Please give us 2-3 smoke pots!



  • Or a bong hit…. Ok seriously though. Currently it seems I am the only one using the smoke pots in pub play and scrims. As far as I know, I am the only one to use them in the 5v5 tournament. It can be semi effective at certain points in certain maps or if there is a high number of archers. But here is the problems with them;

    1. The area of smoke is really not big enough in width or thickness to really be that effective if it is just too easy for an archer to walk around. Because of this small area, archers just shoot into and still manage to take player out because it is only 2-3 player wide.

    2. The smoke doesn’t last that long. In stonehill I usually toss it in advance of the poison body cart so that the other team cannot tell the distance of where it is at so defensively it put a barrier between the defender and the offense and the cart behind. Offensively I throw the smoke pot way ahead of the cart so that the defense is sort of blind to our position as we push. But again it just doesn’t last that long.

    3. Many maps do not have an ammo box so you cannot reload. It is a one time shot and almost pointless. If you do have an ammo box they are so spread out that again it is pointless to go all the way back to an ammo box just to get a non lethal, temporary puff of defense

    4. This is probably the biggest reason no one uses them. It is the only load out item that does no damage. Why would you sacrifice using them over not having a ranged attack for a small temporary defensive item that can still get you killed by people attacking the cloud with a ranged barrage? Most do not chose this. So far I seem to be the lone user of it.

    I still feel that they have potential but only if the load out includes 2-4 smoke pots, This works for both offense and defensive objects to where you can position them side by side, in narrow situations front to back, and on maps where there are no ammo boxes for reload it gives the opportunity to use one now and others later. It also changes up how tournament play allowing for open field advances, flanking and even a potential irritant too the archers that have way too much melee ability for a ranged class. This also helps the class that has no shield or true defense against being mowed down by archers since it is almost impossible to dodge arrows from a skilled archer and if you manage to close the distance they just combo spam you while easily and infinitely parrying all heavy weapons with a butter knife. (beyond stupid)

    Point being they are currently useless and no one uses them, except me it seems. Hell a single fire pot can burn many people and do a lot of damage. So what is the advantage of the current single smoke pot? Virtually none.

    So I propose either giving us 2-3 smoke pots at the current size and fade out time or increase the size and duration of the fade out time dramatically. I would still prefer at least one more…

    I understand the fear of having a team full of vanguards filling up the map with smoke pots could be a pain in the ass and not sure what it might do to FPS if that actually happened. But many WW2 combat games and modern combat games give you many smoke grenades or an ability to pick up more, faster. Again I think that most players would still choose ranged weapons instead of smoke pot trolling, if that is even possible. This is true in almost all combat games where this type of defensive weapon is an option, it is rarely used.

    I appeal to the logic of even having them in game if they are not even played. Give me 3 and I will use them as they were intended for both defense and offense. I would settle for 2 :D



  • Isla Innocentes bfbc2 as defenders in Rush Mode, most potential for use of smoke ever, snipers have no chance hehe :) Surely that is the point of smoke what ever the age in question, to prevent targeted ranged attack. Totally agree it needs buffing, otherwise its useless.



  • I have always thought 2 was the proper number for it. I just fear the amount of smoke a few vanguards can produce with 2 pots. I am torn on this issue. Would love for them to try it out on beta, to see how it goes. I’d gladly test it out. Or maybe just make the one smoke pot larger, and the smoke stay for a little while longer, so if two teammates coordinate you could actually use it to flank archers. Though I’m sure if smoke becomes good, archers will be quite upset. Balancing a game is so rough…



  • I would love to see more smoke pots. I think like 3 or 4 vanguards spamming them would be so much fun! :D I totally agree with OP on buffing/increasing ammo count on smoke pots!



  • I was thinking of making this thread myself. However, I feel there are some inherent changes that have to be made to smoke pots before this can be a viable option.

    Currently, smoke pots don’t really seem like the kind of medieval smoke bomb one would expect. They had very basic understanding of the mechanics of making a bomb. Smoke pots now function like modern day smoke grenades which store a whole lot of compressed smoke and release it gradually over an extended duration. I think realistically any kind of smoke bomb you could make in the middle ages would not create this effect, it would be a short burst of thick smoke. I also think that would be a good way to balance out vanguards having multiple smoke pots. Three seems like a good number to me if this is changed - it also puts every thrown weapon in a respective tier of ammo balance, one firepot, two throwing axes, three smoke pots, four throwing knives.

    So IMO change the function to this;

    Smoke spreads almost instantly within its area upon impact, rather than gradually like it does now.

    Smoke dissipates after ~5 seconds.

    Smoke area is ~50% larger than it is now, to compensate for how short it is.

    In addition to increased capacity for max # of smoke pots, the above will I think give vanguards far more opportunity to create brief but powerful smoke screens, and the ability to create up to three without refilling means you can actually effectively close in on archers even in the open while changing your route; otherwise in the current implementation of small, long-lasting smoke clouds, the archer can very easily move out of it and continue firing, or just fire into the smoke and have a decent chance of hitting you if you throw it close to yourself and run through it.



  • @SlyGoat:

    I was thinking of making this thread myself. However, I feel there are some inherent changes that have to be made to smoke pots before this can be a viable option.

    Currently, smoke pots don’t really seem like the kind of medieval smoke bomb one would expect. They had very basic understanding of the mechanics of making a bomb. Smoke pots now function like modern day smoke grenades which store a whole lot of compressed smoke and release it gradually over an extended duration. I think realistically any kind of smoke bomb you could make in the middle ages would not create this effect, it would be a short burst of thick smoke. I also think that would be a good way to balance out vanguards having multiple smoke pots. Three seems like a good number to me if this is changed - it also puts every thrown weapon in a respective tier of ammo balance, one firepot, two throwing axes, three smoke pots, four throwing knives.

    So IMO change the function to this;

    Smoke spreads almost instantly within its area upon impact, rather than gradually like it does now.

    Smoke dissipates after ~5 seconds.

    Smoke area is ~50% larger than it is now, to compensate for how short it is.

    In addition to increased capacity for max # of smoke pots, the above will I think give vanguards far more opportunity to create brief but powerful smoke screens, and the ability to create up to three without refilling means you can actually effectively close in on archers even in the open while changing your route; otherwise in the current implementation of small, long-lasting smoke clouds, the archer can very easily move out of it and continue firing, or just fire into the smoke and have a decent chance of hitting you if you throw it close to yourself and run through it.

    You, sir, are a genius. :)
    Agree x1000



  • +1 !



  • He is a genius? It was my freaking idea…. lols

    I am glad that you all agree. So to make smoke pots even viable any one of those changes would be fine. I do however disagree with you opinion that medieval times had no ideas how to make long lasting smoke. They had incense, alchemy and knew enough to poison waters systems I am quite sure they knew how to make something that smokes and smokes a lot for a long period. Just burning wet hay bales would do it. Anyway…

    I really like the idea of having 3 smoke pots that are wider and last around 15 secs from light to heavy then fade out with a max cover of 5-7 secs of pure cover. But you can only throw use them every 15 secs maybe 20 before you can use them again thus needing another vanguard to sacrifice throwing weapons for cover and encouraging more team work.

    The old AOC smoke pots were perfect in size, amount of cover and duration, sadly they just had bad video lag. Not sure f that would be an issue.

    Since so many agree, lets see if we cannot get this on the list of updates.



  • I really wish smoke pots were just a little more viable. The ideas mentioned in this thread are pretty solid in my opinion.

    Alternatively, perhaps smoke pots can be given an additional effect. Such as causing archers within the smoke to have increased draw and reload speeds, or perhaps disable firing all together. This could help combat the over-effectiveness of a good archer, forcing them to leave the smoke into a more unfavorable position.

    I don’t know :P. But I think extra utility would make it more attractive of an option than merely buffing and debuffing its current aspects.

    Either way, I hope it gets at least some minor changes.



  • @Derpasaur:

    Alternatively, perhaps smoke pots can be given an additional effect. Such as causing archers within the smoke to have increased draw and reload speeds, or perhaps disable firing all together. This could help combat the over-effectiveness of a good archer, forcing them to leave the smoke into a more unfavorable position.

    I don’t know :P. But I think extra utility would make it more attractive of an option than merely buffing and debuffing its current aspects.

    This would be grossly overpowered, as well as nonsensical. Archers would just be an MaA with worse weapons and no dodge should this happen. Map control is a damn important aspect of the game, with enough smokepots a Vanguard could do more than enough to help his team win. Any additional effects would just be silly.



  • @Caustic:

    @Derpasaur:

    Alternatively, perhaps smoke pots can be given an additional effect. Such as causing archers within the smoke to have increased draw and reload speeds, or perhaps disable firing all together. This could help combat the over-effectiveness of a good archer, forcing them to leave the smoke into a more unfavorable position.

    I don’t know :P. But I think extra utility would make it more attractive of an option than merely buffing and debuffing its current aspects.

    This would be grossly overpowered, as well as nonsensical. Archers would just be an MaA with worse weapons and no dodge should this happen. Map control is a damn important aspect of the game, with enough smokepots a Vanguard could do more than enough to help his team win. Any additional effects would just be silly.

    Perhaps, yes, but regardless, I think there’s a bit to be desired from them as it currently stands.



  • I agree. I actually use them quite a bit map dependent. Most maps are too open and archers just move around them easily. Also, they have many other uses than archer warding. But limiting only one and at that its limited width.

    I would rather see 3 smoke pots with a wider range that doesn’t last as long but doesn’t need to go as high.

    This would make them effective. As what it appears everyone else agrees to ;P

    An archer caught in smoke (or any class for that matter) could have their vision blurred for a few seconds. This would not only allow for smoke to be used for cover and flanking, but also make it worth it to throw at an archer.



  • Yup I hope they bring a revamp to the smoke pot system. As it stands, throwing axes is almost a superior choice in every single situation.



  • 2x Pots of Smoke are OP



  • @SlyGoat:

    I was thinking of making this thread myself. However, I feel there are some inherent changes that have to be made to smoke pots before this can be a viable option.

    Currently, smoke pots don’t really seem like the kind of medieval smoke bomb one would expect. They had very basic understanding of the mechanics of making a bomb. Smoke pots now function like modern day smoke grenades which store a whole lot of compressed smoke and release it gradually over an extended duration. I think realistically any kind of smoke bomb you could make in the middle ages would not create this effect, it would be a short burst of thick smoke. I also think that would be a good way to balance out vanguards having multiple smoke pots. Three seems like a good number to me if this is changed - it also puts every thrown weapon in a respective tier of ammo balance, one firepot, two throwing axes, three smoke pots, four throwing knives.

    So IMO change the function to this;

    Smoke spreads almost instantly within its area upon impact, rather than gradually like it does now.

    Smoke dissipates after ~5 seconds.

    Smoke area is ~50% larger than it is now, to compensate for how short it is.

    In addition to increased capacity for max # of smoke pots, the above will I think give vanguards far more opportunity to create brief but powerful smoke screens, and the ability to create up to three without refilling means you can actually effectively close in on archers even in the open while changing your route; otherwise in the current implementation of small, long-lasting smoke clouds, the archer can very easily move out of it and continue firing, or just fire into the smoke and have a decent chance of hitting you if you throw it close to yourself and run through it.

    Smoke pots are for sure no good in 1v1, but they can do pretty well if placed for your team like right behind that big clash so opposing archers get a high change of hitting their own team.
    I think giving vanguards the ability to cover all the way to an archer would be to much and not to mentioned the performance issue this would create (smoke and shadows have usually the biggest performance impacts in my experience).
    However, shape / size and duration of smokepots could be tweaked to be more relevant in 1v1 so it can be used as temporary shield (Just enough to make it work). After that, I think the best way is to makes smokepots cooldown based or with a higher ammo cap, but you can’t have more than one active at the same time. Eventually, they should be usable more frequently, so you just get one smoke pot for your archer assault (but a bit better one) and you get that exact same chance again for your next archer assault, without forcing you to retreat and abort your successful infiltration to find an ammo stash.
    Smokepots should still be counter able and they should give both (vanguard and his opponent) the opportunity to take advantage of it, since many of chivalry’s game mechanics work that way, but they should be more relevant in 1v1 (esp vanguard vs archer).

    I propose it to be wider and deeper, but have a decreased height, last about ~15secs and probably move in a random / predictable direction (but always forward), so both can adapt to where the cover goes (it should be blocked by , and bounce of obstacles tho, so it doesnt become useless indoors or in cover heavy areas which should actually be an advantage- not disadvantage).
    It should either have 15sec cooldown or you get 2-3 and can’t have more than one active at a time and it should spread to it’s full size almost instantly.



  • 3-5 smoke pots with longer duration would be good. I’d also like more oil pots for MAA.



  • @Retsnom:

    I do however disagree with you opinion that medieval times had no ideas how to make long lasting smoke. They had incense, alchemy and knew enough to poison waters systems I am quite sure they knew how to make something that smokes and smokes a lot for a long period. Just burning wet hay bales would do it…

    well … potassium nitrate and sugar makes the best homemade smokebombs… and this recepe was discovered even before the mongols era … potassium nitrate can be easely extracted from rich soil and ashes and sugar was commun


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