Why, TB? Why? - (Pavaise Shield Problems)



  • Edit: Thanks, for adjusting my title, I didn’t mention the shield because there are for sure not enough people out there who actually used it once this month + happen to visit the forum :P

    I had no choice but to notice that you can’t pick up a pavise shield anymore and I’d like to ask why?

    Let me make a few things clear:

    -Pavise shield is the most underused item in chivalry (well it is probably in a pity relationship with smokepot)
    -Nobody uses it, some try but then they leave it. People start to set it up (throw it away) on their spawn so it doesn’t reveal them by being a big fan saying “here I am between these bushes, and ps I’m a crossbowman”.
    -It breaks the second you set it up on most surfaces or when someone plainly walks against it from a 1 pixel higher elevation.
    -It’s only purpose is to provide you a medicore cover if you turn around 180° for reloading, which further decreases your awareness during the process. It’s still more viable than to deploy it, because it simply takes too long.
    -It was already nerfed in the big patch where it suddenly had to be destroyed by oil pots because those organized shield walls around objectives we saw all the time became annoying.

    So instead a bugfix, we get another nerf that isn’t even mentioned in the hotfix notes? /rant
    A statement on the reason behind this would be nice.

    I think this should happen:

    -undo the last nerf
    -make it “refillable” at ammo stashes
    -fix the random breaking
    -make it optional
    -draw previous weapon after deploying

    (see last post on page 1)
    -make it break by nothing but 2-4 weapon hits depending on weapon dmg:
    4 hits for daggers
    3 hits for hybrid types (like claymore) and 1h
    2 hits from ranged weapons (except short bow / light crossbow) and 2h weapons
    1 hit ballista should 1 shot a pavise shield and kill the xbowman behind.
    -reduce set up time by 50% at least

    The HP change is not necessary but I think it would reduce the shields overall survivability (not 100% sure about it tho). In exchange it should become more ‘mobile’ even if you deploy it. Face it, even if you care about it the best use is to have it on your back because you don’t want to lose any more mobility and you don’t have the time to redeploy it several times in a fight with all the time you already lose to reloading.
    Even with the bugfixes, people will still never set them up.

    It should break ONLY to weapon damage. If you don’t like people using it for map exploits, you could change it to fall over if someone jumps it.

    It is common sense that a crossbow man has to stay back more than archers and rather get to “snipe” as much as it is possible in this game. It is also common sense that this strategy requires you to change your position periodically, which is not possible anymore without losing your shield. So yes it should be pickup-able.

    I know most people out there don’t even bother about playing with xbows, but I’d appreciate it if you still spent 2mins and give me your 2cents from an outside perspecive, as I fear there are not enough crossbow users out there to support me.



  • I think is fine how it is, its supossed to be wooden shield to provide cover while you reload, nothing more.



  • @Metrocop:

    I think is fine how it is, its supossed to be wooden shield to provide cover while you reload, nothing more.

    It is fine that it is bugged so it breaks most of the time for no reason the second you set it up?

    Thanks for your reply



  • @Escadin:

    @Metrocop:

    I think is fine how it is, its supossed to be wooden shield to provide cover while you reload, nothing more.

    It is fine that it is bugged so it breaks most of the time for no reason the second you set it up?

    Well, I even think you shouldn’t be able to plant it in most of the surfaces, if you look at it its just a wooden pointed stick down there, you should be able to plant it only on soft surfaces.



  • @Metrocop:

    @Escadin:

    @Metrocop:

    I think is fine how it is, its supossed to be wooden shield to provide cover while you reload, nothing more.

    It is fine that it is bugged so it breaks most of the time for no reason the second you set it up?

    Well, I even think you shouldn’t be able to plant it in most of the surfaces, if you look at it its just a wooden pointed stick down there, you should be able to plant it only on soft surfaces.

    Beside the fact that realism has nothing to do with gamebalance, “soft surfaces” is where it mostly breaks atm. And in case you insist on realism, how is it realistic that a massive wooden shield (more massiv than a kite shield or buckler which btw can tank infinite shots / melee hits) breaks when you drive it into the soil, but unfortunatly there was a little stone or twig on the surface or the surface was unfortunatly not flat enough so it instantly cracks into thousandmillionshundredsscriptual pieces?
    Why doesn’t it fall over when you jump against it but again cracks into said amount of pieces?
    How is it realistic that if it’s survives the set up part, it is forced to this place till heaven takes it or your character dies?



  • @Metrocop:

    Well, I even think you shouldn’t be able to plant it in most of the surfaces, if you look at it its just a wooden pointed stick down there, you should be able to plant it only on soft surfaces.

    It seems you didn’t get his main point: It’s useless because it’s bugged. Oo
    You can’t plant it anywhere since it just breaks most of the time. And now you are not even able to pick it up again in case it didn’t break in the first place, so first of all this shield need a bugfix, not another nerf….



  • @Escadin:

    Beside the fact that realism has nothing to do with gamebalance, “soft surfaces” is where it mostly breaks atm. And in case you insist on realism, how is it realistic that a massive wooden shield (massiver than a kite shield or bucklerwhich btw can tank infinite shots / melee hits) breaks when you drive it into the soil, but unfortunatly there was a little stone or twick on the surface or the surface was unfortunatly not flat enough?

    I never said it doesn’t need a fix because it breaks a lot of times, is just that with everything you suggested you would buff a shield which is supossed to be only a temporary cover to reload, and I believe that the pavise has a maximum health around 300. And yeah if we speak about realism the game is not realistic at all in many aspects.



  • @Banjohitler:

    @Metrocop:

    Well, I even think you shouldn’t be able to plant it in most of the surfaces, if you look at it its just a wooden pointed stick down there, you should be able to plant it only on soft surfaces.

    It seems you didn’t get his main point: It’s useless because it’s bugged. Oo
    You can’t plant it anywhere since it just breaks most of the time. And now you are not even able to pick it up again in case it didn’t break in the first place, so first of all this shield need a bugfix, not another nerf….

    I understand and obviusly agree that needs a fix because it breaks a lot, but he is also suggesting stuff which would buff it, not fix it.



  • I think this should be in the suggestions part of the forums?

    Anyway, I agree that it should be possible to pick back up and that the fact it breaks into nothingness for no apparent reason should be fixed, but I absolutely do not agree with making it not-flammable again, its a wooden cover, it should burn.



  • #1 we agree it needs a fix. <3

    #2 I agree it is supposed to stop projectiles and nothing else. The buffs I propose are aimed to make setting it up more attractive, since the best way to use it even before this nerf was to carry it on your back:
    -Imagine you sneak up onto highground, chose a target and want to hit it before it detects you: the one thing you won’t do in this situation where time is a key to spend 3 seconds setting up that pavise shield and then swap from melee to ranged weapon (even if it wouldnt break for sure) ->about 5seconds are gone.
    -You are at the cart and try to countersnipe the enemy archers. Now the cart moves but you are forced to stay back, because you can’t pick up the shield again. Camping is not only considered a poor playstyle, it leads nowhere. On the other hand, when you have to pick it up and plant it over and over again in order to stick to the frontline, a xbowmen will soon do nothing more than reloading and shield planting, which is very dull to play.
    -Imagine the best way for a knight would be to carry his tower / kite shield on the back, just because it is way more effective than actually wielding it in your hand. That would by no means be fine with anyone out there so why doesn’t this apply to xbows?
    -As I mentioned early, even if the object doesn’t move, you have to change your position in order to stay effective. This is again, forbidden now.

    Also, 2-4 hit depending on weapon is less than 300 hp, so actually I propose a nerf on it’s hp in exchange for more mobility. Especially the heavy crossbow already consumes about 50% of a match with reloading, if you have to do anything else than dieing, shooting and melee fighting in between, you will make sure it’s not taking care of that damn shield because just don’t have the time anymore.
    So yea it not only needs a fix, it needs a buff that makes it a viable choice.



  • @Dreamydark:

    I think this should be in the suggestions part of the forums?

    Anyway, I agree that it should be possible to pick back up and that the fact it breaks into nothingness for no apparent reason should be fixed, but I absolutely do not agree with making it not-flammable again, its a wooden cover, it should burn.

    I guess the fire part is discussable. From the point of gamebalance I assume it was implemented so shieldwalls can be stopped. I’m just not happy that this happen even before anyone could think of shield walls.
    From a realism point of view it should be burnable indeed, other wooden shields and bardiches & stuff should probably too :P But then again, fire isn’t even extinguished by water so go to hell realism.

    I wait for a mod to decide where this goes, who btw might as well leave their opinion while they’re at it.



  • If it can’t be picked up again, then that is most definitely a bug. I stopped playing Crossbow because everything it can do, the Warbow can do better and I have to keep mentioning this so that one day I can pick up a Crossbow again and not feel like I’m gimping myself =P



  • @Martin:

    If it can’t be picked up again, then that is most definitely a bug. I stopped playing Crossbow because everything it can do, the Warbow can do better and I have to keep mentioning this so that one day I can pick up a Crossbow again and not feel like I’m gimping myself =P

    Not quite anymore, any of the three crossbows are ideal for “sniping” now. So each ranged weapon type as their advantage and disadvantage, the bows are good in mid-distance. Perhaps standing behind the team shooting at the enemy infront, while the crossbows you can use to snipe down other archers or melee fighters with dead-on accuracy and high damage.



  • The biggest problem I have with Pavise shields is the bug where they show as the wrong color. This can lead to you getting TKed sometimes, because it’s the only way to see what team a crossbowman is on from behind. Other issues also exist, like how you always pull out your secondary weapon when you put it down.

    Unless it has changed recently, I only have a problem with the Pavise breaking when I put it in a really dumb spot, like on stairs or against spikes. The best solution to the problem would probably be to make it so the shield just falls over when this happens, rather than breaking, so you can pick it back up. The shield should probably also just fall over when it gets kicked, perhaps.

    Finally, I agree that crossbows need some help, especially the heavy crossbow, which doesn’t deal enough damage over the regular one to mean much. I think maybe the best way to help them would be to make it so you don’t have to stare at the ground while reloading. (Why do you have to look at the ground to reload the Heavy Crossbow anyway? It has a crank on it.) Maybe they could tie this into the Pavise shield somehow, like allowing you to reload the crossbow by propping it against the top of the shield to reload it. The Pavise on the ground should give some other bonus besides blocking arrows. Turning around to reload being better than actually deploying it just feels silly.

    Oh, and please fix crossbows so that if I accidentally keep holding alt when I reload it doesn’t stay zoomed in, because that makes me feel sick. :-(



  • Thanks for your replies!

    @ Martin and Wulfy

    The normal crossbow is definetly superior in hunting over archers, you’re quicker while in “windup”, the arrows speed increases you’re effective range so you don’t have to be that close to melees and it ensure you’re projectile hits first in a trade off. Also it does the damage of warbow with bodkin AND broadhead arrows, so it’s even worth to ocassionally shoot it at vanguards.
    Light crossbow and heavy crossbow are, however, if anything fun to play with, but not really effective. They don’t serve any real purpose.

    @Rognik:

    Maybe they could tie this into the Pavise shield somehow, like allowing you to reload the crossbow by propping it against the top of the shield to reload it. The Pavise on the ground should give some other bonus besides blocking arrows. Turning around to reload being better than actually deploying it just feels silly.

    Oh, and please fix crossbows so that if I accidentally keep holding alt when I reload it doesn’t stay zoomed in, because that makes me feel sick. :-(

    This is a pretty nice idea, actually, pavise shields might have had a denting on top in their history, where you could place your crossbow while you aim and fire (to increase accuracy).
    This idea could be worked into the crossbow gamemechanics to solve one or the over problem.

    And the zoom was at least somehow fixed, since normally you enter idle stance after firing but it still happens if you reload too soon (like even before the bolt strikes).



  • It seems pretty obvious the reason the pavise breaks if you look at it funny is to stop people from exploiting them to climb weird places on the map. If the pavise clips into a player model, it asplodes to prevent hopping on it - of course, that means it shatters constantly when people bump it and lag-clip through or something.

    I never plant my shield, since just aiming OVER it breaks the thing half the time. I guess my arm clips it? I agree it needs some work, but no balance necessary - minus the bugs, it would do exactly what it needs to.

    The team color glitch happens with board shields too. :(



  • Thanks for your reply.

    IMO, I’m not against map exploiting… it doesn’t give anyone a real advantage in most games anyway…
    They should find another way to prevent this, like it falls over or w/e.

    I personally never had a problem with the teamcolor bug, except for when someone else kills me caus of it xD



  • just a little bump so devs don’t miss this issue :P



  • I think the pavise is in a pretty terrible spot right now.

    Breaks when you run into it or step on it from higher elevation, last time I saw one get hit by a firepot it instantly broke, breaks in a couple of hits, and it’s not even that big.

    I very very rarely see anyone use it and when I do, it does almost nothing.



  • not to mention EVERYBODY knows where you are and waits for your head to pop up.


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