Kila VS LG How to handle an in match Protest….



  • Well if you watched the match between Kila and LG (http://www.twitch.tv/roflsniped/b/344872601) for 2 freaking hours of Moore hell you should have tried playing the 2 hours of it. First off, I want to thank Warbaws for hosting and being patient, LG for a hard fought match, when we finally did fight, and Roflsniped for streaming and posting the match. Second, I am sorry for the rage during the match but this is an attempt to clarify.

    LG and I agreed to play Throneroom, traditionally - play the same map twice, switch teams and then in the case of a tie breaker possibly use Moore as LG favored Moor, 2 days before the match. So The duel was supposed to be for sides but apparently it was for map choice. LG Originally chose Throneroom twice but changed their mind and chose Moore twice. We chose it because we had just pulled off an very difficult win and was hoping to finish up. It is a horrible choice for 5v5 on many levels and if you watched the above link you will understand why which I had informed LG about that map and what would happen and I was correct.

    *I bet no one chooses Moore for 5v5 again…. heheh

    Ok so in 18:00 of the video you will see the final battle of a 2v1 archer melee, where the Kila Archer kills both archers and it was called a draw. But here is the rub and the reason why I protested to adamantly. The Kila archer started his attack as the “Draw” posted on the server, in which case the action should have been allowed to stand and it should not have been a DRAW. Then the ref called it a “DRAW” and continued with the match without attending to the protest. So not only were we robbed of a win for that round, we lost 2 more rounds in protest, stretching out the match far longer than it should have been. At the same time I was getting PMs from people who were watching the match saying the call was bad as well. Hell even the “unbiased” narrator agreed.

    Now traditionally in AOC tournaments any dispute was handled right right away. The game was paused to work it out. But not this time, the match kept going and with all my raging protest, and finally didn’t get resolved for 3 rounds. Two rounds should not have been played till the issue was settled.

    There is no where in the rules pertaining to a bad ruling on the field other than a team infringement. Even in the NFL the coach can burn a time out to look at a play or ruling that was bad.
    “-If the infringement continues, the play is allowed to be stopped and teams have 24 hours to report the infringement and MUST be supported by screenshots or footage of the incident.”
    This was not the case as there was no “infringement” by any team. This was a clear dispute about ruling it a draw which did not get cleared up till 2 rounds later.

    In the long run we won it straight up even coming behind. Point being, in the future there should be a rule either for or against an issue and if it should be handled in game or after. In my experience, it is best to pause the game, solve the issue, not let it roll on and make the team with the issue look like an asshole.

    On a side note: I was really wanting to thank Roflsniped for streaming and posting the match as that really helps support my issue and he even agreed even though he didn’t approve of my tactic. I sent him a friend request to thank him personally and he Steam blocked me. LOLs Sadly if you watch and listen to his comments he is highly ignorant and very biased. Maybe if he took a few mins doing a little research like here: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3759 He would know that Kila is one of the oldest clans in AOC - Chiv and much of the reason why many things were nerfed in AOC and even in Chiv. He would also know that VQ and Kila were most of the reason why AOC was kept alive till Chiv was released. I will even throw out a a shout to MM as well in keeping the Mod alive.

    Through the years Kila helped train the noobs, we educated players, I have personally helped many players get their game to work on older machines and probably help sell at least 75+ copies of Chiv to our clan mates and fiends of Kila. Yet, we are the red headed stepchild of AOC and have a long history of calling it like we see it, we don’t brown nose to the devs and drink the Kool-aid about the game design decisions. We are far from politically correct and nor do we care if we are liked by everyone. But those who have been around longer than Chiv was even a twinkle, know that while we can be difficult at times, we are true an loyal to our friends and many of the old guard.

    So listening to his biased and ignorant judgment was sad to hear. But what was more disturbing was his bias to potentially influencing Warbaws to disqualify us for “trash talking” when clearly there was none. As his PMs to Warbaws are evident from the video. It was all protest, cursing protest, but legit protest none the less. To Warbaws credit, he was patient enough and truly non biased during the match even though I completely disagree with the call. With the nature of this country going the way it is becoming harder and harder to disagree on some things and still keep your friends…

    But I guess he is no professional announcer and this is no professional tournament. He is entitled to his opinions. Not too sure about him pushing for disqualification though. Too bad he ignored my friend request, he might have actually gotten to know me better than to just shut me out… Maybe he should have a chat with Dweller his clan leader, who has known me for a few years…

    Thanks Roflsniped for streaming and posting the match. I really do appreciate it. Even if I disagree with you on most of the things you said. Makes the win all that much sweeter. :-D

    To LG, we were never mad at you guys nor was there any trash talking about you. My issue was with the ruling as a Draw when it should have been ruled a win or nil. Also, not having an ability to protest or “throw the flag for review” while in game. Since there is no rule about this type of a dispute and it was not handled well by either party. You guys fought really well and trounced us on the second map. So hats off to you guys as it was a hard fight to come back from such debatable call.



  • Why do people always apologize for being mad?

    Just fucking be mad and stand by what you say. If you are right, then smart people will know and the dumb ones will nitpick and gang up on you for not conforming to the “mannered” bullshit that came with the E-sports craze. That reject judge should have given the point to Kila in that 2v1 archer draw round, but obviously he is autistic and has poor judgement skills.

    Also you really could’ve condensed this.



  • Is there a specified rule that states that any attack animation that starts up before the end of the round should count if it kills? Because if not, I can’t imagine how you could argue for this to be a winning round. That would be like scoring a goal after the period has ended in a hockey game.



  • Hey, This is Breakfast Warrior.(The archer who was slain in the video). Before i go into detail; i would very much like to say that those matches were both a living hell and quite fun. (Less moor plz). The matches were hard-fought and hard-won.

    I both agree and disagree on various points. For starters, (like you said) this problem would have never arisen if these situations were directly touched upon in the tournament rules.

    Im my own personal opinion, (Regardless of rules) “Draw!” means draw. You must kill your opponent before the time is up unless your team has more players standing. Now this is a mere opinion and an opinion does not constitute as a tournament rule. Same applies to what you said.

    I don’t want to turn this into an angry Epeen thread but I’m going to say that being and old AOC clan does not give you any leverage on a topic such as this. I may be in a new clan but i am a very old AOC player. I would also agree that we should have paused then and there to discuss the matter. However, your Angry protests are not entirely justifiable. You could of kept a level head and spoke with respect and showed more sportsmanship. If that was the case then our team probably would have left In-game v chat on.

    I am not one to believe everything told to me about another person. Before the match i heard from several people that a few players in Kila were very unsportsmanlike and tended to be quite rude. I kept open thoughts but i was soon shown that some of these claims were right. This does not mean i dislike any of you but i would like to point this out to show that the whole situation could have been more enjoyable for everyone.

    Another thing i would like to say is that tournaments and tournament owners (“Warbawz” did i spell that correctly?) Should be very specific on topics such as these. Not doing so is a detriment to the community as a whole. Clans literally have E-wars and shit hits the fan. Drama starts pumping and things just go down hill. Because this wasn’t that big of a tournament; i don’t think it was that big of a deal. One thing that the community can take away from this though, is the fact that better organization and communication will help prevent things like this from happening down the line.

    Again, Good fights. Hope we(the competitive community) will have many epic battles to come! Long live Chivalry

    PS: This games title is Chivalry! May we all remember this!

    CHIVALRY: The sum of the ideal qualifications of a knight, including courtesy, generosity, valor, and dexterity in arms.



  • @Phlint95:

    Hey, This is Breakfast Warrior.(The archer who was slain in the video). Before i go into detail; i would very much like to say that those matches were both a living hell and quite fun. (Less moor plz). The matches were hard-fought and hard-won.

    Agreed….

    I both agree and disagree on various points. For starters, (like you said) this problem would have never arisen if these situations were directly touched upon in the tournament rules.

    Agreed….

    Im my own personal opinion, (Regardless of rules) “Draw!” means draw. You must kill your opponent before the time is up unless your team has more players standing. Now this is a mere opinion and an opinion does not constitute as a tournament rule. Same applies to what you said.

    Here is where I had the problem. If you watch the video it is exactly like a 3 point shot in basketball being thrown at the buzzer or a Hail Mary play in the endzone as the clock ran out. I was dead and watching in spec and saw the same in the video. So when it was ruled a Draw, as a clan leader, I went ape shit just like any professional coach would do on any bad call. I think you can see the logic of where I am going with this.

    While it is true there are no rules pertaining to a situation like this, that is why I wanted it reviewed, be allowed to state my case before the game continued for two more rounds.

    I don’t want to turn this into an angry Epeen thread but I’m going to say that being and old AOC clan does not give you any leverage on a topic such as this.

    Actually it does, it is called precedent. I have years of competitive play under my belt along with many others that share my view. That experience includes situations exactly like this and how they were “TRADITIONALLY” handled. That is the whole reason for this post, to explain and to get more clarification on rules for staging such a protest the proper way or there should be a rule that the referee’s judgement is final. Either way, that experience and history has years of proven situations and resolutions.

    I may be in a new clan but i am a very old AOC player. I would also agree that we should have paused then and there to discuss the matter. However, your Angry protests are not entirely justifiable. You could of kept a level head and spoke with respect and showed more sportsmanship. If that was the case then our team probably would have left In-game v chat on.

    The video clearly shows justification and being ignored for two rounds adds to that justification. If you notice, after I was give the time of a hearing and the complaint was heard, even though it did not go in my favor, I calmed down and played the game. I also apologized right after the match to both Warbaz and your leader about losing it and it is in my first paragraph. So i do not know what more you want.

    I am not one to believe everything told to me about another person. Before the match i heard from several people that a few players in Kila were very unsportsmanlike and tended to be quite rude. I kept open thoughts but i was soon shown that some of these claims were right. This does not mean i dislike any of you but i would like to point this out to show that the whole situation could have been more enjoyable for everyone.

    We have always been an honest and straight forward clan that calls it like we see it without beating around the bush and dancing on the politically correct sheet of glass. Nor do we swing on anyone’s nuts or brown nose anyone. If we are at times abrupt it is to get straight to the point. I realize that this can seem rude, understandable. But our world has become far too sensitive and too many people are too easily offended. It is nothing personal by any means.

    Another thing i would like to say is that tournaments and tournament owners (“Warbawz” did i spell that correctly?) Should be very specific on topics such as these. Not doing so is a detriment to the community as a whole. Clans literally have E-wars and shit hits the fan. Drama starts pumping and things just go down hill. Because this wasn’t that big of a tournament; i don’t think it was that big of a deal. One thing that the community can take away from this though, is the fact that better organization and communication will help prevent things like this from happening down the line.

    Agreed….

    Again, Good fights. Hope we(the competitive community) will have many epic battles to come! Long live Chivalry

    PS: This games title is Chivalry! May we all remember this!

    CHIVALRY: The sum of the ideal qualifications of a knight, including courtesy, generosity, valor, and dexterity in arms.

    Again, I had no qualms with you guys at all. You all fought extremely well, specially on map two. It was the ruling and the lack of any acknowledgement of a dispute that was an issue. If it was properly addressed at the time instead of letting me continue, making me look like an asshat for a justifiable dispute we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. This is a rules issue and that is why I had to post about it in hopes of getting more clarification of the rules.

    In addition, I still have an issue with the video announcer pushing to have us disqualified while the match was going on, because he was ignorant of who we are and was obviously biased for you guys.



  • @PornGuy:

    Why do people always apologize for being mad?

    Just fucking be mad and stand by what you say. If you are right, then smart people will know and the dumb ones will nitpick and gang up on you for not conforming to the “mannered” bullshit that came with the E-sports craze. That reject judge should have given the point to Kila in that 2v1 archer draw round, but obviously he is autistic and has poor judgement skills.

    Also you really could’ve condensed this.

    LoLs While I tend to agree with you, I didnt apologize for being mad but raging- going over the top with it. But it did finally get my grievance heard. Thanks for your support and yeah I probably could have condensed but I wanted to be as accurate and complete in thought as possible.

    @Leojin:

    Is there a specified rule that states that any attack animation that starts up before the end of the round should count if it kills? Because if not, I can’t imagine how you could argue for this to be a winning round. That would be like scoring a goal after the period has ended in a hockey game.

    No there is no specific rule nor is there a specific rule pertaining to this type of dispute. If you watch the video you will see that it is not scoring a goal after the period has ended but a shot at the buzzer which in most cases it is scored as a goal.



  • It’s difficult to analyse this without a proper demo, because the scoreboard timer is buggy as hell and will often cause jumps of 5 seconds or more. When the timer shows 0:09, it takes 16 seconds until we later see 0:01, but as mentioned, we can’t rely on the timer. One thing is clear, the player was still able to move after the kill occurred and the match didn’t reset until several seconds later. It’s clear we can’t rely on in game notifications either to tell us whether a win is a win or a draw is a draw. Had it been me, I would have given Kila the win for that round, as strictly speaking, irrespective of any timer, they were the Last Team Standing.

    In future for RK tournaments, we will be discounting the timer completely, and entirely making LTS a game to the last team and no draws. Thank you for bringing this to our attention, as every issue related to competitive play allows us to create further watertight rules for our own matches. In a casual environment, a timer is necessary to prevent several people hiding and trolling the rest of the players in that server, but in a competitive environment, we don’t need it; if you’re hiding, that’s one less man on your forefront.



  • @Martin:

    It’s difficult to analyse this without a proper demo, because the scoreboard timer is buggy as hell and will often cause jumps of 5 seconds or more. When the timer shows 0:09, it takes 16 seconds until we later see 0:01, but as mentioned, we can’t rely on the timer. One thing is clear, the player was still able to move after the kill occurred and the match didn’t reset until several seconds later. It’s clear we can’t rely on in game notifications either to tell us whether a win is a win or a draw is a draw. Had it been me, I would have given Kila the win for that round, as strictly speaking, irrespective of any timer, they were the Last Team Standing.

    In future for RK tournaments, we will be discounting the timer completely, and entirely making LTS a game to the last team and no draws. Thank you for bringing this to our attention, as every issue related to competitive play allows us to create further watertight rules for our own matches. In a casual environment, a timer is necessary to prevent several people hiding and trolling the rest of the players in that server, but in a competitive environment, we don’t need it; if you’re hiding, that’s one less man on your forefront.

    That was part of my main objective to the ruling in that he would have not been able to kill him if the round had truly ended because when a round truly ends, everyone gets frozen and action stops with the occasional very late hit. I believe you can hear me say just that in the video…



  • Since many of you are not on the DarkAgesGaming tournament forum I wanted to up date you on some posts and some interesting developments.

    First off KILA has done it again (JackBaldy did their fair share hehe) and managed to get the rules changed… There is a completely new set of rules for the tournament laid smack down in the middle of a tournament. Not always the best thing to do but it is done. The new rules can be found here: http://www.darkagegaming.com/rules/

    Now I want to post up a video response from LgHeightofAbsurdity about the match. A very interesting take if you have 20mins to watch the whole thing. It can be found here: http://www.twitch.tv/lgheightofabsurdity/b/345697790

    And finally, my response to his video as posted on the DAG forums. Yeah I know it is lengthy but I hope worth the read as we have already effected competitive play. Hopefully for the better. This should also spark more debate and open peoples eyes to some things.



  • Yeah it is a freaking book but it addresses and counters the 20min video response quite well…

    It would have been better if you would have responded fully in text so I could comment point by point and not have to watch you yawn for 20 mins ….JK. hehe. OK I am about to shred many of your arguments and even agree with a few.

    Lets start with the game and the round timer. On the Chivalry forums I had started a thread about the game not being ready for competitive play because of the many bugs and broken admin issues. That aside the round timer and the slow video is the the crux of the whole issue. First of the round timer is very glitchy and inaccurate. When a round time is truly ended all players are frozen it announces a draw again and the next round restarts but if you look at the map timer it is off many times at the end of maps as well. Thus the text announcement of a draw is and was inaccurate as the players were still allowed to continue to fight till the round freezes the players or in this case the last player dies. I even mentioned that in my rant. That, if the round timer had truly ended he would not have been allowed to move let alone kill the enemy. Next, even using your own video and your explanation of a feint being closer to the “draw” message, you are missing what was actually happening.

    What was actually happening and what you are seeing is a feint combo while still moving forward, again the feint was part of a whole combo attack moving forward your archer in defense. The fact that you have to slow it down to a frame by frame even more supports a “Taking a shot at the Buzzer” or a Hail Mary play as the clock runs out. It would be entirely a different argument if they were defensively circling each other as the server timer called it a draw and then the attack and kill was made. The fact that your strategy was to pull out a draw makes it even worse and he should and did in fact die long before the actual round ended. To prove that the round had not truly ended our archer had enough time to make another swing after your archers death and before that round was ended and the player was frozen. Also, you should not be allowed to be rewarded for abusing the draw mechanic in the first place. If that was the case then why not just do this, after an archer takes out an enemy just run and hide at the end of a map, avoiding any of your team getting killed and you win because you have one more player? Looks like you found a strategy for winning…… Again not very chivalrous and very freaking weak.

    I have of course posted this on the Chiv forums and I direct you to Martin’s Post:

    _Postby Martin » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:39 am
    It’s difficult to analyse this without a proper demo, because the scoreboard timer is buggy as hell and will often cause jumps of 5 seconds or more. When the timer shows 0:09, it takes 16 seconds until we later see 0:01, but as mentioned, we can’t rely on the timer. One thing is clear, the player was still able to move after the kill occurred and the match didn’t reset until several seconds later. It’s clear we can’t rely on in game notifications either to tell us whether a win is a win or a draw is a draw. Had it been me, I would have given Kila the win for that round, as strictly speaking, irrespective of any timer, they were the Last Team Standing.

    In future for RK tournaments, we will be discounting the timer completely, and entirely making LTS a game to the last team and no draws. Thank you for bringing this to our attention, as every issue related to competitive play allows us to create further watertight rules for our own matches. In a casual environment, a timer is necessary to prevent several people hiding and trolling the rest of the players in that server, but in a competitive environment, we don’t need it; if you’re hiding, that’s one less man on your forefront._
    Again supporting the the fact that the “Draw” round timer is unreliable.

    I will agree with you that, till the bugs are fixed there needs to be an exact rule pertaining to the clock running out VS the round actually ending and about and attack being launched at the draw timer being successful.

    Currently the rules have been radically changed to reflect several instances that have occurred during the last week and this is not good to be radically changing rules in the middle of a tournament. Thus I cannot give you exact quotes. But at the time, the rule stated that the team with the most players at the end of the round, won the round, not at the end of the timer. Even now the new rule is very unclear as to when a win is a win.

    -In the result of the time running out, the team with the most players alive when the time runs out wins the round.

    Does that mean when the server announces a winner or when the round actually ends, which timer?
    This said and done, I have yet to find anyone that truly agrees with you or the ruling on the field.

    Next, while I briefly mentioned it in game, is the issue of map choice and game pauses for subs. When we were agreeing to the time and map, I thought we agreed on ThroneRoom and to play it traditionally, playing the map twice, switching sides and use Moore as a tie breaker. After the duel you chose ThroneRoom and we even chose a side. Then out of no where, you were allowed to changed it to Moore after both sides agreed. This happened again in the third map when we got all the way to team choice, agreed, ready to load the map and again it was changed to Moore. Once was fine but twice being allowed to change your mind on a maps and team choice after being agreed upon, screamed of bias or at least favoritism. The same could be said of subs. We did our subs as per rules, we changed them per round. The game was not paused for us nor was it paused with I lagged out. Point being is that timeouts and lag spikes are going to happen. Unless it is major the match should go on. If you fail to replace or sub, in time, per round, you should continue to fight and suffer the loss of a player.

    Next, that you even remotely try to defend RoflSnipes huge lack of professionalism and out right manipulating a referee, when he clearly states his ignorance of Kila and his repeated self claimed bias for LG, at one point he says that he already hates me and the Pièce de résistanc, he is PMing the referee during a match! You try and play off the fact that it was an “Unofficial” stream as an excuse for a lack of professionalism, weak but I will go with it.

    The real issue is that, here we have a biased, unofficial, OUTSIDE influence with his “personality shining through” having direct access to the referee, DURING A MATCH, trying to change the outcome of said match. So yeah…… please…… defend that…… Him denying my Steam Friend request, while I wanted to thank him for doing the streams is even further of a bitch move and proves his bias again, not even getting the chance to know me, let alone doing a little research before commenting on a clan he knows so little about.

    His unprofessional-ism is not, nor was held against DarkAgeGaming, but you are dead wrong about it not being held against him. Words have power and when he is openly promoting his channel, wanting to get more people watching, wanting to be the official streamer, and pretend that he is a professional or has aspirations for professionalism, with this type of bias and flat out game rigging, because of ignorance or disagrees with a match, player, or clan, when he in fact has absolutely nothing to do with the match nor officially with the tournament at any level, says volumes. SO of course you are going to say he is a good guy, your buddies, Steam Friends and he wanted you to win. So yeah…… real professional good guy……. But to be honest, I don’t know him either, but would welcome the chance to get to know someone who is in my friend Dweller’s clan since I know most of them for years and at several points we were considering merging the two clans.

    Next; Instant replay is impossible at this point nor would I want it. What I and many other would prefer is to follow some of the precedents and traditions of AOC tournament rules and play. This one in particular was that of a in game grievance and how they were handled. It was one of two ways. The first was to post up to pause the game. This was because ALL Talk was disabled so clans could have their privacy. But what would usually happen would be that a demo of the game was hopefully made for review and that protests about the issues were made. Almost every time the game was paused to address the issue then the map was restarted or play resumed once a correction or ruling was made. Prior to the match there were no such rules so I went with the traditional method of protest, once it was ignored, I was raging, fair enough. Could I have handled it better? Sure. So could the referee. The fact that LG were also PMing and commenting on the video is still disturbing but makes the win all that much sweeter.

    On the professionalism, I can mostly agree with you but to blow off the ranting as simply the Kila Culture when you clearly state you were cussing as well. There were a huge lack of clarified rules. The rule actually stated that you could be disqualified, now the rule says you will be instantly disqualified. We didn’t throw two rounds we were trying to get the attention to pause the match but the rounds kept coming till finally we were heard.

    Like I said, I had no problem with the LG clan, it was the ruling. Then, after watching the replay, I was completely disgusted with the bias and even more so about the attempt to get us disqualified in the middle of a match in front of all those that watched. I was getting PMs from friends about the call and saying it was BS.

    I have not judged DarkAgedGaming, in fact I applauded Warbaws for not listening to the the PMs and allowing the match to continue even thought the ruling was not in my favor. As far as the whole Jack Baldy issue, I would be the same way if a former member was still wearing our tag after joining another clan but I can also see how JB team felt as if they were being attacked and purposely being disqualified because of the timing. Sadly there are more issues that they were dealing with from VQ and the Devs and since this is connected. Their second point which I touched upon is changing the rules in the middle of a tournament. While what they were doing could be considered trolling, there were no real rules against what they were doing as well as against playing players formerly from another clan. If that was the case both Kvii and Kila would be disqualified because of the teams we signed up with VS after Kvii split off. I am not defending the JB team either, I am just saying I can see their overall point as clearly they were the team to beat and even a game bug was named after them that they were under attack from other clans, the tournament and even the devs of the game. But that is another story.

    In conclusion, I believe my case is very solid on the call and much has been learned and Kila once again gets things changed and hopefully for the better.



  • In the result of the time running out, the team with the most players alive when the time runs out wins the round.

    I don’t know who wrote this, I’m just pulling it from Retsnom’s post (it kind of feels like I’m reading a book with pages missing), but I just wanted to comment on this particular suggestion. This isn’t LTS - this is keep as members alive as possible in a given time frame. LTS stands for Last Team Standing, by allowing the team with the most players left to win, it no longer becomes Last Team Standing, it becomes Team with most members left standing wins, which totally defeats the purpose.



  • @Martin:

    In the result of the time running out, the team with the most players alive when the time runs out wins the round.

    I don’t know who wrote this, I’m just pulling it from Retsnom’s post (it kind of feels like I’m reading a book with pages missing), but I just wanted to comment on this particular suggestion. This isn’t LTS - this is keep as members alive as possible in a given time frame. LTS stands for Last Team Standing, by allowing the team with the most players left to win, it no longer becomes Last Team Standing, it becomes Team with most members left standing wins, which totally defeats the purpose.

    Tiebreakers have been an issue for many fighting games. You either have a timer or you don’t. The problem with removing a timer altogether is that it’s brutal scheduling wise for a tournament, and encourages slower paced action from the players since they don’t have to press action in a race against the clock (spectator oriented arguments). If you have a timer, then it’s meant to be enforced in some way, and rewarding the most players alive is the most logical and fair compromise.

    Counter Strike avoids this problem by having a sub objective (plant the bomb). While it ensures that there will always be a clear winner, it also inherently grants a slight advantage to a team in some way (usually map balance combined with the fact that terrorists that are forced to be offensive). At least it’s somewhat mitigated through halves. If you want a clear cut winner every round, you need some sort of extra rule or objective to force the issue, but someone is probably going to be disadvantaged in the process.



  • That is the posted rules about who wins a round. Well the problem is not having a timer but which one should be considered valid for a ruling. If you understand that games timers are glitchy and inaccurate, again, which one do you use? The server posted timer or the actual round timer. If the post timer stopped the action instead of the round timer stopping action then this might not be an issue. Currently the rules again are very unclear and prior to the match as well.

    So what happens to the “shot at the buzzer”? Is it valid? And which buzzer are we using?


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