How do the parry mechanics work?



  • Hello all!

    I know there’s been discussion in a couple of threads at least generally about parrying/counterattack but either it was about other stuff too or focused on something more specific, so I thought it best to make a new thread instead of taking over an existing one.

    I’m having trouble getting used to the parry mechanics and I’d like further input, from more experienced players than myself, on that.

    Here’s how I think it works : If you “block” an incoming attack with a weapon (not a shield), aka parry, and attack at the right moment (when the weapons “clang” together) you will perform a faster than usual attack, aka counter-attack.
    Great but I haven’t seen it actually happen?!
    First of all I’m I correct when saying that you attack the moment the attack lands on your block? How “big” is this timeframe? Is it small enough so that a ~60ms ping difference between you can make you fail it?
    Secondly, how faster is this counter-attack? And how does it show? Does the whole swing animation play, but faster? Or does it just play the attack animation without the windup animation?
    Third, how fast should it be? Would a Knight with a sledgehammer be able to successfully counter an MAA with a dagger? Ok, maybe too extreme but you get my point.

    From what I’ve seen when playing the game, mind you this is different classes and weapons, most of the time there’s no noticeable difference in my swinging after a parry. Even less extreme cases, i.e. Pole axe vs Claymore, 50 vs 60 speed respectively, I’m unable to attack before the opponent can parry or, at “best”, we both swing and hit each other.
    There are rare cases when I see “good” players that seem to attack very fast after a parry. It’s almost always a thrust and in all cases there’s at least 50ms of ping difference between us (him having lower obviously). I’m not sure if these guys are pulling counter-attacks or it’s just the ping difference that “de-syncs” the animations. I asked this pretty cool guy to try and counter me with the sledgehammer and it indeed seemed to go faster but I couldn’t reproduce it for the life of me.
    Especially vs fast weapons parrying seems to not make a difference, in most cases, apart from blocking a hit. When getting swarmed by fast weapons like MMA’s or daggers while playing a “slow” class, the time window after a parry is too small to even pull a kick, and I either get hit again or my attack parried and begin anew.

    I’ll gladly accept any comments but please don’t patronize me the “Lol jast lrn 2 block” or “;earn how to feintt!!!111” way.



  • I didn’t notice when I started to get some solid timing behind my parry-counters. Just keep playing, keep trying and keep positive. I don’t know the statistics, the ‘actual way’ and stuff like that - but I do know that this game gets easier the more you play it. You’ll learn!



  • @sinister3vil:

    Hello all!

    I know there’s been discussion in a couple of threads at least generally about parrying/counterattack but either it was about other stuff too or focused on something more specific, so I thought it best to make a new thread instead of taking over an existing one.

    I’m having trouble getting used to the parry mechanics and I’d like further input, from more experienced players than myself, on that.

    Here’s how I think it works : If you “block” an incoming attack with a weapon (not a shield), aka parry, and attack at the right moment (when the weapons “clang” together) you will perform a faster than usual attack, aka counter-attack.
    Great but I haven’t seen it actually happen?!
    First of all I’m I correct when saying that you attack the moment the attack lands on your block? How “big” is this timeframe? Is it small enough so that a ~60ms ping difference between you can make you fail it?
    Secondly, how faster is this counter-attack? And how does it show? Does the whole swing animation play, but faster? Or does it just play the attack animation without the windup animation?
    Third, how fast should it be? Would a Knight with a sledgehammer be able to successfully counter an MAA with a dagger? Ok, maybe too extreme but you get my point.

    From what I’ve seen when playing the game, mind you this is different classes and weapons, most of the time there’s no noticeable difference in my swinging after a parry. Even less extreme cases, i.e. Pole axe vs Claymore, 50 vs 60 speed respectively, I’m unable to attack before the opponent can parry or, at “best”, we both swing and hit each other.
    There are rare cases when I see “good” players that seem to attack very fast after a parry. It’s almost always a thrust and in all cases there’s at least 50ms of ping difference between us (him having lower obviously). I’m not sure if these guys are pulling counter-attacks or it’s just the ping difference that “de-syncs” the animations. I asked this pretty cool guy to try and counter me with the sledgehammer and it indeed seemed to go faster but I couldn’t reproduce it for the life of me.
    Especially vs fast weapons parrying seems to not make a difference, in most cases, apart from blocking a hit. When getting swarmed by fast weapons like MMA’s or daggers while playing a “slow” class, the time window after a parry is too small to even pull a kick, and I either get hit again or my attack parried and begin anew.

    I’ll gladly accept any comments but please don’t patronize me the “Lol jast lrn 2 block” or “;earn how to feintt!!!111” way.

    As far as I know, your attack is not actually faster, but if you attack after a successful parry, it will cancel the recovery animation of the parry itself, which is much faster and harder to predict than waiting too long after a successful parry. Ping does play a significant role in swing animation though. I find it very difficult to play against people with 350+ ping, as they often hit me during their swing windups :/.

    I’d love to hear some input from some of the fellows closer to development, however.



  • As far as I know, parry-counters use separate timings than normal windups or combo attacks. They do seem a bit faster, and they can’t be feinted or flinched. The biggest advantage is you don’t go into recovery after your parry. If you know the other guy will predict your counter and throw up a parry of his own (I.E. you’ve been exchanging for a while), and you’re equipped with a fast weapon, you can intentionally miss the counterattack and go into a combo which will likely hit him before he can block again.



  • @Emerald The Monster

    Yeah sure, practice makes perfect, but the point was getting somewhat "hard’ data on the subject.

    @Derpasaur

    Amen, word from the devs would be great.

    @SlyGoat

    I’ve seen a lot of people immediately parrying after getting their attack blocked, expecting a counter-attack. I just wait for a sec and then attack, usually hits them fair and square.
    But, unless we’re taking about some extremely slow weapon, should this happen?

    Assume two players standing motionless and swinging the same 40% speed weapon at exactly the same time. Both will hit each other.
    Give them a speed difference in weapons and eventually one will always hit the other during windup and interrupt. Exaggerated example : dagger vs maul.
    Let’s say, the minimum required speed difference is 25%. Assuming that the fast weapon spams attack (and ignoring any bonus from combos) the slower weapon will never be able to land a hit cause he’ll always be interrupted. Does a successful parry and counter-attack allow you to overcome this “break point”?



  • @sinister3vil:

    @Emerald The Monster

    Yeah sure, practice makes perfect, but the point was getting somewhat "hard’ data on the subject.

    @Derpasaur

    Amen, word from the devs would be great.

    @SlyGoat

    I’ve seen a lot of people immediately parrying after getting their attack blocked, expecting a counter-attack. I just wait for a sec and then attack, usually hits them fair and square.
    But, unless we’re taking about some extremely slow weapon, should this happen?

    Assume two players standing motionless and swinging the same 40% speed weapon at exactly the same time. Both will hit each other.
    Give them a speed difference in weapons and eventually one will always hit the other during windup and interrupt. Exaggerated example : dagger vs maul.
    Let’s say, the minimum required speed difference is 25%. Assuming that the fast weapon spams attack (and ignoring any bonus from combos) the slower weapon will never be able to land a hit cause he’ll always be interrupted. Does a successful parry and counter-attack allow you to overcome this “break point”?

    Well, when you’re parried you can’t attack for .8 seconds, which is longer than any weapon windup in the game.



  • @sinister3vil:

    First of all I’m I correct when saying that you attack the moment the attack lands on your block? How “big” is this timeframe? Is it small enough so that a ~60ms ping difference between you can make you fail it?

    The counter-attack is very easy to pull off but might not be as fast as you think it is. A counter-attack can easily be blocked, but if your opponent attacks after being parried, your counter-attack should always land first and flinch them.

    What this means for combat is that you can perform a counter-attack at essentially no risk to yourself, but it might not always actually damage the enemy if he/she blocks. Now, if you wait a moment before your counter-attack, your opponent might attack immediately, in which case you’ve lost an opportunity to hit them. But if they parry, they’ll be wide open for an attack!

    The combat in Chivalry is all about out-predicting your opponent. If you think they will attack immediately after you parry, it’s best to counter-attack. If you think they will parry immediately after you parry, it’s best to wait and attack after you see them parry early.

    @sinister3vil:

    Secondly, how faster is this counter-attack? And how does it show? Does the whole swing animation play, but faster? Or does it just play the attack animation without the windup animation?

    As far as I know, it’s the standard swing animation but faster. Additionally, the enemy has a brief recovery period after being parried.
    @sinister3vil:

    Third, how fast should it be? Would a Knight with a sledgehammer be able to successfully counter an MAA with a dagger? Ok, maybe too extreme but you get my point.

    Again, as far as I know, even if you’re a knight with a Maul (the slowest melee weapon) and you counter-attack against a dagger, your strike will land before theirs. You might wind up “hit trading,” though, where both your attack hits and their attack hits. But since you’re the armored guy with the giant weapon, obviously this benefits you more than the MAA unless you are at very low health.



  • Great info SlyGoat and Rognik.

    So if you parry someone, even if you don’t follow up for an attack, you get a .8 second time window where the attacker can’t do anything.

    Counter-attacking, on the other hand, does not guarantee a hit, since it may be parried in return, but will always hit first. Depending on the speed difference between your weapons, it may sometimes lead to trading hits.

    So all in all, counter-attacks are good versus people that spam attacks but not a “hit always” button.



  • @sinister3vil:

    Great info SlyGoat and Rognik.

    Thanks!

    @sinister3vil:

    So if you parry someone, even if you don’t follow up for an attack, you get a .8 second time window where the attacker can’t do anything.

    Counter-attacking, on the other hand, does not guarantee a hit, since it may be parried in return, but will always hit first. Depending on the speed difference between your weapons, it may sometimes lead to trading hits.

    Sounds right, except I’m not sure about the trading hits thing; if you really want to know you might want to test it with a Maul vs. Dagger to see if the dagger can get a hit in while the knight counter-attacks.

    @sinister3vil:

    So all in all, counter-attacks are good versus people that spam attacks but not a “hit always” button.

    Pretty much. I usually use a counter-attack to see if they’ll parry, and if they do, the next time I parry I’ll delay the attack and/or feint because they’ll probably repeat what they did before.

    On public servers most players either just swing after getting parried or parry after getting parried. Usually you just need to figure out which type of player you’re fighting. Of course, if they’re actually a good duelist, there are a lot more possibilities, but that’s pretty rare in public (team) games. Encountering someone who actually feints regularly seems very rare to me. In any case, you need to be able to predict what your opponent will do to score hits. If you mess up and attack when they also attack, you can cancel your attack to parry, but that takes a precious split second and drains a lot of stamina.

    Oh, it’s also worth mentioning that counter-attacks can’t be canceled with Q or right click, for some reason, probably because the windup is just so quick. You’re locked into a counter-attack when you start the animation. That’s actually a good way to see if you’re counter-attacking; try to cancel the attack, and if it doesn’t work, you’ve performed a counter. It also means that if you want to do a feint, you need to delay your attack after parrying.



  • Well this discussion helped me a lot, not so much teaching me new stuff but rather removing any doubt I had about the mechanics. Hope it also helps other people.

    See you on the battlefield, gentlemen!



  • I’m not sure of the specifics in how it works, but I know the difference can be massive if you do it right. A lot of people aren’t used to people properly counter attacking after a parry, especially with a stab, it comes extremely fast. Just keep practicing attacking right after you parry, you’ll get the hang of it.



  • When I had a hatchet vs. a maul, I was parried and he counter-attacked, however I noticed his overhead was slow, and I could swing again, killing him, before he hit me, with a swing aimed to land at the beginning of my swing. Unfortunately, due to what I believe to be counter-attack mechanics, his maul overhead animation went into super fast forward mode to catch up, and clocked me with speed faster than a hatchet, which by the way is incredibly fast. So a counter-attack by a maul will out speed the fastest dagger, or fists, if my theory is correct.

    When using a maul, I use counter-attack to clock unsuspecting fast weapon users constantly.



  • @DeminRamst:

    When I had a hatchet vs. a maul, I was parried and he counter-attacked, however I noticed his overhead was slow, and I could swing again, killing him, before he hit me, with a swing aimed to land at the beginning of my swing. Unfortunately, due to what I believe to be counter-attack mechanics, his maul overhead animation went into super fast forward mode to catch up, and clocked me with speed faster than a hatchet, which by the way is incredibly fast. So a counter-attack by a maul will out speed the fastest dagger, or fists, if my theory is correct.

    When using a maul, I use counter-attack to clock unsuspecting fast weapon users constantly.

    Proper counter attacks will appear as though much of the wind-up has been skipped, the weapon will be sort of stuck at the beginning of the release animation for a very brief moment, and then fly out quickly.



  • should a heavy weapon parry a light weapon more?

    i can never win vs a dagger user who can parry.

    if i use a slow weapon, even if i RMB vs a dagger, i just get parried or stabbed.

    i always get hit or at best just exchange parries until i get hit.



  • You can easily beat a dagger user by just spamming attacks on them and parrying or outranging their counters. They’ll run out of stamina long before you do and then they’ll be stunned every time they parry an attack, meaning they can’t counterattack you.


Log in to reply