you can’t throw heavy javelins 40 meters or more away in rapid succession, i like the melee with it, stinging dudes in the nipples and i think your tips are still up to date, just had to get used to the weapon the first 2 games. Thanks btw xp



  • I have to ask: what is your average ping?
    I used to play in the larger servers and my ping was ~250ms. I sucked!
    Now I sort servers by ping and, with it being ~60ms, I usually own heavier classes using only footwork.

    Other archers are usually easy, as they rarely give up the bow, so shield block and stab.
    MAA are the trickiest, 'cause dodge can really own my footwork+shield block.
    Vangards are usually dumb players, you just know they’re gonna rush so, sidestep+block and backstab.
    Knights require more stabs, but unless they’re using 1-hander+shield, footwork and side/backstab can end a fight.

    Whenever any of them tries to run away, a nice throw in the back can end the fight.

    TL;DR Choose low ping servers (ping<100ms) and use footwork.



  • @Achilles-:

    It’s absolute bullshit. Playing a Javelin archer as it is now is so unforgiving that they might as well delete them. It’s a class that suck both at Archery and at melee at the same time. I can’t seem to grasp what the developers had in mind for them. Something needs to be done in my opinion, I think giving archers enough HP to survive 2-3 attacks and removing the unnecessary delay on blocking would maybe fix it.

    As a bonus, while we wait for the developers to fix the class, I have decided to write this guide for Archers having trouble who want to be do good in game:

    1. Roll a Vanguard
    2. Bind left mouse button to move forward.
    3. Bind the rest of the Keyboard to “swing attack”
    4. Proceed to hold down LMB while bashing your head against the keyboard.

    Congrats, you have now mastered the game.

    You obviously haven’t played much, or just aren’t very good.
    Javeliners are hard to master, yes, but they are pretty damn good when you are good at them. A good javelin archer is one of the more annoying classes to play against. Yes, still. Do you think they nerfed them just for the hell of it?

    Vg:s are noob friendly in ffa:s, yes, but they are also very easy to play badly. I love noob vg:s coming at me, they are by far the easiest class to kill. Also, now with the buffed arrow speed, it’s damn annoying to be a vg a lot of the time, if you are up against decent archers in team objective. If they have a heavy crossbow, you are usually fecked.



  • @KingOfPolarBears:

    Haven’t experienced those bugs, but maybe it worked better for me because i never played with them pre-patch, so i didn’t have to adjust my strategy or style. I had to get used to the weapons i use most often after the patch too.

    I also don’t mind all the things people deem the worst about the Javelineer. I think it’s normal that you can’t throw heavy javelins 40 meters or more away in rapid succession, i like the melee with it, stinging dudes in the nipples and i think your tips are still up to date, just had to get used to the weapon the first 2 games. Thanks btw xp

    Yeah, I don’t know. I’ll probably adapt and still continue to use them. I just personally liked them better before the patch, probably because I had sunk the time into the setup and learned how to work with them fairly well. The charge and the throw felt quicker and more precise, while the stab felt like it had a greater speed attached to it. I’d rather take a longer reload time over a longer charge time. It just feels entirely different now, and again, I have to completely relearn a weapon I was already comfortable using, even if I had to work around the bugs. I also don’t like the -2 Javelins :|

    Oh well. First world problems. :P



  • @Dr:

    @Achilles-:

    It’s absolute bullshit. Playing a Javelin archer as it is now is so unforgiving that they might as well delete them. It’s a class that suck both at Archery and at melee at the same time. I can’t seem to grasp what the developers had in mind for them. Something needs to be done in my opinion, I think giving archers enough HP to survive 2-3 attacks and removing the unnecessary delay on blocking would maybe fix it.

    As a bonus, while we wait for the developers to fix the class, I have decided to write this guide for Archers having trouble who want to be do good in game:

    1. Roll a Vanguard
    2. Bind left mouse button to move forward.
    3. Bind the rest of the Keyboard to “swing attack”
    4. Proceed to hold down LMB while bashing your head against the keyboard.

    Congrats, you have now mastered the game.

    You obviously haven’t played much, or just aren’t very good.
    Javeliners are hard to master, yes, but they are pretty damn good when you are good at them. A good javelin archer is one of the more annoying classes to play against. Yes, still. Do you think they nerfed them just for the hell of it?

    Vg:s are noob friendly in ffa:s, yes, but they are also very easy to play badly. I love noob vg:s coming at me, they are by far the easiest class to kill. Also, now with the buffed arrow speed, it’s damn annoying to be a vg a lot of the time, if you are up against decent archers in team objective. If they have a heavy crossbow, you are usually fecked.

    And it’s quite clear that you are a skillguard that has never played an Archer and that you know next to nothing about game balance in general.

    A players skill is irrelevant to the overall balance. Just because a good player can do well with a crappy class doesn’t mean that the class anything other than crappy.
    A good game isn’t and shouldn’t be balanced around making it more frustrating, harder and unforgiving to play one class over the other. That is terrible design, and anyone not a moron can see that.

    For the record though, since this forums is a large pissing contest I’d like to state that I do far better then average playing a Javelin Archer usually with a at least a ~3:1 KD ratio depending on if I’m screwing around or not.



  • @Achilles-:

    A players skill is irrelevant to the overall balance. Just because a good player can do well with a crappy class doesn’t mean that the class anything other than crappy.
    A good game isn’t and shouldn’t be balanced around making it more frustrating, harder and unforgiving to play one class over the other. That is terrible design, and anyone not a moron can see that.

    I disagree. I like that certain setups are a bit harder to master than others. The MAA is a perfect example. It’s probably the most unforgiving class when you’re first starting out, but one of the most powerful once you’re an experienced player. Although, making a setup harder just for the hell of it is pretty ridiculous, but if there’s a payoff for that hard work, as with the MAA, then it’s all good as far as I’m concerned.

    The Javelin class, in theory, can be just as effective as any other setup, but it still needs more tweaking… in my opinion anyway. As I said, I actually preferred the pre-patch Javelin over what we have now.



  • .



  • I also preferred the pre-patch javelin with all of it’s glitches over the changes that have been made. I just find everything really frustrating. The new reticle doesn’t help anything, if anything it makes long-range shots harder and the whole thing just feels really weird now. Jav was extremely difficult to get good at before, and I spent close to probably 50 hours training on it to the point where I was actually a formidable threat on the battlefield. I find it almost unplayable now :|



  • @SlyGoat:

    Archers are support. Javelins are not. The problem is, in AoC Javelineer was a separate class from longbow and crossbow. Longbow and crossbow were basically the same class but had different primaries; Javelineer had better mobility than the other archers, and the same armor as a man-at-arms. This made him actually capable of holding his own in melee, because the extra bit of armor prevented a lot of things from killing in one hit, and the extra movement alongside the stronger melee weapon is invaluable.

    Javelins themselves are far weaker than they were in AoC (as are Crossbows) - which is baffling to me, because bows are so much stronger and archers have much better melee weapons as well. Bucklers are also weaker, and the melee javelin is much weaker. AoC Javelineer had a stronger stab with much better range, and a faster, higher damage shield bash - they even had a slash, because ranged javelins were a separate weapon instead of a separate attack, but that isn’t really a positive mark because their slash was terrible and weapon switch times were long. Ranged javelins in AoC had the range of small spears and a higher ammo count, but did slightly more damage than heavy javelins, being able to one shot MaAs and other archers to the body.

    The weaker ranged capabilities I can live with. In my mind the class should be equally ranged and melee focused, or even more melee focused than ranged. Your limited ammo is a sign that it shouldn’t be your primary method of fighting. However, the weaker melee capabilities are absolutely crippling. Obviously it’s hard to directly compare AoC to Chivalry because of all of the changes to the game - but a lot of those changes are actually the reason why Javelins don’t feel as good as they did in AoC, due to the new class setup folding them in with other archers. The way archers work in Chivalry makes them far from ideal to be used as melee fighters at all - meaning javelins serve as low range, low ammo ranged weapons with a slightly more powerful melee backup than regular archers get, and a shield.

    tl;dr - the problem with javelins is they’re a front line/skirmish weapon on a support class. If MaA got javelins, imagine how much better they’d be.

    I agree with this&this&this,@Archilles:

    Javelins are also:
    1. Insanely limited, meaning that after just a couple of throws you might just press F10 and get it over with.
    2. Are pretty much impossible to hit with most of the time, due to the slow projectile.
    3. Have low range, forcing you to either stay too far behind and be useless to your team, or stay in the middle of combat where you are both vulnerable to being one-hit melee and by another archer.
    4. Have quite possibly the most dodgy and badly flowing animation imaginable.
    5. It goes without saying that archers suck in melee, but alas while the Javelin looks like it might be longer it’s still about the same range as the short sword, but on top of that has only one useful attack.



  • @Achilles-:

    @Dr Snuggles:

    @Achilles-:

    It’s absolute bullshit. Playing a Javelin archer as it is now is so unforgiving that they might as well delete them. It’s a class that suck both at Archery and at melee at the same time. I can’t seem to grasp what the developers had in mind for them. Something needs to be done in my opinion, I think giving archers enough HP to survive 2-3 attacks and removing the unnecessary delay on blocking would maybe fix it.

    As a bonus, while we wait for the developers to fix the class, I have decided to write this guide for Archers having trouble who want to be do good in game:

    1. Roll a Vanguard
    2. Bind left mouse button to move forward.
    3. Bind the rest of the Keyboard to “swing attack”
    4. Proceed to hold down LMB while bashing your head against the keyboard.

    Congrats, you have now mastered the game.

    You obviously haven’t played much, or just aren’t very good.
    Javeliners are hard to master, yes, but they are pretty damn good when you are good at them. A good javelin archer is one of the more annoying classes to play against. Yes, still. Do you think they nerfed them just for the hell of it?

    Vg:s are noob friendly in ffa:s, yes, but they are also very easy to play badly. I love noob vg:s coming at me, they are by far the easiest class to kill. Also, now with the buffed arrow speed, it’s damn annoying to be a vg a lot of the time, if you are up against decent archers in team objective. If they have a heavy crossbow, you are usually fecked.

    And it’s quite clear that you are a skillguard that has never played an Archer and that you know next to nothing about game balance in general.

    A players skill is irrelevant to the overall balance. Just because a good player can do well with a crappy class doesn’t mean that the class anything other than crappy.
    A good game isn’t and shouldn’t be balanced around making it more frustrating, harder and unforgiving to play one class over the other. That is terrible design, and anyone not a moron can see that.

    For the record though, since this forums is a large pissing contest I’d like to state that I do far better then average playing a Javelin Archer usually with a at least a ~3:1 KD ratio depending on if I’m screwing around or not.

    I’ve unlocked all weapons and have played as archer plenty after that, thanks. I have even won at ffa:s with an archer (pre-patch), so I think I have an inkling about the class.

    Skill is hardly irrelevant, unless you only play with noobs while you yourself being pro.
    Balance has to do with whether the class fulfills it’s given role well. If you can’t adapt your playing style to suit the class, it’s really not the game’s fault. After the patch, I’ve seen archers leading the scoreboards in objectives (because of kills) quite often, and I’ve very much noticed it’s a complete pain in the ass if the other team has several decent archers and you play as a vg and have bad teammates. By the same token, it’s a pain in the ass to play as an archer with crappy teammates.
    That’s because both classes, to varying degrees, are support classes with specific weakness and specific strengths.

    And javelin archers very much are support, also. Just less so than regular archers (and there even are differences between crossbow and bow in that regard) but they also are significantly better in melee.
    I can tell you that I always go after a non-javelin archer if I have the choice, because that shield is a pain in the ass, especially if he has backup.

    Maybe they went overboard with the nerf, it’s hard to say, but obviously there was a reason for it, and I’m not finding javeliners all that much easier now after the patch, so then again, maybe not.
    It’s very much a skill based class, I find. If you are good at it, you are extremely powerful.



  • Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    I’m gonna eat my words and say my initial impression of the new Javelin was a bit hasty and a knee-jerk reaction. I guess what pissed me off the most is that I had to relearn the weapon, and that influenced my perspective. After sinking some more time into the class, it can be played almost exactly the same way as before the patch… you just have to adjust to it.

    ALL the timings are different, and this was the biggest hurdle I had to overcome, because I was still trying to play the Javelin as it was pre-patch… can you blame me?

    But after getting a handle on all the new timings, the range, the animations… it can still be just as powerful except now, there’s very few bugs. So all in all, I think I was wrong, and I think the Javelin is still pretty powerful once you master it… again. :(

    The only thing that could use some work is the crosshair. I like the new crosshair, but it would be nice if the verticle line was longer and had some notches on it so we could gauge distance better, because it does fall very rapidly.



  • wow this thread took off, well i think that the javs are pretty well balances post patch, the only thing i was suggesting in starting this thread was to allow them to switch weapons during the throw cool down like you were able to do pre-patch, it nice to see every ones opinion tho



  • As someone who has played a lot of Jav, I would like to see the buckler graphic made much smaller in first person. As it stands right now I can see better with the Kite and Heater shields, and that just doesn’t make any sense for the shield that requires the most talented block aim (more so than parry). For what should be the most skill based shield, with a block radius seemingly even smaller than the parry, it shouldn’t take up twice the screen as a Kite shield. If the graphic of the buckler were shrunk down more to resemble it’s actual hitbox, the shield would no longer be useless. I don’t think asking for some skill-based improvement is asking too much, we still have all the disadvantages of the archer, I would just like to be able to see the tip of my enemies weapon a little better and lose fairly to a skilled attacker. That is all a mostly melee class deserves - a chance to not die from something like view obstruction when 80% of enemy weapons can 1 shot you.



  • I think my biggest problem with the Javelin as a weapon would be the inability to lower your javelin from firing position at all.

    First off, it makes little sense that you couldn’t just bring it back down to your side.
    Second, I think it would really alleviate the problem we are seeing with close combat danger the weapon brings to it’s wielder. The javelin is a mid-range weapon with close-range capabilities. I makes sense mechanically why we can’t throw a javelin and quickly switch to the cudgel to clobber someone to death, I agree that would be a little too powerful. BUT, I feel like giving up the throw to ready yourself for close combat would make the loadout a lot more viable.



  • @Ramzin:

    I think my biggest problem with the Javelin as a weapon would be the inability to lower your javelin from firing position at all.

    I think that’s the key to a lot of archer complaints. It’s not a “have your cake and eat it too” thing - asking for insta-switch after you make that one…last…shot is definitely asking too much. A cooldown is fair if you want to risk it.

    But once you’re in mid-pullback, you should be able to cancel out with Q or something if Angry Charging Vanguard darts into your vision. At this point the game almost forces the desperation shot, since you might as well aim if the only option is to shoot.


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