Is this the direction melee combat is going?



  • face hug->look downwards->overhead swing

    It creates a strike with a completely ridiculous & unrealistic block angle that will bypass most attempts at blocking.

    I can’t criticism those that use it, as it’s clearly an optimal strategy - but really, is that the direction we want Chivalry’s melee combat to go in? Exploiting flaws in the combat mechanics that allow those few ‘in the know’ to dominate all others?



  • No, the way melee is going right now is face hug>look at ground>LMB smash… No one uses overheads! :p



  • I must say, this game was poorly designed from the start. Unreal Engine was a bad choice because it has no lag compensation. Along with bunch of combat problems rising, this game surely frustrates a lot of people.



  • @Slaughtervomit:

    No, the way melee is going right now is face hug>look at ground>LMB smash… No one uses overheads! :p

    When I was playing with polearm, I actually found lowering my sensitivity and LMB smash while keeping the enemy in my periphals while sliding the mouse towards him usually resulted in an unblockable attack.



  • @BOT:

    @Slaughtervomit:

    No, the way melee is going right now is face hug>look at ground>LMB smash… No one uses overheads! :p

    When I was playing with polearm, I actually found lowering my sensitivity and LMB smash while keeping the enemy in my periphals while sliding the mouse towards him usually resulted in an unblockable attack.

    I die to stuff like this to noobs who just couldnt keep track of me and it tends to be rather annoying, I would hate to see this become a tactic used purposefully. I also saw a guy just yesterday who took the stare at your feet approach and I cant say that it was working terribly well for him, it was worth a good laugh everytime I ran into him though.



  • @BOT:

    @Slaughtervomit:

    No, the way melee is going right now is face hug>look at ground>LMB smash… No one uses overheads! :p

    When I was playing with polearm, I actually found lowering my sensitivity and LMB smash while keeping the enemy in my periphals while sliding the mouse towards him usually resulted in an unblockable attack.

    I can’t stand when this happens to me, especially when I’m right in the guys face. The shaft of the pole arm hits me and yet it does full damage? Something doesn’t seem right about that.



  • Facehug stab combo facehug overhead
    Overhead feint into instant overhead

    You also don’t have to be looking at the ground all the time, you can just lower your view slightly and just mousedrag it instead.



  • i played jedi academy multiplayer for a few years. at first i learned the combat from scratch, all the moves and timings and stuff, then i went to pubs and got owned by glitchers. i ofcourse learned most of those ‘pro tricks’ myself so that i can defend against them better, but at the end of the day i kept thinking… dafuq is this shit. i mean sure jedi academy is star wars and all, screaming ‘UNREALISTIC’ all over it, but the moves you could pull of were just retarded. imagine you start at a swing and if you turn with a swing the whole swing stays inside the body of a person thus dealing more damage. add mouse wiggling for extra damage.

    you dont want to let your game progress towards that direction. the game will look like an abomination, feel like it and attract retards.



  • I don’t find that this tactic is very effective to use all the time. I find it quite easy to outmaneuver people doing this a lot with footwork, probably because they don’t see where they are going when they do it. I guess it could be used with 3rd person view, but I don’t find it so hard to block anyway. The block hitboxes are quite generous imo, which makes this tactic not all that easy.
    If it should become a huge problem I’m guessing it will be adressed. They already adressed feint spamming, for instance.



  • Most of the gamey tricks like this is much less effective with locked 1st person view only - which is why I’m a big proponent of it. Things like tower shields, looking down on overheads, putting people on the sides of your charcater when slashing, crouch dodging. They still work as course but you give up awareness to perform them which is a good trade off imo.



  • @T_Roy:

    @BOT Chris:

    @Slaughtervomit:

    No, the way melee is going right now is face hug>look at ground>LMB smash… No one uses overheads! :p

    When I was playing with polearm, I actually found lowering my sensitivity and LMB smash while keeping the enemy in my periphals while sliding the mouse towards him usually resulted in an unblockable attack.

    I can’t stand when this happens to me, especially when I’m right in the guys face. The shaft of the pole arm hits me and yet it does full damage? Something doesn’t seem right about that.

    Chivalry should take a few notes from War of the Roses in this regard I feel. Getting hit with anything but the business end of the weapon does reduced damage. The shaft of a pole arm or maul would hurt considerably less then the part you are actually supposed to be hitting with. Though honestly they need to ramp up the negative effects of stamina first for one handers.



  • @Knil:

    They still work as course but you give up awareness to perform them which is a good trade off imo.

    When the gains are so dramatic, players will either through practice, or binds, learn to compensate for the loss of visual awareness.

    Do we really want a contrived melee system where being most effective in combat requires you to be staring at the ground during fights?
    For me such a system just evaporates all the fun from combat - I want to play naturally to be effective, not be forced to jump through awkward, artificial & unrealistic barriers in order to be competitive.

    I’m pretty sure the 1st rule of any real melee discipline is to keep your eyes on your opponent.



  • I thought it was going in the direction of LMB combo spamming a 1h weapon that has a faster swing than the duration of a flinch.



  • @AngryDave:

    I thought it was going in the direction of LMB combo spamming a 1h weapon that has a faster swing than the duration of a flinch.

    Which is nothing. No weapon does that. Even tiny knives spamming at you can be blocked if you mash the block button and aim properly.



  • @Knil:

    Most of the gamey tricks like this is much less effective with locked 1st person view only - which is why I’m a big proponent of it. Things like tower shields, looking down on overheads, putting people on the sides of your charcater when slashing, crouch dodging. They still work as course but you give up awareness to perform them which is a good trade off imo.

    It’s so strange. All the ‘better’ players are big proponents of everything that makes the game anti-fun.

    Jest - proponent of previous feint system, he’s also a proponent of this looking down overhead swing.
    Jackbaldy - proponent of combo stab
    Knil - proponent of looking down, instant overhead swings.



  • @boomandvibe:

    I must say, this game was poorly designed from the start. Unreal Engine was a bad choice because it has no lag compensation. Along with bunch of combat problems rising, this game surely frustrates a lot of people.

    Cool story bro. Seriously, enlighten us to a better engine (for the circumstances), at least.



  • @Cattleprod_Sodomy:

    @boomandvibe:

    I must say, this game was poorly designed from the start. Unreal Engine was a bad choice because it has no lag compensation. Along with bunch of combat problems rising, this game surely frustrates a lot of people.

    Cool story bro. Seriously, enlighten us to a better engine (for the circumstances), at least.

    Source engine is the most reliable for common gamers. It’s light (doesn’t run terribly like Unreal), has very good lag compensation. I’m pretty sure it’s hard to mod it though.



  • I think a compromise needs to be made. Many good players like the versatility and skill ceiling offered through mouse dragging.

    To keep the option available to competitive players without trivializing other options of attack, I would recommend having different points of the weapon animation do less damage.

    I feel like the begining and the very end of weapon animations should do slightly nerfed damage. In some situations this will mean the difference between a 2 hit kill and a 3 hit kill but will offer a risk reward to faster hits for less damage.



  • @boomandvibe:

    I must say, this game was poorly designed from the start. Unreal Engine was a bad choice because it has no lag compensation. Along with bunch of combat problems rising, this game surely frustrates a lot of people.

    Whenever I see comments about how a game engine is bad because it doesn’t have lag compensation, I cringe.

    UE3 has extremely good client side prediction, which means it really doesn’t need lag compensation unless you’re playing with over 150 ping. The only thing lag effects in Chivalry is animations, which lag compensation would not address. Lag compensation is actually very bad for melee, it makes players with high ping less predictable to play against, again because it does nothing to make their animations sync up but will allow them to hit you after you’ve already gotten out of range of their attacks. This is the same stuff that causes you to die a second after you run behind cover because on the other guy’s screen he sniped you in time, or to be able to shoot someone as soon as you round a corner before he can even see you rounding said corner - lag compensation instead of good prediction.

    AoC’s melee combat was severely hampered by Source’s intrusive lag compensation. I was overjoyed when I heard UE3 didn’t have any lag compensation.

    Anyway @ OP - Jest reported this “tactic” before the last patch, so it’s already on the radar. It’s a shame there isn’t a fix in for the hotfix, but it’s definitely not going to stay this way.

    @Derpasaur:

    I think a compromise needs to be made. Many good players like the versatility and skill ceiling offered through mouse dragging.

    To keep the option available to competitive players without trivializing other options of attack, I would recommend having different points of the weapon animation do less damage.

    I feel like the begining and the very end of weapon animations should do slightly nerfed damage. In some situations this will mean the difference between a 2 hit kill and a 3 hit kill but will offer a risk reward to faster hits for less damage.

    Mouse dragging isn’t a problem. It’s the fact that if you look at the floor and crouch while performing an overhead and attack the enemy in the back, behind his block.



  • @SlyGoat:

    @boomandvibe:

    I must say, this game was poorly designed from the start. Unreal Engine was a bad choice because it has no lag compensation. Along with bunch of combat problems rising, this game surely frustrates a lot of people.

    Whenever I see comments about how a game engine is bad because it doesn’t have lag compensation, I cringe.

    UE3 has extremely good client side prediction, which means it really doesn’t need lag compensation unless you’re playing with over 150 ping. The only thing lag effects in Chivalry is animations, which lag compensation would not address. Lag compensation is actually very bad for melee, it makes players with high ping less predictable to play against, again because it does nothing to make their animations sync up but will allow them to hit you after you’ve already gotten out of range of their attacks. This is the same stuff that causes you to die a second after you run behind cover because on the other guy’s screen he sniped you in time, or to be able to shoot someone as soon as you round a corner before he can even see you rounding said corner - lag compensation instead of good prediction.

    AoC’s melee combat was severely hampered by Source’s intrusive lag compensation. I was overjoyed when I heard UE3 didn’t have any lag compensation.

    Anyway @ OP - Jest reported this “tactic” before the last patch, so it’s already on the radar. It’s a shame there isn’t a fix in for the hotfix, but it’s definitely not going to stay this way.

    @Derpasaur:

    I think a compromise needs to be made. Many good players like the versatility and skill ceiling offered through mouse dragging.

    To keep the option available to competitive players without trivializing other options of attack, I would recommend having different points of the weapon animation do less damage.

    I feel like the begining and the very end of weapon animations should do slightly nerfed damage. In some situations this will mean the difference between a 2 hit kill and a 3 hit kill but will offer a risk reward to faster hits for less damage.

    Mouse dragging isn’t a problem. It’s the fact that if you look at the floor and crouch while performing an overhead and attack the enemy in the back, behind his block.

    Interesting… will have to experiment with this when I get home. That does sound a little game-breaking.

    I saw the horror of trying to melee someone with high ping and high jitter the other day. Other people were complaining about the same person in the game. I would just… get hit during his windups or during his return to idle animation… I realize its a new game and perhaps the netcode simply needs some work, though. I’ve only seen this issue maybe twice. Thankfully haven’t encountered anyone exploiting it and everyone was pretty friendly about it with this guy in the server, as it wasn’t his fault.


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