This Vanguard needs some advice



  • Hey. Got this game recently. I want to main Vanguard since polearms are my medieval weapon of choice, but I’m having a lot of difficulty with the following things:

    1. Being rushed down.
    People keep telling me to keep my opponents at range, but how do I deal with those who sprint forward with a barrage of horizontal attacks? I can’t backpedal faster than someone can sprint and even if I get a hit in before they close the distance it doesn’t seem to stop them much (especially knights). Sometimes the opponent won’t flinch or slow down at all, and even if they do flinch it seems like I don’t have enough time to get another attack off because my attacks are being interrupted or my halberd is just too slow. How do I deal with being rushed down like this? Also how does the flinch/interrupt system work in this game…? Does it have to do with which part of the body you hit or how much damage you do?

    2. Parrying swords.
    I dunno what it is. Maybe the speed of the attacks? I have a lot of trouble parrying both one-handed and two-handed swords with my halberd. Is there any trick to it? Any advice? I aim for the tip/upper part of the blade when I parry, correct?

    3. Judging range.
    Does playing in third-person help with this? I’m finding it really hard to stay out of range of things that have similar reach such as two-handed swords. Is the reach scale/stat on the weapon descriptions accurate? Like, for example, if a polearm has 70 reach and a two-handed sword has 60, will every single one of the polearm’s attacks have more range than the sword’s?

    I’d really like to improve. I usually go 8/14 in pubs as a Vanguard wielding a halberd. It’s frustrating cuz I very occasionally play knight, and when I do I get within the top 3 with something like 20/8. Knights are way too easy for newbs, but that’s another topic. Anyway, thanks in advance.



  • I like to play Vanguard also (although i’m no expert). The ability of other classes to close range is certainly a danger. In particular the MAA dodge forward in to your face. Still haven’t worked out how to avoid certain lmb spam/combo death from this (hopefully a better vg than me can advise).

    Blocking can be hit and miss depending on pings. I use spear mostly and sometimes I can block and still get hit (although really that makes sense from a realism stand point, cant expect my 1 inch diameter pole to stop a hammer or large sword).

    Probably the best tip I can give is to remember your x axis of movement (left to right). Many an adversary can be quickly stabbed if you move left or right out of their hit arc as they commit to an attack. In this situation your longer pole arm can come into play. Poke them in the side as they career past you. This has the added advantage of negating the benefit of their shield should they be carrying one.

    As for range, again, have to agree with you. Whilst it seems that pole arms should have a much greater range than a typical 2 handed sword/axe/hammer this doesn’t appear to be the case in the heat of battle. I often make a stab or over head attack chasing someone down and miss, apparently not in range. Which is odd because when you position yourself what you believe to be a similar range from some arbitrary scenery and test your range you connect. Of course that might just be my imagination.

    Oh and now I remember, if you want to rack up the kills, its important to remember vg limitations i.e. no shield. In a team game let the knights and MAA start the fights then run in from the side and poke a few easy kills, then run away again. Yes its a very cheap tactic, but its very effective.



  • Exactly. ^ What this guy said. Move to the side. Keep calm when they’re spamming at you. Don’t just parry in defense right away, wait for their attack. If you do manage to parry them, try a feint, then attack. It gets new players almost every time. It’s all about footwork and knowing distance of weapons. Try even not parrying for a time and just staying out of range, juking in and out. You’ll get better.



  • Currently I am level 33 primary Halberd player that in pub servers is usually on top with an average 4-1+ KDR. While much depends on what class you are playing against and the skill level of that player. tactics radically change.

    First off I rarely combo but the Halberd but it is really the only weapon that can effectively combo with speed, distance, doing the 2nd most damage out of the three pole axes. It is nice to have the ability to combo when surrounded and taking out 3 enemies with well timed and aimed combinations. But on the rare occasion when I do combo I rarely slash combo, I try and keep it mixed up with stab-slash-over head or slash-stab-slash as the combo slash after the stab is an under swing and catches many off guard and really good for close range

    I find the primary swords too slow and lacking the damage at range and just boring. The spear choices while some have superior reach, also have limitations even with the range of the Branidstock, you cannot combo it. The Fork is fairly fast but again, little damage and you can easily step into their range and F them up.

    Second, with the Halberd, learn how to accurately stab and stab a lot to the head. Slash is only good when surrounded or to throw someone off guard after constantly stabbing them to death or too feint. You can also feint the stab but you have to be fast at it. Again I rarely feint and only do it with a superior opponent as most noobs just spam the combo and rarely feint. That is why they are killing you. You have to learn to get in the first shot, that of a stab to the face to prevent their combo spam. This is differs slightly with MAA and Archers as their spams.

    Currently avoid archers as their melee is totally OP. Archers ability to parry any heavy weapon indefinitely with a dagger or cudgel then to spam combo is completely OP. I have played archer with only the cudgel and easily taken out 3 heavys far easier than with the Halbred. In my opinion, archers should not get both a huge range advantage then only to have a very strong melee capability. A stupid choice if you ask me. Vanguards are specially vulnerable to the archer both at range and the hyper fast melee combo spam.

    To defeat archers requires lots of foot work, dodging and closing in. Once you do, go for the quick stab then weapon switch to the fast hand axe or cudgel and beat them with their own spam. Rarely if ever use the stupid vanguard power lunge unless you totally catch them from behind and you have a clean shot.

    Speaking of which, rarely if ever use the Vanguard power lunge. Again, only use it if you have a clear shot from behind and even then reconsider it. The problem is that once it is launched, you create an audible yell which warns the victim and allows them choices to evade. It also is not aim-able after you fire it off, thus you better make sure that you are dead on otherwise you will miss and miss a lot, wasting lots of stam and leaving you frozen for a half a second or more. I cannot tell you how many Vanguards I have taken out as they lunge and miss, when frozen, they are easy targets. The same is true as to how many times the lunge even perfectly aimed, ends up getting me killed. Just don’t use it.

    Fighting MAA can also be difficult with even an average player but a good MAA is very difficult. The tricks to taking out these guys is to watch for dodging patterns and adjust your attacks accordingly. I almost always use stab then a swing in the direction of their dodge and they tend to dodge right into the swing if you are successful in your stab. But they also have the combo spam ability and that can be hard to defeat if they get in the first hit. This is where you really need to work on your parrying skills. The trick to parrying in this game is to turn into the direction of the attack and they weapon itself. While many times you will get a luck parry by focusing center mass you will be doing yourself better if you learn to directionally block. Directional blocking really is the most effective even against the dreaded hammer but very true of MAA and Archer spam combos.

    The heavy classes are pretty straight forward as much of their attacks are slow enough to parry with the exceptions of some of the stabs and their fast op secondary one handers which most upper end guys are playing. Again, getting in the first stab is essential, keeping them at distance and doing damage then stab them again and again, even if they parry, stab them again or feint and stab them again. Shields are another matter and can quite be a pain. This is when you close in and circle straif to try and get behind and stab them. Another trick that takes lots of practice is the jump stab but many times it can go over a turtleing shield whore. IF that fails then try a few combos. To combo effectively, gain some distance and purposely miss the first swing, this will get them to charge, specially if you have been stabbing them to no avail. This of course is when you have already initiated your combo and they walk right into your combo, then stab them again. Don’t use this combo against MAAs or Archers they are too fast and can close the distance before your slow ass combo can begin. Again the reason why I rarely use it.

    So now I have armed you and anyone else who have read this to some of the tricks of Vanguard with Halberd. I have a few more but I don’t want to give away all my secrets. Remember that any tactic over used and players will figure it out and counter it. So occasionally mix it up and you will start pwning. Good Luck.

    This courtesy of the KiLa Clan.



  • I just stab repeatedly at the savages to keep them at bay while yelling ‘Get Back!’ at my computer.

    McT mentioned going for cheap kills from the side or rear when your adversary is distracted, and I agree 100% :D



  • @Retsnom:

    Currently I am level 33 primary Halberd player that in pub servers is usually on top with an average 4-1+ KDR. While much depends on what class you are playing against and the skill level of that player. tactics radically change.

    First off I rarely combo but the Halberd but it is really the only weapon that can effectively combo with speed, distance, doing the 2nd most damage out of the three pole axes. It is nice to have the ability to combo when surrounded and taking out 3 enemies with well timed and aimed combinations. But on the rare occasion when I do combo I rarely slash combo, I try and keep it mixed up with stab-slash-over head or slash-stab-slash as the combo slash after the stab is an under swing and catches many off guard and really good for close range

    I find the primary swords too slow and lacking the damage at range and just boring. The spear choices while some have superior reach, also have limitations even with the range of the Branidstock, you cannot combo it. The Fork is fairly fast but again, little damage and you can easily step into their range and F them up.

    Second, with the Halberd, learn how to accurately stab and stab a lot to the head. Slash is only good when surrounded or to throw someone off guard after constantly stabbing them to death or too feint. You can also feint the stab but you have to be fast at it. Again I rarely feint and only do it with a superior opponent as most noobs just spam the combo and rarely feint. That is why they are killing you. You have to learn to get in the first shot, that of a stab to the face to prevent their combo spam. This is differs slightly with MAA and Archers as their spams.

    Currently avoid archers as their melee is totally OP. Archers ability to parry any heavy weapon indefinitely with a dagger or cudgel then to spam combo is completely OP. I have played archer with only the cudgel and easily taken out 3 heavys far easier than with the Halbred. In my opinion, archers should not get both a huge range advantage then only to have a very strong melee capability. A stupid choice if you ask me. Vanguards are specially vulnerable to the archer both at range and the hyper fast melee combo spam.

    To defeat archers requires lots of foot work, dodging and closing in. Once you do, go for the quick stab then weapon switch to the fast hand axe or cudgel and beat them with their own spam. Rarely if ever use the stupid vanguard power lunge unless you totally catch them from behind and you have a clean shot.

    Speaking of which, rarely if ever use the Vanguard power lunge. Again, only use it if you have a clear shot from behind and even then reconsider it. The problem is that once it is launched, you create an audible yell which warns the victim and allows them choices to evade. It also is not aim-able after you fire it off, thus you better make sure that you are dead on otherwise you will miss and miss a lot, wasting lots of stam and leaving you frozen for a half a second or more. I cannot tell you how many Vanguards I have taken out as they lunge and miss, when frozen, they are easy targets. The same is true as to how many times the lunge even perfectly aimed, ends up getting me killed. Just don’t use it.

    Fighting MAA can also be difficult with even an average player but a good MAA is very difficult. The tricks to taking out these guys is to watch for dodging patterns and adjust your attacks accordingly. I almost always use stab then a swing in the direction of their dodge and they tend to dodge right into the swing if you are successful in your stab. But they also have the combo spam ability and that can be hard to defeat if they get in the first hit. This is where you really need to work on your parrying skills. The trick to parrying in this game is to turn into the direction of the attack and they weapon itself. While many times you will get a luck parry by focusing center mass you will be doing yourself better if you learn to directionally block. Directional blocking really is the most effective even against the dreaded hammer but very true of MAA and Archer spam combos.

    The heavy classes are pretty straight forward as much of their attacks are slow enough to parry with the exceptions of some of the stabs and their fast op secondary one handers which most upper end guys are playing. Again, getting in the first stab is essential, keeping them at distance and doing damage then stab them again and again, even if they parry, stab them again or feint and stab them again. Shields are another matter and can quite be a pain. This is when you close in and circle straif to try and get behind and stab them. Another trick that takes lots of practice is the jump stab but many times it can go over a turtleing shield whore. IF that fails then try a few combos. To combo effectively, gain some distance and purposely miss the first swing, this will get them to charge, specially if you have been stabbing them to no avail. This of course is when you have already initiated your combo and they walk right into your combo, then stab them again. Don’t use this combo against MAAs or Archers they are too fast and can close the distance before your slow ass combo can begin. Again the reason why I rarely use it.

    So now I have armed you and anyone else who have read this to some of the tricks of Vanguard with Halberd. I have a few more but I don’t want to give away all my secrets. Remember that any tactic over used and players will figure it out and counter it. So occasionally mix it up and you will start pwning. Good Luck.

    This courtesy of the KiLa Clan.

    Absolutely this ^^ if you prefer the halberd. I would encourage you to the dark side of the spear. It is brilliant weapon. Often in a 1 on 1 against a heavy weapon user, all things being equal and you both attack at same time the spear will connect before the opponent wind up is complete thus resulting in a free hit.

    If you held me down at spear point I would say that 1vs 1 against a knight 2 hander you should win 90% of the time. Continually move, always stab with spear and more often than not you will strike before his wind up is complete. If you combine this with side stepping 2 handed knights are easy. A shield or an enemy proficient in feinting complicates matters. Alot of your hits will be deflected or in the case of feinting your mistimed blocks will cost you. In these instances its a case of who makes the first mistake. They only way to win here is to not make the first mistake OR if you can back away far enough lob a throwing axe at their head. A clean score with the throwing axe will allow you to trade hits and win.

    Still I crave a counter to the (goddamn cheaty teleport bullshit) forward dodge of a MAA into my face. Once that spam starts there is no escape.



  • Hey, I’m an MAA here - thought I’d give my take on things.

    For starters, this is how a lot of fights against vanguards go for me:

    1. Vanguard gets the first poke in.
    2. I parry, dodge forward, and attack with either an M1 or an overhead with a mace, or a stab with a shortsword.
    3. The vanguard parries - yes, this is entirely possible, the dodge isn’t that OP.
    4. The vanguard immediately starts a swing and hits me before I can get my swing out. Yes, in close range, vanguards are usually faster in reaction to a parry than many/most MAA weapons.
    5. If I’m hit in the head, I die instantly.
    6. If I’m hit in the legs or body, I parry the next swing as I back up and we do this all over again until I die.

    Sometimes, after I parry the poke, the vanguard will follow up with another immediate poke. This will skewer me if I’m coming in with a feint. Super annoying, but potentially risky. I’m not sure about the optimal weapon for this, but a combination of range and speed seems ideal.

    The only time combo-spamming works is when the vanguard fails to parry - and most vanguard players I meet have long since gotten incredibly good at parrying.

    Dodging in is a lot easier if a vanguard somehow whiffs their first attack - and that usually has to be an M1 swing. Overheads, if managed properly, are very hard to sidestep without dodging, and there’s a delay of almost a second before you can dodge again, which closes the window on dodging in and striking. M1s are a bit easier to judge in range as you can see the sweep coming; however, with mouse dragging during the swing, the window of opportunity can be shortened considerably.

    If an MAA is right in front of you after a parry, consider a kick. God I hate being kicked. lol

    Keep in mind that dodging, parrying, and feinting all cost a lot of energy, and if a duel goes a few rounds like this, it’s likely that the MAA will wind up exhausted. When this happens he’ll stun for a moment after a successful block. Note that the larger heater shield in particular drains more energy on a block, so MAA who carry them are quicker to succumb.



  • @Retsnom:

    Currently I am level 33 primary Halberd player that in pub servers is usually on top with an average 4-1+ KDR.

    Currently avoid archers as their melee is totally OP. Archers ability to parry any heavy weapon indefinitely with a dagger or cudgel then to spam combo is completely OP. I have played archer with only the cudgel and easily taken out 3 heavys far easier than with the Halbred. In my opinion, archers should not get both a huge range advantage then only to have a very strong melee capability. A stupid choice if you ask me. Vanguards are specially vulnerable to the archer both at range and the hyper fast melee combo spam.

    Ok, mr wall of text, Archers melee is OP? I’m about at your stats, and have very rarely had any problems with Archers up close. If you took out 3 heavies easily with the Archer in melee they obviously weren’t very good players. Oh, and they can’t parry a lot without running out of stamina. You lose a lot more stamina when you parry with a small weapon against a big one.
    The problem is getting close to them, especially now after the arrow velocity buff.



  • I would highly recommend watching the video below if you want to learn to use the Halberd to its full potential.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhASa9NBMXs

    Watch how Draulius (video uploader) uses excellent footwork and his reach advantage to best his opponents. He also makes great use of combos to quickly dispatch other players and to fight multiple enemies effectively. He only blocks when absolutely necessary and uses evasion to avoid swings and get in free hits himself when his opponent is recovering from his attack.

    Some tips that work out well for me:

    • Play defensively with the Halberd. Most players are agressive so use this to your advantage. Make them swing and miss then counter with a stab-overhead combo. This requires some timing to be effective though. Also watch out for LMB spammers when performing this move.

    • Switch to your secondary when fighting good shield users and archers (melee). I recommend the Dane Axe as it is the best for getting around shields in my opinion. Use slash to the right side and overhead to the left side of the shield user (from your perspective). With Archers get in close, feint a swing then combo for a two hit kill.

    • Slash should be your least used attack. Only use this when fighting multiple enemies and when there are no teammates around. A good trick is to start a slash and miss the first one on purpose, most people get greedy and rush in for the kill. Combo another slash and they usually eat your second attack. Works great when outnumbered.

    Good luck and just keep at it, you will get the hang of it. :)



  • damn that stab-overhead combo is brutal.



  • Have to agree. From what I have seen and played against the stab overhand or variation of that combo can be devastating especially against a weaker unit such as the Man at Arms. Most often you will see them dive in after the stab to land a hit only to be caught out by the overhand.

    Knil is a player who can usually keep several others at a distance mainly by using this combination and backpedaling. The only way to counter this is to outnumber the player or break the flow and hope they can’t parry in time.



  • @Sir:

    Have to agree. From what I have seen and played against the stab overhand or variation of that combo can be devastating especially against a weaker unit such as the Man at Arms. Most often you will see them dive in after the stab to land a hit only to be caught out by the overhand.

    Exactly. It is risky against a Knight though as he can tank two hits and sometimes get his own combo in. This leaves you unable to block and wide open. In that case pray he f*cks up and misses.

    Knil is a player who can usually keep several others at a distance mainly by using this combination and backpedaling. The only way to counter this is to outnumber the player or break the flow and hope they can’t parry in time.

    This is indeed hard to counter. Also a risky tactic but the Halberd stab can be effectively sidestepped with the lighter classes. This leaves enough room for a counter combo or atleast puts you in a better position to apply the necessary pressure.



  • @Dr:

    @Retsnom:

    Currently I am level 33 primary Halberd player that in pub servers is usually on top with an average 4-1+ KDR.

    Currently avoid archers as their melee is totally OP. Archers ability to parry any heavy weapon indefinitely with a dagger or cudgel then to spam combo is completely OP. I have played archer with only the cudgel and easily taken out 3 heavys far easier than with the Halbred. In my opinion, archers should not get both a huge range advantage then only to have a very strong melee capability. A stupid choice if you ask me. Vanguards are specially vulnerable to the archer both at range and the hyper fast melee combo spam.

    Ok, mr wall of text, Archers melee is OP? I’m about at your stats, and have very rarely had any problems with Archers up close. If you took out 3 heavies easily with the Archer in melee they obviously weren’t very good players. Oh, and they can’t parry a lot without running out of stamina. You lose a lot more stamina when you parry with a small weapon against a big one.
    The problem is getting close to them, especially now after the arrow velocity buff.

    ^ somebody got pwned by an archer in melee XD



  • @manic:

    @Dr:

    @Retsnom:

    Currently I am level 33 primary Halberd player that in pub servers is usually on top with an average 4-1+ KDR.

    Currently avoid archers as their melee is totally OP. Archers ability to parry any heavy weapon indefinitely with a dagger or cudgel then to spam combo is completely OP. I have played archer with only the cudgel and easily taken out 3 heavys far easier than with the Halbred. In my opinion, archers should not get both a huge range advantage then only to have a very strong melee capability. A stupid choice if you ask me. Vanguards are specially vulnerable to the archer both at range and the hyper fast melee combo spam.

    Ok, mr wall of text, Archers melee is OP? I’m about at your stats, and have very rarely had any problems with Archers up close. If you took out 3 heavies easily with the Archer in melee they obviously weren’t very good players. Oh, and they can’t parry a lot without running out of stamina. You lose a lot more stamina when you parry with a small weapon against a big one.
    The problem is getting close to them, especially now after the arrow velocity buff.

    ^ somebody got pwned by an archer in melee XD

    I get slash spammed by archers all the time. They are fast and the cudgel is retarded fast and amount of damage. They also block way too well. I am guessing you have not played against and archers with skills. As much as I hate archers for many reasons, try playing cudgel with your halberd skills and you will pwn lots of people with it.



  • Thanks everyone for the responses. I read this entire thread over a few times and then tried to apply what I learned… I gotta say, after a bit of practice I am doing muuuuuch better.

    You guys really helped a lot, thanks again!



  • @Retsnom:

    @manic:

    @Dr:

    Ok, mr wall of text, Archers melee is OP? I’m about at your stats, and have very rarely had any problems with Archers up close. If you took out 3 heavies easily with the Archer in melee they obviously weren’t very good players. Oh, and they can’t parry a lot without running out of stamina. You lose a lot more stamina when you parry with a small weapon against a big one.
    The problem is getting close to them, especially now after the arrow velocity buff.

    ^ somebody got pwned by an archer in melee XD

    I get slash spammed by archers all the time. They are fast and the cudgel is retarded fast and amount of damage. They also block way too well. I am guessing you have not played against and archers with skills. As much as I hate archers for many reasons, try playing cudgel with your halberd skills and you will pwn lots of people with it.

    You guess wrong. I deal with archers with cudgels exactly the same way I deal with an MAA with a cudgel. Look I get that they can be annoying, same as any facehugging player. Stop assuming I’ve played like 10 hours.



  • Gonna post a vid on youtube tomorrow or smthing of me playing vg with the halberd. Its my first video ever and just made it for fun, but perhaps you can learn smthing from it, even tho Im not playing that good during it. Will post it in this thread when its up



  • One of the most effective methods I have found for keeping those super quick, super deadly 1 handed guys at range is to stab. They cannot come up on you when you are using well timed stabs with the halberd. This does take practice, patients and self-control (for me anyway, I was stabbing like a total fool, and I often still do when I am over excited). Put all that range to use and if they want to rush at you, give it to them straight in the gut. Or the head. Whatever suits your fancy I guess :D

    I also have trouble parrying those fast 1 handed swords, daggers in particular are the bane of my existence. It just took practice for me, and understanding the mechanic of blocking the tip of the sword or dagger (although once I let a dagger into range, I almost always die). I was having a lot of trouble with those huge, overhanded, heavy swings from opponents until I realized…I have to almost look straight at the sky many times. Practice, practice, practice :D Now I very rarely ever get hit with overhand choppy-type attacks.

    I don’t have any advice for judging the range of certain weapons. Just keep running in and practicing until it starts to click. You can check out the statistics for each weapon at class selection and try to imagine their ranges, strengths and weaknesses that way. I can’t tell you if the range meters on the weapons at class selection are accurate or not, I certainly hope they are :o

    I hope some of that made sense :D



  • Ok, here is my video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT5_iPkDVSg maybe it can give u some advices, even tho I didnt do a perfect round. No commentary in the clip, only some music.



  • @Mean:

    Ok, here is my video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT5_iPkDVSg maybe it can give u some advices, even tho I didnt do a perfect round. No commentary in the clip, only some music.

    Thx, good one.

    Halberd is great in scenarios like this, when you can focus on one player at a time in most cases.

    However I find bardiche much more useful in the chaos of Team Objective where players from both teams are dogfighting in small areas. It has vicious overhead, which usually needs one hit to kill every moderately wounded class, with exception of knights. It instakills archers from the back and can kill full hp knight in 2 overhead combo. And has better slash attack to fend off multiple attackers.

    Halberd has great combo but in TO you don’t always have chance to land both hits. This is when bardiche comes in and clean up with one overhead :)


Log in to reply