Ideas to solve the TK epidemic!



  • In the past I haven’t really had a problem with getting TK’d, all part of the experience I told myself. Recently though i’ve been getting TK’d from all angles.

    -Killing a knight with a saber, no health left - BOOM, arrow from my own team wipes me out.
    -Dueling 1v1 - BOOM, spamfesting noob Vanguard from my own team comes in swings and rips my head off.
    -I’m also getting killed by friendly arrows when im standing by myself with enemies yards away.

    Makes me wonder, is the punishment really severe enough for mass TK’ers? The way it’s set up currently, the only guy that is getting punished is the victim because he’s sent straight back to spawn while his killer can keep on going like he’s done nothing wrong. You see the odd apology “sry” but that doesn’t really cut it…

    I was thinking, wouldn’t it be fairer if the TK’er is sent back to spawn as well? Every TK adds 5 seconds onto his spawn time or whatever. The score system is pretty much cosmetic because all it does is level you up. Also, why do friendly deaths add to your death score too? Aren’t points taken away from you for every death? I’m too sure on that one though.

    Anyone got any ideas/suggestions?



  • Friendlies don’t add to your score, do they? At least not that I’ve noticed…

    I don’t think additional punishment is necessary for TKers; killing a teammate is already punishment enough for a team - adding more punishment won’t necessarily stop TKing, and may wind up causing even more aggravation for the rest of the team.

    I only very, very rarely get hit with a friendly ranged weapon. Probably over 90% of my friendly deaths are from knights and vanguards; mostly vanguards, due to their long reach. Often it seems that they have so little faith in my ability as an MAA to kill someone that they’ll “help out” by swinging needlessly, or stabbing straight through a guy, hitting me on the other side.

    When I’m outnumbered I sometimes try to maneuver my opponents so that they’re bound to hit each other (you’d be surprised how often moving between them and ducking works!) and I wonder how many other people out there are doing the same thing, trying to provoke friendly fire.

    And a lot of my TK deaths are my own fault, for going where I shouldn’t be, taking unnecessary risks, or getting tunnel vision while in an intense fight. Some weapons are incredibly slow, and I’m very fast - it’s easy for me to move into a swing that had no business hitting me until I practically headbutted the weapon. They can’t be blamed for that, and shouldn’t be punished for it.

    Basically, it’s a really tricky situation. War is messy, and Chivalry intentionally keeps it that way. I think TKing is just a part of the game. I don’t mean to encourage it by any means, but I think adding additional punishment just makes the whole situation that much more negative and frustrating.



  • @stickytape:

    Friendlies don’t add to your score, do they? At least not that I’ve noticed…

    I don’t think additional punishment is necessary for TKers; killing a teammate is already punishment enough for a team - adding more punishment won’t necessarily stop TKing, and may wind up causing even more aggravation for the rest of the team.

    I only very, very rarely get hit with a friendly ranged weapon. Probably over 90% of my friendly deaths are from knights and vanguards; mostly vanguards, due to their long reach. Often it seems that they have so little faith in my ability as an MAA to kill someone that they’ll “help out” by swinging needlessly, or stabbing straight through a guy, hitting me on the other side.

    When I’m outnumbered I sometimes try to maneuver my opponents so that they’re bound to hit each other (you’d be surprised how often moving between them and ducking works!) and I wonder how many other people out there are doing the same thing, trying to provoke friendly fire.

    And a lot of my TK deaths are my own fault, for going where I shouldn’t be, taking unnecessary risks, or getting tunnel vision while in an intense fight. Some weapons are incredibly slow, and I’m very fast - it’s easy for me to move into a swing that had no business hitting me until I practically headbutted the weapon. They can’t be blamed for that, and shouldn’t be punished for it.

    Basically, it’s a really tricky situation. War is messy, and Chivalry intentionally keeps it that way. I think TKing is just a part of the game. I don’t mean to encourage it by any means, but I think adding additional punishment just makes the whole situation that much more negative and frustrating.

    I agree with everything said here. Very rarely are TKs on purpose and punishing the person for it will not change anything. I would have to image in real battles this happened a lot also.



  • @ScRaPaZz:

    @stickytape:

    Friendlies don’t add to your score, do they? At least not that I’ve noticed…

    I don’t think additional punishment is necessary for TKers; killing a teammate is already punishment enough for a team - adding more punishment won’t necessarily stop TKing, and may wind up causing even more aggravation for the rest of the team.

    I only very, very rarely get hit with a friendly ranged weapon. Probably over 90% of my friendly deaths are from knights and vanguards; mostly vanguards, due to their long reach. Often it seems that they have so little faith in my ability as an MAA to kill someone that they’ll “help out” by swinging needlessly, or stabbing straight through a guy, hitting me on the other side.

    When I’m outnumbered I sometimes try to maneuver my opponents so that they’re bound to hit each other (you’d be surprised how often moving between them and ducking works!) and I wonder how many other people out there are doing the same thing, trying to provoke friendly fire.

    And a lot of my TK deaths are my own fault, for going where I shouldn’t be, taking unnecessary risks, or getting tunnel vision while in an intense fight. Some weapons are incredibly slow, and I’m very fast - it’s easy for me to move into a swing that had no business hitting me until I practically headbutted the weapon. They can’t be blamed for that, and shouldn’t be punished for it.

    Basically, it’s a really tricky situation. War is messy, and Chivalry intentionally keeps it that way. I think TKing is just a part of the game. I don’t mean to encourage it by any means, but I think adding additional punishment just makes the whole situation that much more negative and frustrating.

    I agree with everything said here. Very rarely are TKs on purpose and punishing the person for it will not change anything. I would have to image in real battles this happened a lot also.

    I imagine real medival soldiers would have the discipline to leave some space around each individuum once the lines break into a clash. However friendly fire was probably back then and certainly is today a real issue. ^^
    Unintended Tk doesn’t need more punishment but intended does since you sometimes are not given a chance to votekick them out before it turns your match into a lose (e.g. purposly tk the king, even if it doesn’t kill, it mostly breaks the defence).
    So how about some penalty after a certain amount of teamdamage or consecutive teamkills? Wouldn’t change anything for the occasional accident but it would deal with dedicated saboteurs and I don’t think it’s a big deal to implement as damage is already tracked by the game.



  • I personally think there should be a bigger penalty, how can a player killing a lot of enemies but also a lot of allies still be the top scorer, I think the penalty for a team kill should be
    30 points and you should get the death on your death counter instead of your ally even if k/d doesn’t matter much it matters for some and I think its only fair that someone sloppy enough to kill his team mates should get the penalty for his death.



  • I also agree TK’ing should be punished more. Additional seconds added to spawn time sounds quite good, as does being sent back to the spawn point. There will always be accidental TK’s so maybe the first 2 shouldn’t count, but I think that 800 years ago, if some joker just wildly swung his halberd around him, decapitating his fellow warriors, he would not last long and would fall to intentional FF himself :) .

    Besides the fact that just swinging your two-handed weapon endlessly will usually win you the fight, TK’s (or rather the people making them) are one of the most frustrating aspects of this game.



  • Having a delayed spawn wouldn’t make much sense in modes like LTS. But a more severe penalty in score could be something. I wouldn’t mind if you lost 50 points (ten times as much as you do now) if you teamkill someone.

    People who don’t intentionally teamkill or who are just clumsy should have no problems getting a positive score still.



  • @ScRaPaZz:

    @stickytape:

    Friendlies don’t add to your score, do they? At least not that I’ve noticed…

    I don’t think additional punishment is necessary for TKers; killing a teammate is already punishment enough for a team - adding more punishment won’t necessarily stop TKing, and may wind up causing even more aggravation for the rest of the team.

    I only very, very rarely get hit with a friendly ranged weapon. Probably over 90% of my friendly deaths are from knights and vanguards; mostly vanguards, due to their long reach. Often it seems that they have so little faith in my ability as an MAA to kill someone that they’ll “help out” by swinging needlessly, or stabbing straight through a guy, hitting me on the other side.

    When I’m outnumbered I sometimes try to maneuver my opponents so that they’re bound to hit each other (you’d be surprised how often moving between them and ducking works!) and I wonder how many other people out there are doing the same thing, trying to provoke friendly fire.They need to be punished and severely if there is any chance to put some sense into these people.

    And a lot of my TK deaths are my own fault, for going where I shouldn’t be, taking unnecessary risks, or getting tunnel vision while in an intense fight. Some weapons are incredibly slow, and I’m very fast - it’s easy for me to move into a swing that had no business hitting me until I practically headbutted the weapon. They can’t be blamed for that, and shouldn’t be punished for it.

    Basically, it’s a really tricky situation. War is messy, and Chivalry intentionally keeps it that way. I think TKing is just a part of the game. I don’t mean to encourage it by any means, but I think adding additional punishment just makes the whole situation that much more negative and frustrating.

    I agree with everything said here. Very rarely are TKs on purpose and punishing the person for it will not change anything. I would have to image in real battles this happened a lot also.

    It definitely should be punished, sometimes you see 3 or 4 friendlies spamming swings at just one enemy, needless to say 1 or 2 of them would end up killed by the other team mates. When I see a duel I get near the enemy just to scare him off and confuse him, but I dont usually attack unless my team mate is getting killed.The probelm is that a lot of people are careless, most of them dont even apologize even after team killing more than 2 players in a single match.



  • Players should just be automatically temp banned from a server if they manage to deal x damage within y time.



  • All you need is a simple forgive/punish system, enough people hitting punish and you get kicked. It doesn’t matter if it’s intentional or not, intent doesn’t alter the fact you were swinging like a moron wounding and killing your team.

    I don’t know the logical soundness of saying “I don’t think additional punishment is necessary for TKers; killing a teammate is already punishment enough for a team - adding more punishment won’t necessarily stop TKing, and may wind up causing even more aggravation for the rest of the team.”

    In fact it makes no sense, the reason there needs to be punishment, is because the team is being punished and the guilty individual isn’t, outside of his individual score, which is of no consequence.

    A punishment system enforced by the community would make the game better, people wouldn’t be swinging like raging idiots and the game would be more fun if people were more careful about not killing friendlies.

    With a forgive/punish system you let the community and the aggrieved party decide whether something was an honest and forgivable offense, or someone being an asshat or just not caring who they hit.

    If 5 people punish you in a single round, you deserved to be kicked from that game. Arguing against the punishment of tker’s makes no sense and makes me question the motives or at least the thought process of those opposed to it.



  • Best and fairest solution I can think of is when a player presses the LMB within the vicinity of a team-mate it instantly bans their steam account for life.



  • As a relatively new player to the game I occasionally take the head off one of my own team mates but it’s never intentional. Some times team mates will move INTO my path while I’m mid-swing so I can’t really be blamed for that. I’ve learned to move my cursor to a safe spot when someone runs into my swing and it usually results in not hitting them. People also need to chill out when getting TK’d. Yeah it sucks but it happens and as long as the person doesn’t keep doing it there’s no reason to get upset.

    I think people also need to be a bit smarter on how to go 2 or 3 on 1. When I’m in that situation, if the target is focused on me, I’ll try to maneuver so as to expose his back to my team mate to give them an open shot while I just block/parry. When my team mate lands a blow I’ll go in for a quick stab while he’s stunned. Another thing I do is try not to get involved when there’s 2 or more team mates already on a target. And finally, lay off the LMB attacks. Stick to thrusts and overheads, thrusts preferably imo.



  • Teamkills are an integral part of the game. Learning to play the other team against themselves when you’re against multiple enemies is a key strategy, and learning how to position yourself to not hit your teammates in the reverse situation is too.

    I actually had a whole guide about positioning and friendly fire back on the old AoC forums, because IMO it’s the most important element to learn in the entire game. Punishing players because they haven’t mastered positioning - or even because you haven’t mastered positioning and are getting in the way of their strikes without realizing it - isn’t acceptable as far as I’m concerned. Slaying your teammates or making their respawn times longer because they accidentally killed you does nothing but put your team back even further.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Teamkills are an integral part of the game. Learning to play the other team against themselves when you’re against multiple enemies is a key strategy, and learning how to position yourself to not hit your teammates in the reverse situation is too.

    I actually had a whole guide about positioning and friendly fire back on the old AoC forums, because IMO it’s the most important element to learn in the entire game. Punishing players because they haven’t mastered positioning - or even because you haven’t mastered positioning and are getting in the way of their strikes without realizing it - isn’t acceptable as far as I’m concerned. Slaying your teammates or making their respawn times longer because they accidentally killed you does nothing but put your team back even further.

    so what about my solution which is purely scoreboard based?
    It will just make it a bit more clear that killing a lot of people is not doing any good without actually giving them non stat penalties?



  • @SlyGoat:

    Teamkills are an integral part of the game. Learning to play the other team against themselves when you’re against multiple enemies is a key strategy, and learning how to position yourself to not hit your teammates in the reverse situation is too.

    I actually had a whole guide about positioning and friendly fire back on the old AoC forums, because IMO it’s the most important element to learn in the entire game. Punishing players because they haven’t mastered positioning - or even because you haven’t mastered positioning and are getting in the way of their strikes without realizing it - isn’t acceptable as far as I’m concerned. Slaying your teammates or making their respawn times longer because they accidentally killed you does nothing but put your team back even further.

    No, if they are doing it enough to merit a kick, they were hurting the team more than they were doing good and removing them is a benefit. And if over time they keep getting kicked for doing it, they will eventually learn to be more careful.

    Stop with arguing that it’s a good mechanic. Almost nobody is using some technique of facilitating enemy tking as an elite strategy

    99.9 percent of tking is because people run around like raging idiots trying to kill steal and don’t give a crap because they can do it with impunity.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Teamkills are an integral part of the game. Learning to play the other team against themselves when you’re against multiple enemies is a key strategy, and learning how to position yourself to not hit your teammates in the reverse situation is too.

    I actually had a whole guide about positioning and friendly fire back on the old AoC forums, because IMO it’s the most important element to learn in the entire game. Punishing players because they haven’t mastered positioning - or even because you haven’t mastered positioning and are getting in the way of their strikes without realizing it - isn’t acceptable as far as I’m concerned. Slaying your teammates or making their respawn times longer because they accidentally killed you does nothing but put your team back even further.

    I agree that unintentional TK is part of the game but what about punishing dedicated teamkillers?



  • @Escadin:

    @SlyGoat:

    Teamkills are an integral part of the game. Learning to play the other team against themselves when you’re against multiple enemies is a key strategy, and learning how to position yourself to not hit your teammates in the reverse situation is too.

    I actually had a whole guide about positioning and friendly fire back on the old AoC forums, because IMO it’s the most important element to learn in the entire game. Punishing players because they haven’t mastered positioning - or even because you haven’t mastered positioning and are getting in the way of their strikes without realizing it - isn’t acceptable as far as I’m concerned. Slaying your teammates or making their respawn times longer because they accidentally killed you does nothing but put your team back even further.

    I agree that unintentional TK is part of the game but what about punishing dedicated teamkillers?

    This is why the votekick system exists. Personally I don’t want an automated system determining whether some inexperienced player is teamkilling people on purpose or not. If the engine allows it (I can’t say I’m familiar with UE3 servers) there’ll eventually be tools for admins to have punishment/forgive or automated team damage kicking systems on their personal servers, but I doubt we’ll see anything like that on official servers or as part of the base game.



  • @callahan9119:

    Stop with arguing that it’s a good mechanic. Almost nobody is using some technique of facilitating enemy tking as an elite strategy

    I see people do it a lot, especially when out numbered. They basically try to circle around them while they’re swinging wildly. It’s pretty easy to do with a MAA. Knights and Vanguards will cut each other down with their 2 handed swords and spears then you pick off the wounded guy left.

    @callahan9119:

    99.9 percent of tking is because people run around like raging idiots trying to kill steal and don’t give a crap because they can do it with impunity.

    This is also very true, and is mostly done by newbies. Once they figure things out more they don’t TK as much or at all. Perhaps players should get a couple TKs for free (accidents happen) but after that some sort of punishment should be handed out.



  • Teamkills and team damage are good, but I agree that the punishment is too light.

    I like the idea of spawn delays - If you want to promote teamwork, you need to penalize bad teamwork. I don’t think anyone really cares about points (well, maybe they do but I don’t) but I’d definitely think twice about taking a swing if I had a 30 second delay tacked on to my next respawn for each teamkill. That’s about what it should be.



  • Well, not too many people care about score. They like having a good kdr. Just take away a kill and give them a death every tk. You can take away score too if you want.

    Also, I try to get enemies to tk all the time. Positioning yourself correctly and causing a tk is almost more rewarding than killing them yourself.


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