Man at arms surviving Maul/Zweil Direct Overhead strikes



  • For a long time now, I’ve noticed that the chances of killing a Maa with either the maul or the Zweilhander with an overhead swing directly on the body is 50/50. I’m thinking this must be a glitch of some sort because despite having the same armor value, low, archers will die with one hit everywhere besides the legs.

    This can be extremely frustrating as a vanguard or a 2handed knight wielding these weapons, as we play well and punish the advancing maa, only to have our weapon fail to do the damage it is supposed to do.



  • Overhand Zweihander is only a 1 shot to the head, not the body. Maul on the other hand kills both to the head and to the body. Maybe you hit on the side and end up striking the legs?



  • Overhand Zweihander is only a 1 shot to the head, not the body.

    I’ve killed Maas who haven’t taken any damage beforehand with an overhead that didn’t hit the legs or the head, killing on torso hit. Conversely, I’ve seen them survive a torso hit. This is with the Zweilhander and the maul. The maul is a bit more rare, but it still happens. It even happens against archers sometimes, but this is much more infrequent.

    And the Zweilhander can only 1-shot a vangaurd with a head-chop. Knights will take 2 head hits before going down, and of course Archers and Maa will die on a head hit as well. What I’m talking about is the randomness of damage one gets from hitting a maa on the torso compared with hitting an archer in the same area. The archer dies, the maa sometimes lives or can die. It appears random when both classes have the same armor value.

    I’ve tested this numerous times on duel servers where Maa will survive an overhand to the torso, and sometimes not.



  • Just tested this on a ffa server against bots who have just spawned. With the Zweil, archers will almost always die on a torso hit. Against maa who have taken no damage, sometimes they die, sometimes they will survive a torso hit. You can test this pretty accurately yourself. Are there any console commands to make bots docile?



  • There’s no “Sometimes” about how much damage the weapon does, the zweihander can one-hit archers and man-at arms if the overhead lands on their head, and since its a overhead, its REALLY hard not to hit their head with it. you MUST have hit their head in order to one-hit them from completely full HP, same about the maul.



  • There’s no “Sometimes” about how much damage the weapon does, the zweihander can one-hit archers and man-at arms if the overhead lands on their head

    I’m sorry, but you should abandon that tone and get in and play the game. Right now torso hits on archers will kill them you don’t need to hit the head. Just as of right now, maa will survive a torso hit, and sometimes not. I suggest you get off your high horse and do some testing yourself.



  • @Garfuncle:

    There’s no “Sometimes” about how much damage the weapon does, the zweihander can one-hit archers and man-at arms if the overhead lands on their head

    I’m sorry, but you should abandon that tone and get in and play the game. Right now torso hits on archers will kill them you don’t need to hit the head. Just as of right now, maa will survive a torso hit, and sometimes not. I suggest you get off your high horse and do some testing yourself.

    The head has a big range and is fairly easy to hit with an overhead. It includes the neck and some of the top of the torso it seems so maybe you are striking the shoulders near the neck and are thinking that is a torso shot. The damage chart is correct and after many hours with the maul I have never had this issue.



  • @Garfuncle:

    What I’m talking about is the randomness of damage one gets from hitting a maa on the torso compared with hitting an archer in the same area. The archer dies, the maa sometimes lives or can die. It appears random when both classes have the same armor value.

    This is your problem. Men-At-Arms and Archers actually have slightly different armor values, contrary to the in-game information, which is an oversimplification. Here are there actual armor values (lower is better):

    Archer Swing Resistance 1
    Archer Pierce Resistance 0.9
    Archer Blunt Resistance 0.8

    MAA Swing Resistance 0.85
    MAA Pierce Resistance 0.85
    MAA Blunt Resistance 0.85

    What this means is that men-at-arms take less damage from swing and pierce damage than archers, but take slightly more damage from blunt weapons.

    Because of this, archers take more damage from the Zweihander than men-at-arms. It takes one overhead to the head, arms, or chest to kill an archer, but only a headshot will kill a man-at-arms. Similarly, a horizontal slash to the head will kill an archer but will leave a man-at-arms barely alive (4/100 HP).

    A Maul actually does slightly more damage to men-at-arms than archers but it doesn’t matter. They’ll both die to an overhead attack that hits their head, arms, or body, but will survive a hit to their legs. A horizontal swing will only one-shot then if you hit them in the head.

    The way that damage is calculated is shown by this spreadsheet, which is maintained by Martin:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami8d_HZmYHsdDRzc1Byb3ItVWNXSFR1SURHN29TZnc#gid=1

    There is no randomness in damage calculation. It can, however, be difficult to distinguish what body part you hit unless it causes dismemberment. Also note that hitting someone in the head with a sword will not decapitate them; you must hit the neck. However both headshots and neckshots do the same amount of damage.



  • Ah, thank you for the explanation Rognik. That clears a lot of things up. :)



  • Another reason you could possibly be experiencing “torso” hits that are doing head shot damage is the “heart” hitbox, which is a small area in the center of the chest beneath the neck which does headshot damage (there’s an achievement for hitting here with arrows). Neck hits also do head damage, of course, and you have to strike the neck for a decapitation.



  • @Smellyhobo101:

    Maul on the other hand kills both to the head and to the body.

    Negatory, I just had this in duel server, landed an overhead straight on him and he was very bloody but not dead.



  • There’s no separate neck hitbox anymore, any ‘head’ hit capable of decapitating (i.e sword cuts) on a killing blow, will. This is why overheads frequently decapitate with swords.



  • @Martin:

    There’s no separate neck hitbox anymore, any ‘head’ hit capable of decapitating (i.e sword cuts) on a killing blow, will. This is why overheads frequently decapitate with swords.

    And it is glorious!!!



  • Leg hitbox includes the pelvic area IIRC; I’ve also hit many enemies on the back of their legs with my 2h sword overhead, probably because I circle people a lot too, so that’s also a possibility.

    Also, I haven’t tested it, but it may be possible to avoid a 1 hit kill with an MAA by doing a 180, bending forwards and showing them your arse, let me know how that turns out if you test it, lol.


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