Dagger Nerf? (My suggestion)



  • Well my suggestion is that the dagger should have heavier stamina drain if they try blocking heavier weapons rather than taking very little drain as it does now, archers shouldn’t be able to spam the super fast dagger and kick and block so often

    one game they would kick 2-3 times and overhead stab a bunch of times, block, and repeats until you get hit or kicked and this should drain alot of stamina but no have enough to go non-stop until your hit and since your most likely stunned any swings would get interrupted or blocked easily with plenty of stamina left after the blocks. Anyone that doesn’t get staggered/stun-ed they kick and stab combo you to death. More and more archers are getting to this sorta style now

    Some can even fight 2 vs the 1 archer and kill them all unless its a vanguard charge and if their not looking but if the archer blocks it the same same outcome happens cause their both staggered but the archer would still be able to block the next strike and kick and start the overhead backstab combo and have enough stamina to keep kicking him before any swings starts before the archer even run outta stamina, since blocking wont drain too much and their backstab bonus works crazy well with overhead stabs along with the speed in getting many more hits in before they even swing again after the block and having stamina to kick often

    My opinion is bowman and crossbowman shouldn’t be able to fight so long in melee fights because their class isn’t a melee class and the secondary weapon should be seen as a backup weapon for protection against small skirmishes with a person running at them and they already should be agile enough to stay at a distance anyway so if they let them in close they shouldn’t be in equal grounds with melee classes and should be punished accordingly into getting in a melee fight. A bigger stamina drain in the blocks against heavier weapons and standard melee class weapons should do the same but not as much of a stamina drain as heavy weapons blocking, it really should be added, archers shouldn’t be seen as a Man-At-Arms hybrid where you can shoot from a distance and be still good enough to fight long battles in a melee fight.

    I’m already annoyed they can exploit a bug where they can still get hits in even if your using the biggest shield raised aimed at their overhead stabs and you have it in front of you, if they stick really closed to your face they will still get the hits through which is sorta lame, only had this happen occasionally so I don’t know if that is a bug or not or even my imagination.

    please don’t hate my post, it is only my suggestion



  • I have seen many topics about weapons that should be buffed or nerfed, but I never thought I would ever lay my eyes upon a post with the title explaining that someone believes that the Archer & Man-at arm’s daggers should be nerfed. I have to say that I 100% disagree and just because you are fighting Archers as a spamming Knight or vanguard or whatever, that doesn’t mean that the Archer should always die to your swing spam. I fave everyone who does well with the daggers, and I have to say that you got pretty much over-runned which is a simple tactic in this game, and its not the daggers fault, its your own! Please go and practice a little bit more before you carry on with this subject, try fighting anyone with dagger yourself.

    Daggers are small and rapid, thus means they are very hard to detect or block against. But regardless of that, they really lack range and aswell power into their quick cuts or thrusts, thus means that it will take them more hits to take out someone, while they only need about two or three. This might be a fact that most would not believe, but based upon my own opinion. I feel a completely different type of pressure to feints based upon which weapon I am using, if I’m using a dagger versus a longsword, I know that I need to travel far into his swing-radius / feint radius in hope to get a hit, while he can hit me from distance, so that really applies pressure to me as a dagger user, BUT if I by any chance manage to get close, that’s when I finally have the advantage with my rapid attacks, I can easily trap my opponent in a combo that keeps him flinched (If not this stupid game’s glitch idle flinch aquires) or if he manages to snap out from it and fight back. However in this occasion, you got trapped in the combo, deal with it, practice and you’ll see that its more like your fault for that it happend, and not the weapon.



  • This really is a simple case of a weapons strength being used effectively
    Archers may have access to missile weapons such as the bow and crossbow
    but they still have short swords and daggers, the archers shouldn’t be punished in melee combat because their limited range kinda does that already

    Rather, the block strength system should be implemented properly, right now all weapons have a 100% block including daggers, so instead of asking for a nerf to a class, ask instead for this mechanic to implemented in full, as it should



  • @wildwulfy:

    I have seen many topics about weapons that should be buffed or nerfed, but I never thought I would ever lay my eyes upon a post with the title explaining that someone believes that the Archer & Man-at arm’s daggers should be nerfed. I have to say that I 100% disagree and just because you are fighting Archers as a spamming Knight or vanguard or whatever, that doesn’t mean that the Archer should always die to your swing spam. I fave everyone who does well with the daggers, and I have to say that you got pretty much over-runned which is a simple tactic in this game, and its not the daggers fault, its your own! Please go and practice a little bit more before you carry on with this subject, try fighting anyone with dagger yourself.

    Daggers are small and rapid, thus means they are very hard to detect or block against. But regardless of that, they really lack range and aswell power into their quick cuts or thrusts, thus means that it will take them more hits to take out someone, while they only need about two or three. This might be a fact that most would not believe, but based upon my own opinion. I feel a completely different type of pressure to feints based upon which weapon I am using, if I’m using a dagger versus a longsword, I know that I need to travel far into his swing-radius / feint radius in hope to get a hit, while he can hit me from distance, so that really applies pressure to me as a dagger user, BUT if I by any chance manage to get close, that’s when I finally have the advantage with my rapid attacks, I can easily trap my opponent in a combo that keeps him flinched (If not this stupid game’s glitch idle flinch aquires) or if he manages to snap out from it and fight back. However in this occasion, you got trapped in the combo, deal with it, practice and you’ll see that its more like your fault for that it happend, and not the weapon.

    if you actually read it, i asked for a stamina nerf regarding blocking heavier attacks. They take very little stamina drain in parries/blocks which seems dumb since how can anyone parry heavier weapon without some penalty using a tiny weapon and bigger stamina drain balance it out abit, didn’t ask for anything else, did not ask for damage or speed or any other sort of other nerf so back off dude.

    Its like using a sledge hammer against a knife do you think in real life, could your hand withstand blocking one swing using just one hand to hold the knife without using more strength than you would normally would in other encounters?

    If you didn’t get it, their daggers can clip pass shields when they do overhead windup attack with daggers in the closest proximity to you. If you tried daggers they actually clip through shields despite being fully raised with overhead attacks and this includes the full tower shield and they don’t run around you but full on run straight at you using nothing but overheads, if you don’t believe it try it yourself and let a archer get in close that does this and you’ll find out it is true or spectate and and at some point you will see the clipping through the shields as well. I’ll try and record video proof next time if you still didn’t encounter it. Heck there’s even vanguards where they can instant full damage hit you during the start of a windup attack if they aim their weapon a certain way

    beside you just said their fast with daggers so whats the problem with a little more stamina drain against heavier weapons?
    if they block and do what you said it shouldn’t matter to you if all their strikes hit (if it hits no stamina drain afterall) and they already got back-stab 50% bonus, fast striking weapons, and range attacks that can either one shot you or drain almost all your health so wheres their disadvantage when they take next to nothing in stamina drain with blocks/parries?

    Archer shouldn’t be able to sustain multiple melee encounters in such short of a time and stay in its supporting role as an archer, if they do they probably already recovered their stamina if another charges at them rather than the archer being the one charging in



  • I want daggers buffed. They apparently don’t exist in competitive games. If you pick one over a Shortsword/Cudgel right now, you are only gimping yourself.



  • @wildwulfy:

    …its not the daggers fault, its your own! Please go and practice a little bit …

    I second that.
    I don’t really see how you’d come into fighting so many archers melee as they are usually camping some corner and look for pairs to pry on. - Unless you were hunting on them.

    And while the dagger can oddly block weapons like the sledge hammer or the halberd which makes no sense realistically, it does make a-lot of game mechanics sense. - Since archers are already going to die if you catch them by surprise and land a three slash combo on them with the default MAA sword.

    I think your issue is in the footing and perhaps forgetting that you can also kick back, feign your attack, do a combo where the first swing is a deliberant miss or jump and look down to hit them from 90 degree up, flank them to the side, draw them into a bottleneck, back up and let them draw their bow out before charging in to smash them, press X X 3 to taunt them or switching to fists (4 in keyboard) and delivering hook punches with MWU then MWD in a combo.

    Did you try all these before you posted here?



  • @User:

    @wildwulfy:

    …its not the daggers fault, its your own! Please go and practice a little bit …



  • Lets just give them Rocket launchers like in Q3 settle it. :D



  • Agree with the post, something needs to be done about “dagger spamming attacks”. It is just plain wrong that dagger bearer spam stun heavy knight in most of the situations. First its unrealistic and second it involves no skill, it is ruining the game atm, plain simple.



  • @Falc:

    @User:

    @wildwulfy:

    …its not the daggers fault, its your own! Please go and practice a little bit …



  • You may embed only 3 quotes within each other.

    :(





  • @User:

    @wildwulfy:

    …its not the daggers fault, its your own! Please go and practice a little bit …

    yea definitely, you can practice using screwdriver to use as a hammer, and you might succeed after 10 years of nailing nails with the screwdriver that you actually won’t need a hammer…

    I’m talking about something that is illogical and unrealistic in a game setting that tries hard to bring some sort of medieval combat simulation to gamers that are interested in such a thing



  • I second the OP’s idea. Archer is a ranged class, not melee, and should not be given the benefits conferred to a melee class.

    A block with a dagger (or the lighter secondaries for that matter) should pretty much drain your entire stamina bar, and that’s fair because the dagger is a backup weapon.

    Bottomline: If you want to fight melee as an archer, be prepared to be seriously disadvantaged.



  • @Wangmaster:

    Bottomline: If you want to fight melee as an archer, be prepared to be seriously disadvantaged.

    His speed and armour are enough disadvantage.



  • @guardiandivine:

    @User:

    @wildwulfy:

    …its not the daggers fault, its your own! Please go and practice a little bit …

    yea definitely, you can practice using screwdriver to use as a hammer, and you might succeed after 10 years of nailing nails with the screwdriver that you actually won’t need a hammer…

    I’m talking about something that is illogical and unrealistic in a game setting that tries hard to bring some sort of medieval combat simulation to gamers that are interested in such a thing

    Right, we could say that the screwdriver are the daggers, and the hammer is any regular weapon a average public player would use, now it would be of course harder to use a screwdriver to nail the materials, not to mention that it would require way more skills & experience in order to do so well, same is about the daggers and any other weapons. You say that it seems illogical that a piece of metal can block against another piece of metal, IF they were to implant a such mechanism that daggers couldn’t NOT parry weapons that are heavier, then I assure you I will become a King with my Maul, cause surely ALL the weapons will get a coding for that aswell then! Also pay attention to the block animation of the daggers, looks more like an “Deflect” animation to make it seem more reasonable, ANY weapon can be used to deflect other weapons away so that they don’t land their hits, that’s what the Defensive / blocking dagger was used back in medieval times.

    True that the daggers can be a spammers favourite tool, although despite of that fact, its easy to snap out of its spamming because of the fact that flinch timer does NOT restart or stack when the player is already flinched. If you try to land three hits onto your opponent quickly, you may find him swing his deadly weapon at you as you prepare your third swing, you probably thought he would not be able to attack due to flinch for every attack, but you may be proven wrong, so spamming with daggers leads to a surely soon death by any LMB spammer. I totally disagree with that daggers are overpowered or needs a nerf, if anything! it needs a buff. Just because they are daggers doesn’t mean they are suppose to be utterly shity, as for myself, I love using the dagger due to its speed which is basically my only advantage as dagger user.



  • @wildwulfy:

    Right, we could say that the screwdriver are the daggers, and the hammer is any regular weapon a average public player would use, now it would be of course harder to use a screwdriver to nail the materials, not to mention that it would require way more skills & experience in order to do so well, same is about the daggers and any other weapons. You say that it seems illogical that a piece of metal can block against another piece of metal, IF they were to implant a such mechanism that daggers couldn’t NOT parry weapons that are heavier, then I assure you I will become a King with my Maul, cause surely ALL the weapons will get a coding for that aswell then! Also pay attention to the block animation of the daggers, looks more like an “Deflect” animation to make it seem more reasonable, ANY weapon can be used to deflect other weapons away so that they don’t land their hits, that’s what the Defensive / blocking dagger was used back in medieval times.

    True that the daggers can be a spammers favourite tool, although despite of that fact, its easy to snap out of its spamming because of the fact that flinch timer does NOT restart or stack when the player is already flinched. If you try to land three hits onto your opponent quickly, you may find him swing his deadly weapon at you as you prepare your third swing, you probably thought he would not be able to attack due to flinch for every attack, but you may be proven wrong, so spamming with daggers leads to a surely soon death by any LMB spammer. I totally disagree with that daggers are overpowered or needs a nerf, if anything! it needs a buff. Just because they are daggers doesn’t mean they are suppose to be utterly shity, as for myself, I love using the dagger due to its speed which is basically my only advantage as dagger user.

    Have you tried blocking a sledgehammer with a butterknife before? If i doesn’t destroy your hand, your arm will be sore, if not dislocated. I think a large stamina drop is an adequate simulation of these effects.



  • You obivously haven’t paid too much attention to the dagger “Parry” animation, it looks more like a the dagger is trying to deflect incomming attacks rather than trying to perfom a solid parry / block. Not to mention that you drain around 25% of the dagger users stamina if he parries your blow, also if the game were suppose to be realistic, then you wouldn’t even be able to block properly or lower your guard like nothing happend after your weapon or your shield has been hit by a maul.

    Isn’t it also unrealistic that polearms or weapons that has a wooden shaft can block any blows without breaking? Why is it like that? YES, its because this is a game, and it has been balanced in that way.

    Now I suggest you to go and practice with dagger so that you may see yourself that daggers are pretty weak but quite alright. It can never do as much work as a proper weapon can, can it? so why does it ever need a balance? for realism sake? then there would be more than just daggers that would follow that list!



  • +1 wolfy

    I guess this crap will never stop :/ mommy they haz daggerz! So mean! You have to be real pathetic if you get to play with mauls and then you’re beaten by butterknifes… Maybe archers should kill you with a cup instead, but then you will cry cups are OP.



  • Maybe the issue might be less about stamina and more about the area the dagger covers on its parry and how long the parrying part of the animation lasts? Since done right, I’m sure a dagger could be used to deflect most of the weapons, though it would require a lot of skill to do so.


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