Fixing Vanguard's charge attack.



  • As if right now, the Vanguard’s charge attack is largely ineffective, clunky, and downright harmful to the user when it is used over more safer, and even effective, attacks such as the overhead or stab. It has this extremely awkward jump that really throws of one’s aim and is hard to control what you want to do with it, leading to complete misses, overshoots, and TKing when it doesn’t work. I’ve found that the much safer, and much more powerful, move to use over it is the overhand swing which in my experience, seems to do more damage that the charge attack. Especially noticeable with the 2handed swords. At best the charge attack works decently with the spear weapons and halberds, given that the stab is easier to aim, but it still performs this extremely clunky jump-attack that is completely unnecessary.

    My solution is to first, remove the jump motion in the charge. Replace it with a burst of speed instead, so you can control the aim of your swing and the arc of your weapon to a greater degree. Secondly, ensure that it does at least as much damage as a simple overhead, if not a little more given the limitations of having to charge up this attack that is supposedly an advantage for the class to have.



  • I frequent the vanguard class. I would say I like the idea about the burst of speed. From my experience I usually reserve the charge attack for unexpecting oppents because the risk for block is low.



  • The existence of the Vanguard’s charge attack has some pros and cons, I’ve certainly noticed. With the 2-handed swords it is almost useless because it deals the same damage as a regular slash. However, with the spears and halberd-type weapons it can deal some nice damage.

    But what many people fail to realize (because the game does absolutely nothing to explain it) is that the Vanguard’s secondary weapons are absolutely devastating when used with a sprinting attack. In particular, the War Axe sprint attack can 1-shot an Archer or Man-At-Arms with ease, and can even decapitate another Vanguard from full health.

    This really doesn’t make all that much sense from a realism perspective, but I really like how it affects the gameplay. Without this mechanic the Vanguard would have very little reason to actually pull out his 1-hander, and charging an archer with your War Axe raised above your head, screaming like a berserker is absolutely exhilarating.

    You can view the damage of all the sprinting attacks here:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … TZnc#gid=1



  • @Rognik:

    Without this mechanic the Vanguard would have very little reason to actually pull out his 1-hander

    I and everyone in my party use always the dane axe for all lighter classes ( maa / archer) because it devastes them while it matches their speed. Archer especially have almost no chance against the dane axe, so there is enough reason to use secondaries ^^

    However I’ve got to try actually charge with it. It seemed like a good idea but then I got discouraged by how bad the charge overall performs.



  • @Escadin:

    I and everyone in my party use always the dane axe for all lighter classes ( maa / archer) because it devastes them while it matches their speed. Archer especially have almost no chance against the dane axe, so there is enough reason to use secondaries ^^

    However I’ve got to try actually charge with it. It seemed like a good idea but then I got discouraged by how bad the charge overall performs.

    Trust me, you want to be using the War Axe for sprinting attacks. The Dane Axe will not 1-shot anyone unless they are low on health or you hit them in the head, which is pretty much just luck.

    Probably my most satisfying moment yet with the Vanguard was getting chased by a Man-At-Arms, spinning around and almost instantly killing him with my sprint attack. He had no chance.

    Edit: Actually, the Hatchet is also pretty good, but it can’t 1-shot Vanguards with a headshot. Otherwise it will still kill Men-At-Arms and Archers just as well.



  • I agree the charge is stupid and a waste of time, it virtually does nothing if “blocked”, does little to nothing on Heavys, 50% at best in killing archers in one hit, No real aiming ability then after the charge my screen is always looking at the ground, it is a totally waste of time energy and stam. Just give me back my one hit archer in the head and I will be happy. Missing the charge is deadly, why even risk it when even attacking from behind does not kill in one hit? It is beyond stupid. Horrible choice in game design if you ask me, one of many but this one almost tops the cake with the exception of Archers having OP melee capabilities. Now that is beyond retarded.



  • Archers having OP melee abilities? Which game are you playing?



  • My solution is to just remove the ability from the game, or, allow the player to turn it off.

    In my opinion, the real benefit from playing the Vanguard comes with his unique weapons and his speed, not the derp charge attack.

    It’s gotten me killed so many times… :(



  • @manic:

    Archers having OP melee abilities? Which game are you playing?

    Obviously you have not been playing the same game I am or against the same skill level. The Cudgel does retarded damage incredibly fast. The spam dagger stab will kill a Vanguard in two-three stabs less if the archer got in an arrow. Archer daggers effectively block any heavy weapon then stab spam… I have seen archers take on 3 heavy classes in melee and take all three of them out many times… So yeah, what game are you playing?

    Back to the topic at hand, The charge has also gotten me killed far too many times as you cannot really aim it after you start your attack. It does no damage if blocked (I should be like the kick in that you cannot block it but if you block in time, you still take some damage not just a blow back and a pause). It rarely kills an archer with one hit. It takes way too much stam and leaves you vulnerable for the benefit not to mention the lag between two Vanguards charging at the same time while the server decides who get the most damage. I barely use it because it isnt worth it. The wind up takes way too long, rarely works right on command. It is a total failed idea. Good in concept, bad in execution. Without the ability to accurately control or aim it on the fly, it is useless.



  • @Retsnom:

    @manic:

    Archers having OP melee abilities? Which game are you playing?

    Obviously you have not been playing the same game I am or against the same skill level. The Cudgel does retarded damage incredibly fast. The spam dagger stab will kill a Vanguard in two-three stabs less if the archer got in an arrow. Archer daggers effectively block any heavy weapon then stab spam… I have seen archers take on 3 heavy classes in melee and take all three of them out many times… So yeah, what game are you playing?

    Back to the topic at hand, The charge has also gotten me killed far too many times as you cannot really aim it after you start your attack. It does no damage if blocked (I should be like the kick in that you cannot block it but if you block in time, you still take some damage not just a blow back and a pause). It rarely kills an archer with one hit. It takes way too much stam and leaves you vulnerable for the benefit not to mention the lag between two Vanguards charging at the same time while the server decides who get the most damage. I barely use it because it isnt worth it. The wind up takes way too long, rarely works right on command. It is a total failed idea. Good in concept, bad in execution. Without the ability to accurately control or aim it on the fly, it is useless.

    Being an archer who also knows these things, I know how to couter stab spam as well. Not difficult. Just learn to not panic when they do that.

    As for lunge, yes it gets people killed more often than anyhing else. I love when a vanguard does that cos he’s asking for an arrow to the face.


Log in to reply