Why man at arms is underpowered.



  • Ok so lets do some theorycrafting here. The MAA (man at arms) is a short range fighter, so against anyone who is not a beginner, you cannot open a fight with an attack (because the enemy will outrange you and thus hit his attack first). The only option the MAA has, is to start the fight with a counter move (block counter attack / dodge counterattack). This is where we find the real problem…. you CANNOT counter attack against a good/decent player. Why? Well…

    The stagger effect the enemy gets from having its attack blocked simply isnt long enough compared to how fast the MAA can attack after blocking an attack. You block an attack, instantly counter attack, and the enemy will be abled to block it… It simply goes like that every single time against anyone who isnt a beginner… The only thing that the MAA can possibly do is get around the enemy’s block…, but… attack animations are so slow that any slightly skilled player can easily block aim every possible attack ingame (even if he has to turn a full 180 degrees).

    So here we have, the man at arms, a class that can only initiate a fight by doing a counter move, but it cant do a counter move…



  • No.

    You have a teleport that puts you away from any attack. If you know you are gonna get hit or if you jsut wanna be safe, just dash back and you’ll be safe 99% of the time. MAA has to get really close (and use a ton of stam) to be able to kill anyone. VGs can use spears and polearms to attack from a far distance while knights can get hit by weapons and shrug it off. MAA is only good for small encounters, just like how skirmishers are in real life.



  • @PornGuy:

    No.

    You have a teleport that puts you away from any attack. If you know you are gonna get hit or if you jsut wanna be safe, just dash back and you’ll be safe 99% of the time. MAA has to get really close (and use a ton of stam) to be able to kill anyone. VGs can use spears and polearms to attack from a far distance while knights can get hit by weapons and shrug it off. MAA is only good for small encounters, just like how skirmishers are in real life.

    Yes, the man at arms is better at not getting hit then other classes… But that should not justify the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a man at arms to hit a skilled player.



  • Don’t use the counterattack. Wait for your parry to recover and then start an attack.



  • @Filet:

    @PornGuy:

    No.

    You have a teleport that puts you away from any attack. If you know you are gonna get hit or if you jsut wanna be safe, just dash back and you’ll be safe 99% of the time. MAA has to get really close (and use a ton of stam) to be able to kill anyone. VGs can use spears and polearms to attack from a far distance while knights can get hit by weapons and shrug it off. MAA is only good for small encounters, just like how skirmishers are in real life.

    Yes, the man at arms is better at not getting hit then other classes… But that should not justify the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a man at arms to hit a skilled player.

    Kicking interrupts attacks. I always open a fight by forward dodge-attack, it’s a good way to approach an opponent faster than they would expect, and hopefully you will catch them off guard. Then I carefully watch my opponent if he is going to attack, if he attacks I block him and then kick, if he doesn’t attack I will kick anyway, then I tend to either do another dodge-attack if my opponent is playing defensive (taking advantage of dodges and kicks to avoid or interrupt his counter attacks), or I dodge backwards if my opponent is playing too aggressive and punish missed attacks with forward-dodge-attacks.

    I focus in doing forward dodge-attacks after they miss a hit so they don’t have time to block, I DON’T tend to counter attack (attacking after I block one of their attacks). And against spammers I just kick them to interrupt their attack and try to do an overhead vertical swing while jumping that can sometimes go over shields.



  • @ChizFreak:

    Kicking interrupts attacks. I always open a fight by forward dodge-attack, it’s a good way to approach an opponent faster than they would expect, and hopefully you will catch them off guard. Then I carefully watch my opponent if he is going to attack, if he attacks I block him and then kick, if he doesn’t attack I will kick anyway, then I tend to to another dodge-attack.

    I focus in doing forward dodge-attacks after they miss a hit so they don’t have time to block, I DON’T tend to counter attack (attacking after I block one of their attacks). And against spammers I just kick them to interrupt their attack and try to do an overhead vertical swing while jumping that can sometimes go over shields.

    You can kick after blocking an attack, but that doesnt get you any further. The attack immediatly after the kick can also be blocked.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Don’t use the counterattack. Wait for your parry to recover and then start an attack.

    This is not possible, the attack right after parrying is blockable. You probably have hit it many times because of the current low skillcap, but a non beginner should be abled to easily block it.



  • It’s impossible for any 2-handed weapon to hit a skilled MAA. MAA is the best class at one on one, but it also has the highest skill ceiling and the most difficult to master and truly unleash its potential.

    I have seen a lot of bad MAAs, and some of them I get to kill even with the uberslow Zweihander. The very good ones? I can’t even touch them without switching to secondary weapon and disadvantage myself.

    You also didn’t mention feint at all. Feinting with a fast weapon is disturbingly useful compared to feinting with a slow giant weapon.



  • @GhoXen:

    It’s impossible for any 2-handed weapon to hit a skilled MAA. MAA is the best class at one on one, but it also has the highest skill ceiling and the most difficult to master and truly unleash its potential.

    I have seen a lot of bad MAAs, and some of them I get to kill even with the uberslow Zweihander. The very good ones? I can’t even touch them without switching to secondary weapon and disadvantage myself.

    As said before… Yes, the man at arms is really good at not getting hit. But it is impossible for the man at arms to hit an enemy that is skilled. And with the current way the stamina works, the man at arms will always get tired faster than the enemy class. (not that this even matter because the enemy would still be abled to block 100% of all incoming MAA attacks even with low stamina)



  • @GhoXen:

    You also didn’t mention feint at all. Feinting with a fast weapon is disturbingly useful compared to feinting with a slow giant weapon.

    Feinting should not matter for this problem. Yes, it will allow to you outskill a few more beginners, but against a good player the exact same problem remains.



  • You can attack WHILE dodging.

    I often catch an enemy off guard by starting a stab or overhead, then jumping forward at him. The enemy thinks I am well out of range and will miss so doesn’t bother parrying or anything, I dive in and wham. Can also be useful to interrupt windups that they’ve started from a distance because they don’t think you’d be able to close in time.



  • @Filet:

    @GhoXen:

    You also didn’t mention feint at all. Feinting with a fast weapon is disturbingly useful compared to feinting with a slow giant weapon.

    Feinting should not matter for this problem. Yes, it will allow to you outskill a few more beginners, but against a good player the exact same problem remains.

    Not really. Even the most skilled players cannot successfully parry well-timed dodge+feint+stabs. Unless of course they are knights with shields. Finally, the game was never balanced around 1 on 1 in the first place. If it is balanced around 1 on 1, then a skilled archer should have a 50/50 chance of beating an equally skilled knight with tower shield in duels.



  • If my mouse was fully functional I’d challenge OP to a VG vs. MaA duel. Someone do it for me.



  • @BobT36:

    You can attack WHILE dodging.

    I often catch an enemy off guard by starting a stab or overhead, then jumping forward at him. The enemy thinks I am well out of range and will miss so doesn’t bother parrying or anything, I dive in and wham. Can also be useful to interrupt windups that they’ve started from a distance because they don’t think you’d be able to close in time.

    Same problem, the “leap forward attack” is easily blockable for a good opponent. The attack animation simply is too slow.



  • @Filet:

    Same problem, the “leap forward attack” is easily blockable for a good opponent. The attack animation simply is too slow.

    Lol, OP you realize your argument that “oh noes weapon easily blocked” applies for all classes right? Using your logic, Knights and vanguards have a harder time because their weapons are slower. MAAs have access to the fastest weapons so your argument doesn’t make sense.

    The forwards lunge is not easily blockable, especially when you do it straight after the enemy misses an attack.

    Plus, if counterattacks are successful all the time, MAA would be OP beyond words.

    All I can say is, get better at MAA. If you still insist, 1v1 me and i’ll show you how a real MAA plays.



  • @Wangmaster:

    @Filet:

    Same problem, the “leap forward attack” is easily blockable for a good opponent. The attack animation simply is too slow.

    Lol, OP you realize your argument that “oh noes weapon easily blocked” applies for all classes right? Using your logic, Knights and vanguards have a harder time because their weapons are slower. MAAs have access to the fastest weapons so your argument doesn’t make sense.

    The forwards lunge is not easily blockable, especially when you do it straight after the enemy misses an attack.

    Plus, if counterattacks are successful all the time, MAA would be OP beyond words.

    All I can say is, get better at MAA. If you still insist, 1v1 me and i’ll show you how a real MAA plays.

    I would love to duel you sometimes. (from a friendly perspective, to learn more about the class etc.)


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