New class: Monk/Cleric



  • A support unit for those poor players who like the game but aren’t the best at combat, or those just looking to switch things up a bit.

    Stats:
    No armor (should go down with 1 strike from Vanguard/Knight, 2 from Archers/MAA)
    Fast speed (Needs to run away from most enemies)
    Armed with a staff (Medium speed, low damage like a dagger)

    SPECIAL ABILITIES!
    This is the point of this unit. What it lacks in combat prowess, it makes up for in bonuses to the rest of the team.

    • Passive, always-on stamina level boost and health recovery rate increase within a 100-foot radius of the Cleric.
    • Active, single-player boost to speed, stamina, health recovery (even in combat). This would take up the throwable weapon slot (call it a holy water vial or something) and the Cleric would have to throw at it, and hit, the friendly player to make it work.

    Occasionally when you see 1 v 4 at the end of an elimination round, and you just about know that the single guy is pretty much boned, the cleric (who is still alive, but he’s so bad at combat it might as well be a 1 v 4) hits his friendly unit with his holy water vial to give the guy the boost that might just carry him to victory.

    Discuss.



  • @Mooseocalypse:

    Discuss.

    Just, no.



  • A fantasy themed mod would be ok, but for the vanilla game this just doesn’t fit. If someone held a gun to my head and said name a buff/etc. you’d put in the game I’d rather see something along the lines of extra damage if a teammate near you dies, of if you are the last person vs multiples you get increased damage due to rage.

    …but until someone holds a gun to my head, leave buffs out of this game.



  • @Dirtius:

    A fantasy themed mod would be ok, but for the vanilla game this just doesn’t fit.

    Well, what is religion if not fantasy? But anyway, hear me out on this one. Religion was massively important in the middle ages, a complete staple of everyday life. I’m fairly certain the crusades were launched with the tag line “go fight in the crusades and have all past and future sins absolved!” All battles were preceded by taking mass, all soldiers told god was on their side. Historical basis for the cleric is present.

    Also, history is awash in examples of inspiring leadership, people doing extraordinary feats at the urging of faith leaders (see: modern day middle east), and if you’ve ever worked under a great leader, you’ll be surprised at your own results because of it.

    Right now, Chivalry is a very one-dimensional game. Spawn, go kill, die, spawn. I’m not saying it’s a bad game, but it could be more. If people aren’t comfortable with the idea of a cleric, perhaps a unique class for 1 person each side as the company captain, providing combat bonuses from leadership. Anyway, food for thought.



  • @Mooseocalypse:

    Snip

    Stealing my design ideas from the other thread I see?

    Anyways what moose said is true. I would have a monk for agatha and a zealot for mason. They could have all sorts of silly/crazy chants to match the Chivalry atmosphere. As moose said religion was incredibly important in medieval times so this would fit in right at home.



  • @Dr.Nick:

    @Mooseocalypse:

    Snip

    Stealing my design ideas from the other thread I see?

    Really? Didn’t mean to, sorry. I buzzed down the thread titles before posting but I didn’t see anything like cleric, priest, etc. I guess it’s just a sensible idea that’s occurred to multiple people.



  • Here’s what I said said in the other thread.

    "One example off the top of my head would be to have a monk/zealot class that uses staffs for a weapon and can incite religious chants to greatly speed up players health regen healing them almost instantly out of combat and faster in combat. They would be very lightly armored, maybe between a vanguard and a maa. Their warcries could used as their healing chants even :D "



  • Magic healing water can be added in the same patch as dragons and elves ;)

    If we’re going to have a support class it should be the Siege Engineer.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Magic healing water can be added in the same patch as dragons and elves ;)

    If we’re going to have a support class it should be the Siege Engineer.

    Slygoat you seriously need to divorce fast healing from other fantasy elements. You see instant/magical healing in so many video games we don’t even think about it! Healthpacks, health orbs, magical health regeneration(cough chivalry cough), health syringes, and everything else you see in video games. Just think about all the titles you’ve played that have nonsensical health recovery and then think about just how few have anything close to realistic health portrayal!

    Seriously SlyGoat get your head from betwixt your legs and open your mind.

    All that being said a siege engineer is also a good suggestion and could be a good supporting class :)



  • The idea of a medic in a modern FPS game isn’t that far fetched - it represents a realistic concept (field medicine) even if the implementation isn’t realistic (healing someone from near death in a few seconds). The only games that have magical healing or health pack pickups are ones that aren’t meant to represent reality in any way, like TF2. There is no such way to implement it in Chivalry without being wholly immersion breaking - medieval understanding of medicine was limited to “You took a pretty bad cut to your arm, so we’re going to cut it off or you’ll get an infection and die”.

    Immersion aside, I just don’t think a healing class fits Chivalry. It’s not a peek out from behind cover and take shots at eachother, snipe from thousands of miles away, lob grenades that kill ten people at once game. Taking damage matters - it almost always means you made a mistake. Outplaying an opponent only to have a priest sprinkle him with holy water and heal the wound while you’re fighting would ruin that feeling. This is why the health regeneration exists, but is so limited - it makes it so that making one or two mistakes while killing someone doesn’t ensure you’ll die to the next guy you fight, but retains the feeling that taking damage is always bad.

    There are still ways to implement more strategic support tools in Chivalry without reverting to the very basic design of “healer class”.

    Siege Engineer - yes.

    More support oriented options for archers - yes.

    Some kind of hunter/trapper class - maybe.

    Healing - absolutely not.



  • My point is that almost all video games have illogical healing mechanics but they DON’T break immersion because it’s a trope we are all so used to and the same should apply in Chivalry.

    I can agree that healing DURING combat isn’t really the best idea but having a cleric/zealot that can heal units that are out of combat works perfectly and it would still be fine if they could give small buffs to other troops to show a moral or zeal boost.



  • Hello, I am a new member of this forum, Nice to meet you! :D



  • A class that is purely used to restore health out of combat is probably a class nobody would play. And “providing small buffs” is always either worthless or broken. Is the small buff significant enough that it makes halberd stabs kill knights in two hits instead of three? Broken. Is it too small to make any difference? Worthless. Same for defensive buffs.



  • You’re not looking at it from the correct viewpoint. A monk wouldn’t be a “healer” class, he’d be a combat buffs class. His godly exhortations inspire nearby troops, granting perhaps 10% bonuses to current stamina, health, and if possible, speed. It’s a psychological benefit completely inline with the times.



  • Stamina buff - useless, pretty much. Stamina is not that huge of a factor in combat that a small boost to it will make a noticeable difference.

    Health buff - overpowered, 10% boost will definitely turn some 1-2 hit kills into 2-3 hit kills. Rather than the small +10% it will effectively be a huge +50-100%.

    Speed buff - overpowered for offense on certain objectives not to mention CTF mode. A few men-at-arms and monks properly strafing and serpentining while sprinting will be able to outrun the enemy team with the flag/mass slaughter peasants/burn stuff/etc. while the enemy melee won’t be able to catch up unless they can perfectly track the other players’ movement to fully utilize the chase speed boost.

    And now taking into account all of that power you get just for standing near people - is it fun to do? Does it provide interesting gameplay choices to the person playing the class, or the person playing against it? In my opinion, no on both counts. It would just be a silly little walking buff that you’re forced to have on your team to counteract the buff the other side gets. Because a team of 7 players with the effective +1 hit to kill and +10% speed granted by a monk will stomp a team of 8 players without the buff assuming relatively equal skill. And if both teams have the buff… nothing changes except the game is slowed down a little due to players living longer, and two of the players in the game being forced to have less fun because they’re playing a noncombatant class that just stands behind their team buffing them.

    You have to look at suggestions like this from the standpoint of a designer. Think of all the consequences of such an addition and weigh them against what they add to the game. I don’t think any kind of buffing class adds anything interesting to Chivalry for all that it risks messing up.



  • Hate this idea.
    I would think a page would be more fitting, fast not armored carries short sword but main focus is resupplying archers and supplying lances for when a mounted knight breaks his wink wink nudge nudge.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Stamina buff - useless, pretty much. Stamina is not that huge of a factor in combat that a small boost to it will make a noticeable difference.

    Health buff - overpowered, 10% boost will definitely turn some 1-2 hit kills into 2-3 hit kills. Rather than the small +10% it will effectively be a huge +50-100%.

    Speed buff - overpowered for offense on certain objectives not to mention CTF mode. A few men-at-arms and monks properly strafing and serpentining while sprinting will be able to outrun the enemy team with the flag/mass slaughter peasants/burn stuff/etc. while the enemy melee won’t be able to catch up unless they can perfectly track the other players’ movement to fully utilize the chase speed boost.

    And now taking into account all of that power you get just for standing near people - is it fun to do? Does it provide interesting gameplay choices to the person playing the class, or the person playing against it? In my opinion, no on both counts. It would just be a silly little walking buff that you’re forced to have on your team to counteract the buff the other side gets. Because a team of 7 players with the effective +1 hit to kill and +10% speed granted by a monk will stomp a team of 8 players without the buff assuming relatively equal skill. And if both teams have the buff… nothing changes except the game is slowed down a little due to players living longer, and two of the players in the game being forced to have less fun because they’re playing a noncombatant class that just stands behind their team buffing them.

    You have to look at suggestions like this from the standpoint of a designer. Think of all the consequences of such an addition and weigh them against what they add to the game. I don’t think any kind of buffing class adds anything interesting to Chivalry for all that it risks messing up.

    Completely agree with this guy :D



  • I think it’s important to draw a distinction between Chivalry’s setting, and it’s core point. The setting is a medieval battlefield - the point is to beat people to death with medieval weapons. Steel and blood - that’s what this game is ultimately about, and I adore that simplicity.

    So, while I think having religious figures as support characters on the field would be in keeping with the setting, I think it only serves to divorce the game from the spirit of it all.



  • @Mooseocalypse:

    A support unit for those poor players who like the game but aren’t the best at combat, or those just looking to switch things up a bit.

    Stats:
    No armor (should go down with 1 strike from Vanguard/Knight, 2 from Archers/MAA)
    Fast speed (Needs to run away from most enemies)
    Armed with a staff (Medium speed, low damage like a dagger)

    SPECIAL ABILITIES!
    This is the point of this unit. What it lacks in combat prowess, it makes up for in bonuses to the rest of the team.

    • Passive, always-on stamina level boost and health recovery rate increase within a 100-foot radius of the Cleric.
    • Active, single-player boost to speed, stamina, health recovery (even in combat). This would take up the throwable weapon slot (call it a holy water vial or something) and the Cleric would have to throw at it, and hit, the friendly player to make it work.

    Occasionally when you see 1 v 4 at the end of an elimination round, and you just about know that the single guy is pretty much boned, the cleric (who is still alive, but he’s so bad at combat it might as well be a 1 v 4) hits his friendly unit with his holy water vial to give the guy the boost that might just carry him to victory.

    Discuss.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc



  • Wololo, wololo, wololo, wololo, wololo, wololo.

    Change the targeted player’s team using taunt. 8-)


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