Increased draw time on the warbow has ruined it.



  • Ever since the last patch I feel that all I am doing is playing melee archer when using the warbow. You are able to get one shot off before the enemy is on top of you and you need to switch to your secondary. If you attempt to fire a second arrow you are decapitated during your 20 minute draw time. If you do not land that first shot you have to do a perfect melee battle and hope his first move isn’t a feint; attack because you will be decapitated then as well.

    I feel this nerf was brought on by newer players complaining about archers without attempting to use any of the counters to them. The tower shield makes it virtually impossible to be hit by an arrow. All other shields mostly leave feet shots open which means you have to land 3 or 4 hits to kill. But what about vanguard? archers are suppose to counter them but can’t kill them fast enough anymore so you have 24 man servers where 8 people on each team are vanguard now spamming stab stab stab.

    I’m sure people will want to argue that the archer is a (support class). I do not see it that way and that mentality is what causes a lot of team killing from archer fire. You shouldn’t be forced to sit behind battling teammates and fire random arrows at the people they are fighting while hoping it hits the enemy and not a teammate. The way I use the archer is to get to the front and weaken the incoming enemy players for my teammates before they start fighting each other. With the current slow draw time this is impossible to do now.

    Now you might say (try the other bows they fire faster). They do have a faster draw time but you in turn will need to land more arrows in turn creating the same problem. The short bow feels like you are throwing paper airplanes at people the projectile speed is so slow. If any class runs straight at you and you hit them with 3 arrows by the time you draw the 4th you are dead. The long bow isn’t far off. I don’t understand why the longbow and shortbow were nerfed anyway. They were horrible to begin with. (In the long run it doesn’t really matter because the warbow is basically the only option for archer besides javs / xbows).



  • On the contrary, the Warbow still stands strong in competitive play, perhaps too strong. The same can’t be said for the other 8 Archer primary weapons though (at least in comparison to the Warbow). We fought in a clan match the other day, 8v8 TO and two Warbow Archers in the opposing team took the top spots on both Attack and Defense and luckily for us, one of them became King.



  • I’m sure people will want to argue that the archer is a (support class). I do not see it that way and that mentality is what causes a lot of team killing from archer fire. You shouldn’t be forced to sit behind battling teammates and fire random arrows at the people they are fighting while hoping it hits the enemy and not a teammate. The way I use the archer is to get to the front and weaken the incoming enemy players for my teammates before they start fighting each other. With the current slow draw time this is impossible to do now.

    Shortbow is a kind of weapon you’d use in such situation - I am capable of landing my arrows well enough that I don’t kill friendlies and I flinch/kill enemies, helping my team that way. Because the enemy is already engaged I don’t need to worry about being attacked and I can stay close enough. Using warbow in same situation is just wrong in my opinion.

    I don’t understand why the longbow and shortbow were nerfed anyway. They were horrible to begin with. (In the long run it doesn’t really matter because the warbow is basically the only option for archer besides javs / xbows).

    For killing power versus draw time/reload time I prefered longbow while shortbow is more a support weapon (more assists, less kills). Heavy crossbow is the one I use against long range archers. Still, I see a plenty of archers doing well in game, using warbow mostly. The problem isn’t the draw time on the warbow, it’s how you use it.



  • @Conceived:

    I’m sure people will want to argue that the archer is a (support class). I do not see it that way and that mentality is what causes a lot of team killing from archer fire. You shouldn’t be forced to sit behind battling teammates and fire random arrows at the people they are fighting while hoping it hits the enemy and not a teammate. The way I use the archer is to get to the front and weaken the incoming enemy players for my teammates before they start fighting each other. With the current slow draw time this is impossible to do now.

    I’m sorry to disappoint you but an archer IS a support class, not a freaking stormtrooper. The only reason people succeed in CQB as an archer is because they’re good at it, and judging from your complaints, I don’t think you’re cut out for that role.

    And for the record, the warbow is balanced. Power or speed, choose one, or go play javelin if you can’t decide.



  • IMHO, the warbow is a medicore weapon in terms of how hard / easy it is to be effective with it. The easiest is the shortbow followed by the longbow, because these are a bit easier to use and surve slightly different purposes.
    Bows make their targets flinch horribly (I believe you can’t even parry after an arrow hit) and a good Shortbow archer can abuse this so enemies will never be able to fight their melee encounters. You can almost join the melee lines with it because it lets you swap to melee weapon almost instantly, which means you have hardly any risk in using it.
    The Longbow is your #1 mobility and allrounder weapon. Able to effectivly kill targets (unlike the shortbow) with relativly high ammo, and easy to aim arrow speed. My bow of choice for the attacking team in most objectives. It is a lonewolf-archers weapon, because it has the least disadvatnages (actually no at all) of all ranged weapons.
    Warbow is your killer weapon but it is the slowest and hardest to hit with (slowest arrows). You can’t get as close as you might want due to how long it takes switching to melee and it has the slowest rate of fire. Still it is way faster than any crossbows (1.4 sec vs 2.5 for the light crossbow). Also it does insane damage, so you can potentially oneshot most of your targets even if you’re using the ‘wrong’ arrows. It is the best weapon to counter heavy knight team due to it’s dps. In return you somewhat depend on your team to provide relyable cover. This trade off is already inbuilt in clansetups, because they will protect their archers regardless of their weapon choice. That’s the reason why you’ll mostly go for the warbow in these matches: It is a weapon that is more effective than it’s alternatives IF you can rely on your team.

    You clearly have not player much with the crossbows yet. The normal crossbow is perfect to counter enemy archers, but the light crossbow seems utterly useless and the heavy crossbow is soooo daaaaaamn hard to play effective with. Sure you can take out archers and some maa if your team is decend enough, but the basic crossbow has a better rof and it’s velocity is already enough for archerhunting. To be effective with heavy crossbow against knight and vanguard heavy teams and / or when you can’t expect any help from your team requires extreme skill (compared to how easily the other archer weapons become effective). It’s almost impossible to turn the tide of a match with this weapon, all you can basically do is prey on your winning teams victims.
    That’s why I literally play melee archer with a heavy crossbow as backup weapon. It works well on pubs, but you can image how hard this is to keep up in clanmatches :?
    Even if you have a good team, it does not nearly as much take advantage of it as warbow does… The point is, crossbows are in a far worse spot than the warbow atm, so it can’t possibly be the worst weapon around ^^



  • @Conceived:

    during your 20 minute draw time.

    I stopped reading right here. If you’re going to exaggerate such basic of facts, how can I be sure any of the text’s remainder is close to accurate?



  • It’s actually really OP in public games and clan battles, both TO and LTS. You should get better at something before saying it sucks. You’re just a low rank low time played so you don’t know what you’re talking about. Once you play with it more, you’ll realize just how OP it is. I suck at archer and even I top KDs and score with it sometimes. Also, don’t forget to use broadheads always, never bodkin.

    http://sadpanda.us/images/1305017-7ZEEEVW.jpg

    Just imagine it with someone who doesn’t suck at archer.



  • @Martin:

    On the contrary, the Warbow still stands strong in competitive play, perhaps too strong. The same can’t be said for the other 8 Archer primary weapons though (at least in comparison to the Warbow). We fought in a clan match the other day, 8v8 TO and two Warbow Archers in the opposing team took the top spots on both Attack and Defense and luckily for us, one of them became King.

    I’m not sure if you must meet certain class requirements in competitive play but if you just dedicated a knight with a tower shield to rush at the archer each time, the archer would have the lowest score each time(remove teammate archer and add another knight). Not only does he not stand a chance against the knight in melee since he has no chance of weakening him before battle, he can’t out run him either. Because of the game mechanic where you put your crosshair on the player you are chasing and you catch up to them.

    And for the record, the warbow is balanced. Power or speed, choose one, or go play javelin if you can’t decide.

    I do not see how it is balanced. Example: 1v1 a knight vs archer. They both start on each side of the map. The knight will close the distance easily without taking a hit if he has a shield. Now you are just left with a melee battle. If the knight isn’t a newer player and knows how to play he will win the majority of the time.

    I stopped reading right here. If you’re going to exaggerate such basic of facts, how can I be sure any of the text’s remainder is close to accurate?

    I exaggerated it to make the point that it is too much of a nerf. Of course I know the actual numbers but I can tell by your attitude toward archers that you wouldn’t post anything of relevance anyway. You are one of the people that would just like to see 12 knights vs 12 knights each map.

    It’s actually really OP in public games and clan battles, both TO and LTS. You should get better at something before saying it sucks. You’re just a low rank low time played so you don’t know what you’re talking about. Once you play with it more, you’ll realize just how OP it is. I suck at archer and even I top KDs and score with it sometimes. Also, don’t forget to use broadheads always, never bodkin.

    http://sadpanda.us/images/1305017-7ZEEEVW.jpg

    Just imagine it with someone who doesn’t suck at archer.

    I assure you I am quite good with the archer and have been playing since age of chivalry and I am ranked fairly high. However the screenshot you posted does show a majority of new players on the opposing team and your team clearly has the advantage in melee combat so you need only stand near the middle of combat and pick away at them uncontested. Instead do that in a server where your team is losing the melee battle the majority of the time and see what your score is.



  • @Conceived:

    @Martin:

    On the contrary, the Warbow still stands strong in competitive play, perhaps too strong. The same can’t be said for the other 8 Archer primary weapons though (at least in comparison to the Warbow). We fought in a clan match the other day, 8v8 TO and two Warbow Archers in the opposing team took the top spots on both Attack and Defense and luckily for us, one of them became King.

    I’m not sure if you must meet certain class requirements in competitive play but if you just dedicated a knight with a tower shield to rush at the archer each time, the archer would have the lowest score each time(remove teammate archer and add another knight). Not only does he not stand a chance against the knight in melee since he has no chance of weakening him before battle, he can’t out run him either. Because of the game mechanic where you put your crosshair on the player you are chasing and you catch up to them.

    I think you’re mistaking this for a 1v1 game. In what world can you rush an archer with your shield up without his team killing you?



  • I think you’re mistaking this for a 1v1 game. In what world can you rush an archer with your shield up without his team killing you?

    Simple numbers game here. Example: 3 knights vs 2 knights + 1 archer. you are leaving one knight free to chase. In less of course you mean the archer is simply going to stand next to the respawn all map rendering him useless already.



  • @Conceived:

    I think you’re mistaking this for a 1v1 game. In what world can you rush an archer with your shield up without his team killing you?

    Simple numbers game here. Example: 3 knights vs 2 knights + 1 archer. you are leaving one knight free to chase. In less of course you mean the archer is simply going to stand next to the respawn all map rendering him useless already.

    TO will never be 3v3, and you can stand outside spawn all game if you want in LTS, where archers are especially powerful.

    In TO to counter an archer as melee on defense you need to leave the objective you’re defending and run past the wave of oncoming attackers to kill the archer. To counter an archer on offense you need to rush past the heavily defended objective, and then the archer can just parry your attacks while his team surrounds and kills you.

    Any time an archer is being isolated and solod by a melee class it’s because of player error and bad positioning on the part of the archer.



  • TO will never be 3v3, and you can stand outside spawn all game if you want in LTS, where archers are especially powerful.

    I never said TO would be 3v3 I was just giving you an example. Whether its 3v3 or 8v8 its the same. In LTS there is no spawn so your teammates won’t be saving you from the knight who if uses feints will easily kill an archer once in range.

    In TO to counter an archer as melee on defense you need to leave the objective you’re defending and run past the wave of oncoming attackers to kill the archer. To counter an archer on offense you need to rush past the heavily defended objective, and then the archer can just parry your attacks while his team surrounds and kills you.

    If teams are even in TO and you have enough teammates alive to combat the enemies at the objective and there is an archer sitting back then one knight can advance on him. If his teammates try to run back and protect the archer your teammates in turn will be smashing them in the back. I would hope you could communicate that on voice coms. Similar to a linebacker spying a quarterback in football. If a teammate gets a kill he can advance towards the archer as well and pick up the extra guy coming from the spawn. Best defense is a good offense.

    Any time an archer is being isolated and solod by a melee class it’s because of player error and bad positioning on the part of the archer.

    Against an evenly matched team you can be isolated easily. LTS should always come down to 1v1 in that sense. I gave an example of TO above… 5v5 leaves one knight free to attack the archer if teams are even…



  • @Conceived:

    Against an evenly matched team you can be isolated easily. LTS should always come down to 1v1 in that sense. I gave an example of TO above… 5v5 leaves one knight free to attack the archer if teams are even…

    OP, as I mentioned before, any archer worth his salt should never be in such a situation, whether he’s sniping long range or getting in close. The fact that you are complaining about this probably means you don’t have the situational awareness to back off when things go awry, not any inherent fault with the archer class.

    You wanna complain about LTS? Learn from the archers on both sides in this vid. Its tournament level play, so if he can do amazingly well, it throws out your argument completely.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kmhbZ4Uj8g



  • After playing as MAA almost exclusively since release, I swapped to archer a few days ago for a chance of pace and quickly grew to like it. I found the war bow to be my style, but that’s partly because I’m very comfortable in melee due to my MAA background. I actually often find it easier to duel the heavier classes an easily underestimated archer than as a MAA with any of their primary weapons.

    The warbow complements this style because, though I usually only get one shot off at a reasonable range before I have to swap for my secondary, one shot is usually enough to kill a wounded enemy, or soften someone up enough that one or two quick cherry taps will finish them off. Plus, the ability to one-shot archers when needed is fantastic, though I don’t like to spend much time counter-sniping and rarely bother to fire at archers who have spotted me.

    While supporting allies, which is primarily what I do, I like to take my time and aim carefully, waiting for a clear opening to and a shot in such a way that I know I won’t hit my ally. Even if I miss, hopefully it will give the enemy enough to think about that he might slip up or get desperate and careless.

    I’d like to try out the shortbow sometime, but I’m not yet accurate enough to repeatedly land shots with any frequency, so the rapid draw time is largely wasted on me. Plus, the short range and low damage makes firing at enemy archers feel pretty futile. That said, I have seen one or two shortbow archers who can really tear things up, and I was glad each time that they happened to be on my team. ^__^ I imagine that if you run into one in close quarters with your warbow out, you’ll never be able to get off a shot.

    I’m least interested in the longbow, even though I used it to unlock the warbow exclusively. It’s neither here nor there; still a slow draw, but not enough power to make it worthwhile; if I’m going to draw the bow that long, I’d rather have the range and power of the warbow.

    Perhaps it’s only because I just got into the warbow post-patch that I don’t mind the draw time, but I really do get by. Yes, I spend a lot of time meleeing, but when I am archering (what, it’s a verb… now…), it’s still the warbow that I want at hand.



  • The game has got to be balanced so that top-skill archers are balanced in top-skill matches.

    If medium skilled or poorly skilled archers are underpowered as a result, so be it.



  • @Conceived:

    TO will never be 3v3, and you can stand outside spawn all game if you want in LTS, where archers are especially powerful.

    I never said TO would be 3v3 I was just giving you an example. Whether its 3v3 or 8v8 its the same. In LTS there is no spawn so your teammates won’t be saving you from the knight who if uses feints will easily kill an archer once in range.

    @3ro1pt55:

    In TO to counter an archer as melee on defense you need to leave the objective you’re defending and run past the wave of oncoming attackers to kill the archer. To counter an archer on offense you need to rush past the heavily defended objective, and then the archer can just parry your attacks while his team surrounds and kills you.

    If teams are even in TO and you have enough teammates alive to combat the enemies at the objective and there is an archer sitting back then one knight can advance on him. If his teammates try to run back and protect the archer your teammates in turn will be smashing them in the back. I would hope you could communicate that on voice coms. Similar to a linebacker spying a quarterback in football. If a teammate gets a kill he can advance towards the archer as well and pick up the extra guy coming from the spawn. Best defense is a good offense.

    Any time an archer is being isolated and solod by a melee class it’s because of player error and bad positioning on the part of the archer.

    Against an evenly matched team you can be isolated easily. LTS should always come down to 1v1 in that sense. I gave an example of TO above… 5v5 leaves one knight free to attack the archer if teams are even…

    Put together a team and win tournaments doing this and I’ll agree with you. In practice, you just can’t ignore an archer’s team and rush him with your shield up. Someone already linked a video of the Dark Age Gaming tournament - go ahead and watch any of the matches in that tournament, they all pretty much revolve around warbow archers.



  • A broadhead arrow bodyshot with the warbow on a light armored class such as maa or archer is an instant kill.

    The warbow is fine.



  • @MrRedshark:

    A broadhead arrow bodyshot with the warbow on a light armored class such as maa or archer is an instant kill.

    The warbow is fine.

    Even an MAA? I’m pretty sure a torso shot won’t bring an MAA down in one hit with the broadhead. Archers for sure, though.



  • Even an MAA? I’m pretty sure a torso shot won’t bring an MAA down in one hit with the broadhead. Archers for sure, though.

    more than sure it won’t…. here are the stats… https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … TZnc#gid=1

    If archer is balanced with the other class’s I challenge you to win a 24 man ffa with one using the warbow… or any bow for that matter.



  • @Conceived:

    If archer is balanced with the other class’s I challenge you to win a 24 man ffa with one using the warbow… or any bow for that matter.

    Been then, done that. With a shortbow no less. FFA with more than 16 players is already a massive clusterfuck and the fact that you think topping the scoreboard in it is a valid way to judge whether a class is balanced or not shows that you’re kind of sort of probably shit at this game.


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