Suggestion to lower the backward walkspeed of Man at Arms



  • People keep saying 1-handers need nerf or whatever, but the possible reason that 1-handers seem a bit strong is the movement speed of MAA. Some say the 1-handers have the disadvantage in the range department, but that range disadvantage disappears when MAA is wielding one. You can clearly feel it when you are using a 1-hander as a Knight. The fast movement speed of MAA allows you to quickly get in the range of longer weapons.

    I don’t think 1-handers are too strong. I also think MAA’s current movement speed is fine.

    But I think you need to decrease the backward walking speed of MAA. He can too easily walk out of a 2-hand weapon swing, blocking if necessary. Sprinting forward and swinging the 2-hand weapon around an MAA is almost impossible because of the fast movement speed.

    Let’s look at the data sheet:

    Class Speeds
    Archer 200 (330 sprint)
    Man-at-Arms 200 (330 sprint)
    Vanguard 190 (314 sprint)
    Knight 180 (297 sprint)
    Archer Strafe/Back 160/160
    Man-at-Arms Strafe/Back 180/170
    Vanguard Strafe/Back 162/152
    Knight Strafe/Back 153/144

    MAA has the fastest backward movement speed. Putting MAA’s speed on par with Archer seems to be a good start in my opinion. Strafe to 170 and backward speed to 160.

    TLDR; MAA’s backward movement speed is too fast right now, allowing MAA to easily walk out of 2-handers range. People need to use dash if they want to escape a swing.



  • I really have no issue with it dueling vs MAAs. You shouldn’t be throwing at swings at them without a purpose anyway.

    All you’re suggesting is making the MAA less mobile and all I can ask is why.



  • @MUSASHI:

    I really have no issue with it dueling vs MAAs. You shouldn’t be throwing at swings at them without a purpose anyway.

    I’m not talking about duels. I’m talking everything in general. MAA already has a free teleport to escape enemy swings. Having fastest backward movement speed doens’t seem right.



  • The MAA can’t do anything vs the current meta of shields/polearms. All his offensive options are directly linked to his mobility and backwards walking speed is a part of that.



  • @MUSASHI:

    The MAA can’t do anything vs the current meta of shields/polearms.

    Just because you can’t kill shields doesn’t mean MAA sucks.

    You shouldn’t have a problem fighting 1v1. It’s when you jump into a group fight MAA dies quickly. But you shouldn’t be fighting in groups anyway.



  • Sigh my main class is MAA. I also play every other class proficiently.

    MAA being able to backpedal out of swings is fine and it’s a part of the makeup of the class.

    But you shouldn’t be fighting in groups anyway.

    Ok I guess you’re clueless. I have no problems pubstomping with MAA.



  • @MUSASHI:

    Sigh my main class is MAA. I also play every other class proficiently.

    MAA being able to backpedal out of swings is fine and it’s a part of the makeup of the class.

    But you shouldn’t be fighting in groups anyway.

    Ok I guess you’re clueless. I have no problems pubstomping with MAA.

    Who says? You designed the game?

    I play every class proficiently too. My main is MAA too. Everytime someone misses their swings because I just walk out of swings, I say to myself ‘this is ridiculous’

    You just don’t want MAA to be nerfed because you are pubstomping with it. People didn’t want the double stab combo to be fixed either. Some people quit the game because of that.

    Archer is difficult. Vanguard is a little easier than archer. Knight and MAA is just easy.



  • Well you really don’t understand some things.

    Here’s something important.

    1.As of the recent patch you cannot dodge while sprinting.
    2.You cannot dodge AS FAST as you previously could on the release build because of a cool down that was added.

    The only reason I am fine with that is because if I know the relative spacing of every weapon I face in this game I can bait a stab/swing/overhead dodge in for a quick offense and dodge out. The reason that this is effective is because in a 3v1 or any matchup where you are outnumbered you cannot over commit because you will be quickly outpositioned by better players.

    Dodging is not stamina free. Considering against good player you will also have to add feints into your offense which also costs stamina. You can see how quickly you will run out and how quickly stamina preservation is IMPORTANT in team fights/scrims.

    It’s fine, backpedaling out of a swing or poor attack is not only a MAA exclusive tactic. It’s EASIER as MAA because MAA’s trait is mobility. Which was already slightly nerfed.(Two counts in fact. Sprint Dodging removed. and Dodge CD)

    Also I pubstomp with every class does that mean anything no? Am I trying to imply that means anything? No. I am simply saying that in a competitive aspect it’s fine and I’ll even go so far as to say the MAA should be EVEN MORE mobile. Which means bringing back sprint dodging and removing the cooldown.

    Let me also add that the reason MAA has a greater backpedal speed than the archer is because the archer is not designed to skirmish like the MAA. Hence the reason the archers sprint is on par with the MAA’s. Because the developers assume that most archers would simply sprint away from melee engagements. MAA’s backpedal speed allows him to disengage while facing his opponents which is an important concept to realize.



  • @MUSASHI:

    Well you really don’t understand some things.

    Here’s something important.

    1.As of the recent patch you cannot dodge while sprinting.

    The only reason I am fine with that is because if I know the relative spacing of every weapon I face in this game I can bait a stab/swing/overhead dodge in for a quick offense and dodge out. The reason that this is effective is because in a 3v1 or any matchup where you are outnumbered you cannot over commit because you will be quickly outpositioned by better players.

    Dodging is not stamina free. Considering against good player you will also have to add feints into your offense which also costs stamina. You can see how quickly you will run out and how quickly stamina preservation is IMPORTANT in team fights/scrims.

    It’s fine, backpedaling out of a swing or poor attack is not only a MAA exclusive tactic. It’s EASIER as MAA because MAA’s trait is mobility. Which was already slightly nerfed.

    Also I pubstomp with every class does that mean anything no? Am I trying to imply that means anything? No. I am simply saying that in a competitive aspect it’s fine and I’ll even go so far as to say the MAA should be EVEN MORE mobile. Which means bringing back sprint dodging and removing the cooldown.

    You can sprint while walking backward? Wow what a news! Oh you were talking about running forward. Wait, what’s the topic here? That’s right! Walking ‘backwards’

    I’m fine with MAA dashing backwards. It’s the central design of the class and people need to use it consciously more instead of mindlessly holding ‘S’ and getting out of range easily. I want to put more effort into playing MAA than just move fast and slash people. Right now, I’m just running around and rampaging on the battlefield.

    Next, Dodging is not free but it doesn’t cost too much. When you are fighting as MAA, you shouldn’t be fighting with low stamina anyways. You can engage/disengage fights very easily. I don’t have any problem dashing around in the field and regening and coming back to fight.

    Finally, MAA’s job isn’t to fight every single class in the game. He’s there to flank the enemy and hopefully get behind enemy lines. This is even more evident in scrims and competitive matches. I am fine with MAA being able to sprint dash but there needs to be cooldown on it, unless you make the dash animation slower than right now. Right now, MAA is just blinking around. This isn’t a MMO. It’s supposed to be somewhat true to medieval combat. People don’t teleport around.

    @MUSASHI:

    Let me also add that the reason MAA has a greater backpedal speed than the archer is because the archer is not designed to skirmish like the MAA. Hence the reason the archers sprint is on par with the MAA’s. Because the developers assume that most archers would simply sprint away from melee engagements. MAA’s backpedal speed allows him to disengage while facing his opponents which is an important concept to realize.

    Yes, then they need to lower both Archer and MAA’s backward movement speed so MAA is slightly faster.



  • you can sprint while walking backward? Wow what a news! Oh you were talking about running forward. Wait, what’s the topic here? That’s right! Walking ‘backwards’

    Here’s where you continue to show your utter ignorance about the game’s general mechanics. I was not talking about sprinting while walking backwards because you can’t do that. You have to turn the other way. I’m trying to explain to you the MAA’s role(a skirmisher) and the importance that he remain mobile while disengaging WITHOUT turning his back. Without this it becomes harder to exploit openings where you can turn a fight around. This means not nerfing backward walk speed.

    I’m fine with MAA dashing backwards. It’s the central design of the class and people need to use it consciously more instead of mindlessly holding ‘S’ and getting out of range easily. I want to put more effort into playing MAA than just move fast and slash people. Right now, I’m just running around and rampaging on the battlefield.

    Congratulations. Now do that vs an actual team. Pubstomping means little about the mechanics of classes because I can go on any server and go 42-9 with the fork. Does that mean the fork is the best polearm and should be nerfed on par with others? Nope. Even the most skilled MAA’s don’t top the scoreboard in scrims sometimes I WONDER why.

    Next, Dodging is not free but it doesn’t cost too much. When you are fighting as MAA, you shouldn’t be fighting with low stamina anyways. You can engage/disengage fights very easily. I don’t have any problem dashing around in the field and regening and coming back to fight.

    WOW! me neither but the context isn’t a pub game. In a competitive game you don’t have the freedom to be a jackass like that. Especially in TO where you have to commit to a strategic offense. This is where its important to utilize spacing and unfortunately you ARE going to be fighting without stamina A LOT.

    Finally, MAA’s job isn’t to fight every single class in the game. He’s there to flank the enemy and hopefully get behind enemy lines. This is even more evident in scrims and competitive matches. I am fine with MAA being able to sprint dash but there needs to be cooldown on it, unless you make the dash animation slower than right now. Right now, MAA is just blinking around. This isn’t a MMO. It’s supposed to be somewhat true to medieval combat. People don’t teleport around.

    Uhh this game isn’t supposed to be realistic. You realize there’s another class similar and probably where Torn Banner got inspiration from? It’s called the Scout from TF2.

    Yes, then they need to lower both Archer and MAA’s backward movement speed so MAA is slightly faster

    You realize that the other classes can press sprint and initiate sticky back if you turn to run right? I’m talking about the speed penalty for being chased.



  • The dodge isn’t free by any means. In order to hit most spear vanguards I have to first block or dodge away from a thrust, then dodge in, start a swing and feint, then land an actual hit, and either follow it up with another strike or dodge backwards, depending on how the vanguard has reacted. There goes almost all my energy.

    MAA can’t 1-hit kill anyone, have minimal armor, small shields, and about 1/3rd the reach of a Vanguard. In exchange they get a dodge, and can move a whopping 10% faster than most other classes. What you’re asking is that MAA keep only the dodge.

    If anyone is really struggling against MAA, I’m happy to give out some pointers about what kills me best.



  • @MUSASHI:

    Here’s where you continue to show your utter ignorance about the game’s general mechanics. I was not talking about sprinting while walking backwards because you can’t do that. You have to turn the other way. I’m trying to explain to you the MAA’s role(a skirmisher) and the importance that he remain mobile while disengaging WITHOUT turning his back. Without this it becomes harder to exploit openings where you can turn a fight around. This means not nerfing backward walk speed.

    Congratulations. Now do that vs an actual team. Pubstomping means little about the mechanics of classes because I can go on any server and go 42-9 with the fork. Does that mean the fork is the best polearm and should be nerfed on par with others? Nope.

    WOW! me neither but the context isn’t a pub game. In a competitive game you don’t have the freedom to be a jackass like that. Especially in TO where you have to commit to a strategic offense. This is where its important to utilize spacing and unfortunately you ARE going to be fighting without stamina A LOT.

    Uhh this game isn’t supposed to be realistic.

    You realize that the other classes can press sprint and initiate sticky back if you turn to run right? I’m talking about the speed penalty for being chased.

    what’s your steamid?

    I love it when stupid people don’t get sarcasm. I didn’t say you are stupid. Just people who don’t get sarcasm are stupid.

    You keep saying I’m ignorant about the game mechanic, so please. Take a look at my thread:
    http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6347

    Are you in any clan? I’ve been in clan matches before. I’ve gotten many requests from clan members to join them but I declined. I don’t know why you keep talking with competitive match in mind when there hasn’t been one. It’s all just scrims and people are still trying to figure out the best way to win.

    I also said ‘somewhat true to medieval combat’ You think I meant 'realistic

    We clearly both know very well about the game (I have 300 hours on it). You are not the only one who knows about the game.

    But I got your voice. I want backward speed be lowered slightly, and you don’t want to. That’s it. So stop posting derogatory comments.



  • @stickytape:

    The dodge isn’t free by any means. In order to hit most spear vanguards I have to first block or dodge away from a thrust, then dodge in, start a swing and feint, then land an actual hit, and either follow it up with another strike or dodge backwards, depending on how the vanguard has reacted. There goes almost all my energy.

    MAA can’t 1-hit kill anyone, have minimal armor, small shields, and about 1/3rd the reach of a Vanguard. In exchange they get a dodge, and can move a whopping 10% faster than most other classes. What you’re asking is that MAA keep only the dodge.

    If anyone is really struggling against MAA, I’m happy to give out some pointers about what kills me best.

    No I’m not asking to only keep the dodge. What I want to be done is balacing across the board.

    Look at the facts. MAA’s backward movement speed is 170. Vanguard 152. Knight 144. If you lower MAA’s backward movement speed to 160, it wouldn’t matter as much except that you can’t really get out of the 2-handers as before. You will still be able to barely escape. Even with 160 movement speed, MAA is faster than other classes.

    Problems:
    1-hander with shield is clearly better than 2-handers because it is easier to deal with feints, and because they are much faster. Range issue is nonexistent because forward movement speed is faster than backward movement speed.

    If we lower MAA’s backward movement speed, it wouldn’t change the gameplay that much, except that now as MAA, you need to either; 1)turn around and sprint, or 2)dash backwards.

    I want MAA to commit to a fight and be forced to fight/block, so that MAAs need to make more conscious and better decisions.

    Archer is the most difficult to play well, then Vanguard has a hard time staying alive (no shield). MAA and Knight are plain easy to play. We need to make these last two classes harder to play. But it’s because of the shields, so once they do something about shields, we would be in a better place.



  • @boomandvibe:

    Look at the facts. MAA’s backward movement speed is 170. Vanguard 152. Knight 144. If you lower MAA’s backward movement speed to 160, it wouldn’t matter as much except that you can’t really get out of the 2-handers as before. You will still be able to barely escape. Even with 160 movement speed, MAA is faster than other classes.

    I’m opposed to this suggestion as well.

    I don’t know what the actual numbers are, but if they are what you say they are, then a MAA’s backpedaling speed of 170 is already completely nullified by even the slowest walking speed (180) of all the other classes (not to mention their sprinting speeds).

    This “imbalance” is already remedied by moving forward as the MAA moves backward.

    You seem to be asking that MAA not be fast enough to be able to move out of range of a strike made by a static target. I don’t see this as fitting in with the idea of being the most agile class.

    @boomandvibe:

    I want MAA to commit to a fight and be forced to fight/block, so that MAAs need to make more conscious and better decisions.

    @boomandvibe:

    MAA and Knight are plain easy to play. We need to make these last two classes harder to play. But it’s because of the shields, so once they do something about shields, we would be in a better place.

    :lolz:
    To both of these I say, pick up a firepot and play without a shield. Whatever your opinion of shield players may be, I don’t expect that shields are going to be going away.

    Attempting to make a class more difficult to play by nerfing it because you find it too easy is a bit ridiculous; especially when you ignore both classes’ ability to be played without shields.

    Again, pick up a firepot and enjoy not being able to dodge / block while holding it as you are charged and attempt to utilize your superior backpedaling speed in an effort to try and put enough space between yourself and your attacker just to be able to get rid of the firepot in time to block and not burn yourself.

    It’s sort of like being a potentially self-immolating 1 shot archer.



  • MAA speed is fine as it is, there’s no reason it should be a sitting duck for 2h.
    It’s the least played class of the game, if you want to nerf it, you might as well ask for the class to be removed.



  • @boomandvibe:

    Let’s look at the data sheet:

    Class Speeds
    Archer 200 (330 sprint)
    Man-at-Arms 200 (330 sprint)
    Vanguard 190 (314 sprint)
    Knight 180 (297 sprint)
    Archer Strafe/Back 160/160
    Man-at-Arms Strafe/Back 180/170
    Vanguard Strafe/Back 162/152
    Knight Strafe/Back 153/144

    The MaA’s backpedaling speed is slower than the knights walking speed. Where’s the problem again?



  • @MUSASHI:

    The MAA can’t do anything vs the current meta of shields/polearms. All his offensive options are directly linked to his mobility and backwards walking speed is a part of that.

    True Dat
    Taking Mobility away defeats the purpose of the MAA class

    Thats like saying, take away the Achers bow&arrows



  • If anything I’d say other classes could use an increase to their strafe/back speed, particularly archer strafing and VG backpeddaling.

    The numbers that aren’t shown here are chase speeds (because we aren’t entirely sure how much chasing modifies movement), which factors in to combat forward speed as well. You can’t sprint backwards, and chase speed only benefits you when sprinting with your cursor aimed at an enemy, so all classes actually move very significantly faster towards an enemy than the MaA can backpeddal away.

    The better tactic by far is to dodge backwards and then sprint forwards for a counter because you get to take proper advantage of chase speed. So I don’t really think of backpeddaling as a problem.


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