Archers are not snipers just ranged units.



  • This may be far from the first archer thread and this is absolutely not about the over/underpowered debate but rather about the role of the archer.

    I think the way archers are behaving as snipers is wrong, I think this should be changed, not by making them weaker per se but rather by making them less effective from very far and more effective a little closer to the rest of the troops. As it stands in a lot of Objective missions having a lot of archers on your team equals a loss, I would even go as far as most of the time the team with the least archers wins.

    Some ideas to counter this:

    Slight bow sway when holding the bow longer: Holding a longbow drawn is quite hard and getting a good shot from far away with a bow will become a lot harder if you can’t hold it for long without experiencing sway, on the other hand the sway also impacts shorter distances. and does not impact crossbows.

    Stamina drain for having a drawn bow: same as above.

    wind effects on the arrows: makes them less effective at range while not hindering closer shots as much. Crossbows will be hindered less by this. however it will require wind and such to be programmed into the game, this has been done before however.

    I think a good counterweight to this should be decreasing the time needed to draw the bow so they can fire faster shots. This can be done for both regular and crossbows and varying amounts depending on how much they are hindered.



  • “Argers” ? Was that on purpose because they make people go “ARRRRRGGGGG” ? ;)



  • @ReMixx:

    “Argers” ? Was that on purpose because they make people go “ARRRRRGGGGG” ? ;)

    just a typo, fixed. :D



  • If you ask me, what they should do is remove the crosshair completely for both the archer and the crossbowmen.
    I always turn it off, it’s more intuitive but it makes it really hard to snipe from 50 miles away.



  • This is already true. Only crossbows function relatively well at long range. The projectile speed and drop on bows makes it ideal to be in mid range - ideally right behind your front lines in fact, so your melee can easily see enemies coming to flank you, and protect you accordingly. Good archers don’t try to snipe with bows; bad archers do and this is what causes teams with bad archers to lose. Bad melee players will just be suicidal and run into the enemy team alone, so it’s really no different. You just notice the bad archers more, because you run right past them every time you respawn. The bad melee players are never with the team, so you never see them.



  • @SlyGoat:

    ideally right behind your front lines in fact

    Nothing pisses me off more than seeing four agathain archers sitting on the bridges or even the grassy knol outside the barn, trying to pick off the enemy on Battlegrounds map.



  • @SlyGoat:

    This is already true. Only crossbows function relatively well at long range. The projectile speed and drop on bows makes it ideal to be in mid range - ideally right behind your front lines in fact, so your melee can easily see enemies coming to flank you, and protect you accordingly. Good archers don’t try to snipe with bows; bad archers do and this is what causes teams with bad archers to lose. Bad melee players will just be suicidal and run into the enemy team alone, so it’s really no different. You just notice the bad archers more, because you run right past them every time you respawn. The bad melee players are never with the team, so you never see them.

    well if you give them something that makes them shoot less straight they may get the message themselves to.



  • Crossbow and xbow behavior in its acutal state is perfect in my view. I wouldnt change anything!
    If you ever shot more than 1 round with these type of weapon you would have noticed how difficult it “can” be to shoot a moving target. Besides the extremely long reloading of the xbow makes the archer more cautious too.

    In Addition you have a bullet / arrow drop + bullet / arrow velocity which brings a good amount of realism to the game. You also should notice that 1hit kills with bows are only possible if shot directly to the head… which in most cases is VERY uncommon.
    The lacking zoom for the xbow adds more disadvantage to this quite powerful weapon.

    So i think in its current state shooting with both bow types is extremely fun and less “sniping” than some might argue… You have to be really good to kill someone with just one shot. Believe it or not but most of the bow kills are just with shooting intuitively into a group and hoping to hit someone.

    Bow shooting has nothing to do with sniping…

    Regards
    R.



  • @qlum:

    well if you give them something that makes them shoot less straight they may get the message themselves to.

    They won’t. You’re just needlessly hampering the archers who do know how to play.



  • I’ve never really had a problem with archers. Sure they’re annoying sometimes, but a little bit of movement will throw all but the most godly players off. Archers are a problem that is easily solved.

    Anyone who plays like a sniper is stupid. They hardly ever hit anything worthwhile and they’re usually easy targets because they always pick obvious spots.



  • What if you can hit though? I can regularly hit a target moving at a constant speed at long range if he’s not trying to avoid being shot(eg incoming reinforcements), it slows enemy reinforcements or forces them to enter battle wounded(or die if i shoot the same guy twice), thus aiding my team. If i want to go for kills i’ll usually go in closer for faceshots (unless I hit an MAA or archer and one shot them, or get a lucky headshot). It’s all about deciding what function you want to fulfil at the time.



  • I tend to view bow archers as being skirmishers, right behind the front lines, and crossbowmen as snipers and counter-snipers who excel at taking out archers. At least, that’s how I tend to play the classes.

    You can certainly play crossbowmen as skirmishers, though you need balls of steel to peg a charging vanguard or knight at point blank range. But they’re great for putting pressure on archers, and at least taking their attention away from the battlefield.

    I typically main as a man at arms these days, and I love having the support of a good archer. Circling around a target so that a friendly archer is at a 90 degree angle keeps me out of the line of fire, while making my opponent nervous about arrow fire. If he pays no attention to the archer than I can keep him busy while the archer brings him down; if he tries to keep an eye on both of us or rushes the archer, there will be big openings for me to strike. An arrow doesn’t even have to kill - the momentary flinch alone can give me an opening.

    I think a lot of the trouble with archers is that to really contribute to your team you have to be both accurate at range, and confident in melee with your secondary. Again, as a MAA I do a lot of archer rushes, and the ones who panic or try to run are easy pickings. I can sometimes hack through a couple panicky archers even with a knight or vanguard or two chasing me, which is a great way to sew mayhem in the enemy ranks. It’s the archers who draw a knife or sword and stand their ground that mess me up. I still have an edge in a duel, at least in most cases, but they certainly pose a bigger threat and I’ve been brought down by daggers and scimitars more than I’d care to admit. And if an archer is close to the melee, there’s a good chance that one of their near-by teammates has seen me rush past enemy lines and will soon be stabbing me in the behind.

    So, if you’re an archer whose been having trouble racking up kills at range, I also suggest edging a little closer to the battlefield.



  • @The:

    If you ask me, what they should do is remove the crosshair completely for both the archer and the crossbowmen.
    I always turn it off, it’s more intuitive but it makes it really hard to snipe from 50 miles away.

    This brings up an excellent point; why does the game have crosshairs in the first place?

    These shouldn’t even exist. At all.

    You use reference points between your weapons, your environment, and your target, like you would in real life, you aim, you fire/attack, and you will be more or less accurate.

    Yes, even with guns.

    If anything, fix these reference points in-game where possible, particularly for the javelin.



  • @stickytape:

    So, if you’re an archer whose been having trouble racking up kills at range, I also suggest edging a little closer to the battlefield.

    As a melee type who learned to shoot as opposed to an archer who has a secondary weapon, I feel fairly confident knowing that the only difference between an MAA charging me and me is his dodge and speed. Which isn’t a small thing at all, but it doesn’t mean autolose. In fact if i get rushed as an archer i let off that last shot, pull out my shortsword and charge THEM. The less experienced ones often die from shock at seeing an archer on the offensive, and at worst I get a fair fight, as turning and running often gets you killed.



  • @manic:

    @stickytape:

    So, if you’re an archer whose been having trouble racking up kills at range, I also suggest edging a little closer to the battlefield.

    As a melee type who learned to shoot as opposed to an archer who has a secondary weapon, I feel fairly confident knowing that the only difference between an MAA charging me and me is his dodge and speed. Which isn’t a small thing at all, but it doesn’t mean autolose. In fact if i get rushed as an archer i let off that last shot, pull out my shortsword and charge THEM. The less experienced ones often die from shock at seeing an archer on the offensive, and at worst I get a fair fight, as turning and running often gets you killed.

    Yes, I’ve been surprised like that a few times. I’ll rush an archer, dodge a last shot and expect him to at least keep backing up. But sometimes when he pulls a knife and starts trying to rearrange my face, I suddenly remember how long it’s been since I fought someone with a weapon faster than my own. Even killing an MAA once this way can make them think twice about rushing you again, and it can really rattle the inexperienced.



  • @stickytape:

    Yes, I’ve been surprised like that a few times. I’ll rush an archer, dodge a last shot and expect him to at least keep backing up. But sometimes when he pulls a knife and starts trying to rearrange my face, I suddenly remember how long it’s been since I fought someone with a weapon faster than my own. Even killing an MAA once this way can make them think twice about rushing you again, and it can really rattle the inexperienced.

    I’ve made this experience too, maa tend to underestimate you and they don’t have a HP advantage. Bad vanguards and knights are melee able sometimes too, since archers can always facehug and combo them. I even manage to win trades vs better ones or through dancing. In clanmatches, however, I’m dead the second someone reaches me. You just can’t fight guys like dubjay who didn’t ‘waste’ their playtime with bows. Hell I wouldnt even be able to defeat them in knight vs knight, because they learned to dominate duel servers while I learned to lead a good shot, so there’s no chance for an archer to survive in competetive melee combat.
    Still I love to draw my short sword ( I don’t like the stabby weapons) and engage anyone who manages to reach me in a “fair” fight on pubs. No cowardice or backpedal for me.


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