Default STAB to LMB



  • This simple, single change would perhaps cut down all of the new-player related TK’ing by, well, a lot. New players instinctively left click spam, as its easier to remember how to do than mouse scrolling (or learn about the mouse wheel if they haven’t played the tutorial).

    Its simple enough to rebind the keys for anyone that has played the game for any length of time, but making the default attack STAB would right out of the gate get new players to stop slashing their teammates to death.

    Or default it to overhead if part of the intention to lmb is to get new players to combo right off the bat.



  • That probably would actually make a difference. Definitely seen quite a few players that NEVER use stab or overhead.

    I think it would be better if new players have to learn/discover or actively think about combos rather than just naturally mashing it out.



  • Just looking at your sig amuses me in the context of LMB spamming ;o



  • But now you’re trying to govern how other players play to make your lives easier (in the form of less TKs).

    I’d vote no on setting this precedent, much like I do when my own government tries it. Swinging attacks are easier to land, which introduces new players into the game. Your suggestion argues that new players are acting “new” and should be defaulted to an attack that increases their initial difficulty to ease your experience.

    Nope.

    Being the experienced players that you are, perhaps stop trying to 2v1 your opponents with these new players? Perhaps know that they’ll swing and time your stabs/overheads accordingly? Perhaps switch teams or find another server that better suits your rank?

    Plenty of options besides governing how new players play.



  • @JHoersten2:

    Being the experienced players that you are, perhaps stop trying to 2v1 your opponents with these new players?

    Go forth nublet minions! Kill them all for me. :king:



  • @JHoersten2:

    But now you’re trying to govern how other players play to make your lives easier (in the form of less TKs).

    Everyone does this after they’ve been tk’d by someone slashing beside them. “Use mouse up/down when near teammates!”, and the typical response is “oh, sorry, I didn’t know that, I just started!”. New players SHOULD learn to not slash teammates standing next to them.

    @JHoersten2:

    Swinging attacks are easier to land, which introduces new players into the game. Your suggestion argues that new players are acting “new” and should be defaulted to an attack that increases their initial difficulty to ease your experience.

    It isn’t as if this change would remove their ability to use slash attacks, it is now simply on a different button. A quick run through the tutorial and they would know of the existence of slash.

    @JHoersten2:

    Being the experienced players that you are, perhaps stop trying to 2v1 your opponents with these new players? Perhaps know that they’ll swing and time your stabs/overheads accordingly? Perhaps switch teams or find another server that better suits your rank?

    There isn’t much one can do when a new player runs up and thinks they are trying to help you and then proceed to lop your head off. Or any other situation in which a teammate ends up assisting you in some form.



  • What about adding a new scene to the tutorial where you fight 2 guys with an NPC ally, in that scene you’re told how you should avoid hitting allies when fighting together, how to do team work, etc.



  • @Endeav:

    Just looking at your sig amuses me in the context of LMB spamming ;o

    Fair point….I’ve amended the caption accordingly! :D



  • This is… fucking good idea.



  • I actually feel Overhead should be LMB. But the jist of this idea, I like.



  • @ChizFreak:

    What about adding a new scene to the tutorial where you fight 2 guys with an NPC ally, in that scene you’re told how you should avoid hitting allies when fighting together, how to do team work, etc.

    This. I was disturbed by a lack of explanation about friendly fire in the tutorial.



  • @Endeav:

    This simple, single change would perhaps cut down all of the new-player related TK’ing by, well, a lot. New players instinctively left click spam, as its easier to remember how to do than mouse scrolling (or learn about the mouse wheel if they haven’t played the tutorial).

    @Endeav:

    Everyone does this after they’ve been tk’d by someone slashing beside them. “Use mouse up/down when near teammates!”, and the typical response is “oh, sorry, I didn’t know that, I just started!”. New players SHOULD learn to not slash teammates standing next to them.

    It isn’t as if this change would remove their ability to use slash attacks, it is now simply on a different button. A quick run through the tutorial and they would know of the existence of slash.

    First, you’re saying that overhead should be LMB because new players don’t remember how to use the mouse-wheel. Second, you’re saying that it’s not a big deal because players will use the mouse wheel after taking the tutorial.

    Why can’t they learn to overhead by taking the tutorial? There’s no reason to rebind default keys when every new player has the opportunity to take this tutorial and learn the buttons. Again, this boils down to swings being easiest to land, thus the default attack. It’s just ridiculous to use the tutorial to back up your claim of players learning the swing attack, but completely ignore it for them to learn the overhead/stab attacks.

    As I said before, there are plenty of options to avoid TKing without punishing new players for their lack of experience. The burden should fall onto us for prevention, not them for not knowing any better.



  • @JHoersten2:

    First, you’re saying that overhead should be LMB because new players don’t remember how to use the mouse-wheel.

    I’m saying that when a new player starts the game, having done the tutorial or not, and they up to an enemy player, they will instinctively left click. Its the primary attack button in almost every game, so they will mash the button without thought as to what it actually does.

    @JHoersten2:

    Second, you’re saying that it’s not a big deal because players will use the mouse wheel after taking the tutorial.

    I’m saying that they will know of the existence of slash after playing the tutorial and may experiment with it, your original assertion was that we would be depriving them of the slash ability by taking it off LMB.

    @JHoersten2:

    There’s no reason to rebind default keys when every new player has the opportunity to take this tutorial and learn the buttons.

    The point isn’t about learning the buttons, its about placing something that doesn’t TK people on the button most people will push out of instinct. Everyone did this, even after playing the tutorial, until they did a couple rounds with multiple TK’s or people yelling at them in the chat to stop left clicking in groups of teammates.

    @JHoersten2:

    Again, this boils down to swings being easiest to land, thus the default attack. It’s just ridiculous to use the tutorial to back up your claim of players learning the swing attack, but completely ignore it for them to learn the overhead/stab attacks.

    You could easily assert that it is easier to land stabs than slashes for certain weapons, this is just a subjective thing. (i.e. spear slashes vs stabs, 1h sword stabs with their extra reach vs their extremely short slash ranges, anyways I digress. As for learning about the attacks, that isn’t the point; the point is, most people left click to attack people. If the devs originally made left clicking stab/overhead, no one would’ve said anything about slashes being easier to land and thus should be on left click.

    @JHoersten2:

    As I said before, there are plenty of options to avoid TKing without punishing new players for their lack of experience. The burden should fall onto us for prevention, not them for not knowing any better.

    So we should exclude from playing in all the Official 32p servers because the new players are all going to tk us and/or switch teams?



  • @Endeav:

    You could easily assert that it is easier to land stabs than slashes for certain weapons, this is just a subjective thing. (i.e. spear slashes vs stabs, 1h sword stabs with their extra reach vs their extremely short slash ranges, anyways I digress. As for learning about the attacks, that isn’t the point; the point is, most people left click to attack people. If the devs originally made left clicking stab/overhead, no one would’ve said anything about slashes being easier to land and thus should be on left click.

    Right here is your fallacy. It’s even included in the loading screen tips that slashes are easier to land. (Swings are easier to land, stabs have more reach, and overheads do more damage). So yes, it has been said, by the devs, no less. Please don’t make arguments contradicting the devs and game mechanics. Slashing will always be easier to land than a stab, simply due to the arc of the swing vs one point of impact; the same goes for overheads.

    New players are defaulted with the easiest swing to land, because they’re new players. This isn’t rocket science, it’s basic gameplay. You are trying to change this so that new players have a slightly more difficult time learning the game to save yourself some team-originating damage, due to not being situationally aware yourself. If things changed to how you suggest, we’d hear nothing but raging in chat from new players about how hard it is and this/that is OP, etc etc. No thank you.



  • The major problem I see with this is that stab absolutely sucks for some weapons. Your LMB attack should be effective no matter what weapon you have chosen. While swings are sub-optimal for some weapons, they still do damage. Stabs on some of the blunt weapons do terrible damage. Although I would be okay with overhead on LMB, I don’t think there are any terrible overhead attacks.



  • I would be kinda hard to get used to, I mean, stabs and overheads are purely vertical strikes, much like scrolling up and down with the mouse wheel. Its just intuitive that way, which is how I think the devs intended.

    You want to stop TKs? Stop rushing in to kill steal every poor bastard already engaged in melee, respect that someone else already has taken on the opponent! Its called CHIVALRY, medieval warfare, not Gank, medieval warfare!



  • I don’t see a point in this idea:

    • You can set your keybindings to your liking. This alone defeats any change to the default attacks…

    • People will use the most powerful attack (or what they think the most powerful attack is) no matter what changes. People can and will adapt to a new situation.

    New players are defaulted with the easiest swing to land, because they’re new players. This isn’t rocket science, it’s basic gameplay.

    Actually there is a tutorial where you learn about different kinds of attacks so you aren’t “defaulted with the easiest swing to land”. People just don’t play tutorial and jump straight into combat, trying to “learn on fly”.

    As for learning about the attacks, that isn’t the point; the point is, most people left click to attack people.

    If you change swing button they’ll use different button. You won’t change much. Since this isn’t about learning about the attacks then there is no reason to change anything…



  • @Holy.Death:

    If you change swing button they’ll use different button. You won’t change much. Since this isn’t about learning about the attacks then there is no reason to change anything…

    The idea is that new players mash lmb, they don’t mash lmb because its slash, they mash lmb because its lmb. If LMB was overhead or slash, they wouldn’t be spamming slash and tk’ing everyone around them. It’d also help them learn to actually aim strikes.



  • @Wangmaster:

    You want to stop TKs? Stop rushing in to kill steal every poor bastard already engaged in melee, respect that someone else already has taken on the opponent!

    Yeah but isn’t it usually the guy rushing in to kill steal from YOU that causes the TKs? You can’t help if someone rushes into YOUR fight with their LMB swings.



  • I’m all for this idea.

    Some people here seem to think preventing TK is the victim’s responsibility instead of the TKer. 99% of the times I’ve been TKd have been due to a friendly player running into a 1v1 fight I was previously engaged in and pressing LMB, stealing my kill and killing me at the same time. They don’t do this because they want to do a horizontal swing, they do this because they want to attack quickly so they just press LMB in a panic. Changing LMB to default as overhead would help everyone. You’re not punishing anyone by doing this, everyone can just rebind. Horizontal slash might be the easiest to land, but it’s also the easiest to block and doesn’t do as much damage as overhead and it’s a good introduction for new players that may be getting tired of accidently hitting team mates themselves.


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