SAUSAGESTAB's Combat System Suggestion



  • Summary

    Parry - Tap the block button, can be performed by both weapon and shield, recoils your opponent allowing you to begin a counteroffensive, successful parries are heavily rewarded. (Parrying will enable the “counterattack attack”)

    Block - Hold the block button, can be performed by both weapon and shield, it stops their attack, however they can follow up their combo until they’re finished with it. Players who block must either avoid their opponent’s Next attack or continue blocking until they have finished their combo to begin a counteroffensive. Blocks are basic moves which cost heavy amounts of Stamina in prolong combat. Also depending on the weapon type, you may also take damage depending on the size of your weapon versus your opponent’s weapon.

    Hilt Bash - When holding the block button when holding a weapon, its the weaker equivalent of the shield bash.

    Stamina - Will be increased if the block/combo system is implemented as the system will be based around Stamina. Stamina will play a larger role, disable actions or weakening actions depending on how much is available.

    Combo Breaker - C-C-C-C-Combo breaker, when you’re hit during an attack, you cannot start or continue a combo. This does not cancel your last attack, but you will not continue to combo.


    ^ Because Robots are cool (Thumbs up to anyone who can name the Personal Trooper (mech) and Pilot)! Theme song for suggestion -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEdQL0PTkDs (Open in new tab and read with it in the background)

    The mighty SAUSAGESTAB suggests that there should be a difference between a Block and Parry. I suggest that all weapons instead of being limited to the parry ability should be able to hold up their blocks like shields. Why I suggest this is because I feel that Feinting and Combo are systems which I do not feel like they fit in with the current fighting system. Its like a Boxing game and then you get the ability to Karate Chop your opponent. Yeah your still using your hands to fight, but doesn’t a karate chop in a boxing game feel a little… out of place?

    How I suggest this is implemented is that both Weapon and Shield can both hold up blocks, and both Shield and weapon can parry. By “TAPPING” the block button your character will perform a quick parry like we have now when you block with a weapon. This would effectively block your opponents attack and this will give you an opening for a counterattack straight away. (This allows Shield users to use the counterattack function as well)

    To balance this suggestion (Declarative finger), the mighty SAUSAGESTAB reckons that when hold up your weapon to block, if you do successfully block an opponent, he will not suffer recoil (He may recoil (animation) but the combo must continue), however you take no damage and your opponent can continue his combo and you must continue blocking until he has completed his combo. Until your opponent ends his combo you may begin a counteroffensive. What this does is that people who hold up blocks with shields/weapon will not be able to continuously hold up their block and counterattack without any negatives (like they do now).

    However with both shield and weapon you may tap your block button to parry. What the parry does, is what it does now, when you parry your opponent, your opponent will recoil and would be forced to go on the defensive. Parrying your opponent rather than Blocking will reduce Stamina cost of blocking by half. However Parrying is much more risky with your opponent’s ability to feint.


    ^More Robots since they’re so awesome. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpm4AxnFLbA <– more background music)

    There will be some things that should be changed in the current system for this suggestion to work. For one there should be Combo finishers (new animations), players must know when a combo has been completed, and currently the combo system is a bit strange, as that there are combos that can forever be linked which is quite… unintuitive. (looking at you Stab/ overhead/ Stab/ Overhead/ Stab and so on)

    I believe shields should have a defensive combat advantage over weaponry if this is implemented. If you parry heavy weapons you will also negate damage with lighter weapons against heavier weapons, however if you hold up a block instead of parrying, you will take appropriate amounts of damage for blocking significantly larger weapons (Daggers will take 1/6 damage from two handed swords/Polearms but 1/4 from Mauls. and Broadswords taking 1/5 damage from Mauls) This makes Parrying a much more rewarding system than holding up a block. However shields will negate all damage, and depending on the shield take less or more of a stamina beating instead.

    I would suggest that all attacks cost Stamina, but landing hits on your opponent decreases the cost of Stamina by at least half. I feel that the game doesn’t use the full extent of Stamina, I feel like its just a last minute addition to the game and does not serve much function except getting in the way of things.

    Increase Stamina regeneration, regeneration is halved while sprinting.

    Disable Attacking while Stamina is empty or too low to afford the attack. When Stamina hits a certain point, (25%) actions weaken. Disable staggering when blocking an attack with no stamina (its quite a stupid system), allow attacks to pierce for quarter damage. Having Higher stamina will reduce damage taken when hit with a larger weapon during a block. Currently there are weapons when they hit you, your character flies to the direction of the hit, if anyone noticed e.g. if someone stabs you with the halberd and you parry it, you will fly backwards a little. However having near full stamina will negate this feature. So having higher stamina will give you an advantage, however having lower stamina will put you at a disadvantage. Currently the Stamina just does whatever the pootis wants.

    During an attack if you’re hit, your Combo should end. Even if you’re hit outside the wind-up phase, your combo will cancel at the end of the last attack. Once that attack is finished you must start up another fresh attack to start a combo. If its your first attack, you will not be able to start a combo if you are hit during the first attack. <– Very important for those who understand the current combat system heavily.

    The recovery rate of a completion of a combo should be slightly longer, especially for smaller weapons, if you do not combo, your individual attacks will be slower.

    When holding up a block with a weapon like the shield, you may perform a Hilt Bash, similar to the Shield Bash however shorter range, faster, however the staggering is shorter and more of a recoil. (I suggest this is because I do like the system of shield bashing while holding up a block, as you can really push back face huggers but I will say that shield bashing should be faster and the stagger a little less… staggering. However I do not like kicks for non shield users, as the requirements to kick is to not perform any action allowing your opponent an opening, and even if you do successfully perform a kick, most good players would also stab you in the face as well as stagger backwards. So yeah you kicked them, but your dead too.)

    With a system like this I believe Feint will find its place here, and more in tuned with the combat system then before. I believe that the changes if this suggestion is implemented will create more dynamic decisions in melee combat. With this system I feel that players of all skill levels may take advantage over the new functions.


    ^ T-Link Sword! ! ! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brPfmHUuhuY)



  • Some great ideas in this post.



  • This idea remembers me the Dishonored’s defense system. Holding MOUSE2 would block incoming attacks without delay, but don’t give any advantages. But blocking at the good timing results on a parry and forcing the opponent to down his guard.



  • Great read, good suggestions, would love to try this out.



  • Thanks for the replies, and I’ve never played Dishonored.

    I find it kind of strange that this suggestion didn’t get much replies. I mean I understand if it were “tl:dr” but I mean I had it summarized on the bottom, as well as had Super Robots and Background music for those who would read through the whole thing.

    However maybe I’m writing this reply is because I feel a little under appreciated, you’d think a suggestion like this would attract more talk then the suggestions about ‘Bards’, ‘Mages’, ‘Clerics’, ‘Female Player Characters’, ‘Unarmored Bandage tossing class’ and ‘Doomsayers’ (Implement my suggestion or else you will die!! (Zelda CD-I ref)) etc. I just wonder why everyone is so quiet about this suggestion and there is this big uproar on the aforementioned Clerics, Doomsayers etc which they only wrote like 2 paragraphs so technically there shouldn’t even be much to talk about. Plus with more replies I maybe able to express further or repair issues with the suggestion.



  • i’d have to say i wouldn’t like your core suggestion much it since it would make combat much less based on splitsecond decisisions. judging in the middle of a fight if that second combo swing comes in or is feinted is hard for sure (and certainly ping-dependent), but it’s soooo very rewarding if you do it well.
    being able to block perpetually would basically give you the advantages of the current shield without the visibility impairment. to make the shield stand out it would have to be made even stronger.
    and then it’s welcome to Blockery: Turtle Warfare.



  • Hmm you may be right however I’ve suggested that holding up blocks are significantly weaker than the parrying counterparts. First of, your opponent can continue comboing, therefore leaving you no chance of a counterattack until they have finished their combo (which I’ve already described removing continous combos). Parrying will be heavily rewarded with less stamina cost, no damage (if blocking significantly larger weapon) and it recoils the opponent allowing for a counteroffensive.

    What I have is that Shields will gain the ability to negate the damage if the block is held up. Shields are also capable of the parrying manuever.

    I should’ve added that missing a parry should cost some stamina. However holding blocks do not, in any case holding up blocks against a flurry of attacks will cost much more stamina in the long run.

    I also feel that all shield bash, kick, hilt bash manuevers should be much faster and the staggering should be shortened, however the distance created should be the same. By creating distance, players can choose to disengage, re-engage, counterattack etc. Right now it feels very rigid and clunky and doesn’t really do anything significant except stunning both players. (meaning I would prefer the kicks/shieldbash to be more fluid)

    Anyways the current system feels very rigid, and the feint system doesn’t do it much honour. In a shieldless fight no matter how skilled the player (unless a super computer), if another player feints against them, theres little chance of them blocking because it happens so fast and the latency even only 60ms will create a block gap large enough for the feint to break through the skilled player’s defenses.

    What I mean is that the combat right now amongst two good players is less about splitsecond decisions and more on predicted decisions. Whoever predicts the correct moves wins the fight, when a player attacks the wind-up phase starts, the second player has a choice knowing full well the consequence if that attack is a feint and if it weren’t a feint. If he chooses to hold back his block believing it will be a feint, he will succeed in countering the feint. However if the opposing player does not feint, he will take a hit, as he has held back his block for too long, and trying to block it in the last possible split second usually doesn’t work (Latency).

    Speaking of predicted decisions, have you ever seen two Vanguards or Knights, facing off each other, neither attacking and both parrying each other, despite being in the faces of each other? This happens for players of all skills, as that both parties aren’t really doing splitsecond decisions but rather trying to predict the other’s moves. (This is quite prevalent in AoC, 2 Crusaders facing off and both of them straffing around each other spamming parry but no attacks were thrown). There are times where I simply walk forward into my opponents (even the good ones occasionally fall for this) and they randomly parrys and I haven’t even started an attack, but then again I usually use this to throw off their parry timing and get a free hit in (Don’t even need to feint to achieve the same result).



  • I fully endorse this suggestion.



  • @SAUSAGESTAB:

    Thanks for the replies, and I’ve never played Dishonored.

    I find it kind of strange that this suggestion didn’t get much replies. I mean I understand if it were “tl:dr” but I mean I had it summarized on the bottom, as well as had Super Robots and Background music for those who would read through the whole thing.

    However maybe I’m writing this reply is because I feel a little under appreciated, you’d think a suggestion like this would attract more talk then the suggestions about ‘Bards’, ‘Mages’, ‘Clerics’, ‘Female Player Characters’, ‘Unarmored Bandage tossing class’ and ‘Doomsayers’ (Implement my suggestion or else you will die!! (Zelda CD-I ref)) etc. I just wonder why everyone is so quiet about this suggestion and there is this big uproar on the aforementioned Clerics, Doomsayers etc which they only wrote like 2 paragraphs so technically there shouldn’t even be much to talk about. Plus with more replies I maybe able to express further or repair issues with the suggestion.

    Other threads get more replies because they are brief and concise. The first thing you included in your post was a giant picture of an anime robot, followed by a wall of text, followed by more robots. Every time I started reading a sentence, I gave up halfway because it trailed off and never got to a point.

    To answer your question, the reason you didn’t get many replies was because of both tl:dr and Super Robots.



  • Hmm, I think the Super Robots were carrying the Topic. Regardless, due to the nature of the suggestion, you have to be heavily descriptive to negate the effects of poor balance and gameplay changes.

    Hmm, if people actually only reads suggestion that are “short and concise and super robot-less” then I could probably do one about Demon Knights (All dressed like the guy from Overlord) invading the lands of Agatha and then King Argon’s spirit grew restless with the piss, so he raises himself from the dead to take on the new threat (He also unites the Kingdom… again (even though zombified)) and sadly it may actually gain more attention then a thought out descriptive suggestion.

    and as some guy I don’t know once posted…
    @Oldschooler:

    Sometimes it is not possible to type short posts .



  • @SAUSAGESTAB:

    Hmm, I think the Super Robots were carrying the Topic. Regardless, due to the nature of the suggestion, you have to be heavily descriptive to negate the effects of poor balance and gameplay changes.

    Hmm, if people actually only reads suggestion that are “short and concise and super robot-less” then I could probably do one about Demon Knights (All dressed like the guy from Overlord) invading the lands of Agatha and then King Argon’s spirit grew restless with the piss, so he raises himself from the dead to take on the new threat (He also unites the Kingdom… again (even though zombified)) and sadly it may actually gain more attention then a thought out descriptive suggestion.

    and as some guy I don’t know once posted…
    @Oldschooler:

    Sometimes it is not possible to type short posts .

    It would get more feedback because it would be short, to the point and free of robots. It doesn’t mean the feedback would be positive.

    You are right that thorough description is needed, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be to brief.
    Try writing the suggestion in no more than two lines, summarised and to the point, at the beginning of the post. Then draw a divider and underneath explain as clearly as you can how the system would work in detail.



  • I guess my theatrics got the better of me (whenever I write I enjoy being a little creative), I am quite happy with the positive feedback from the other posters. However I still feel kind of disappointed that a lot of other people didn’t respond to my suggestion.



  • @carrion:

    i’d have to say i wouldn’t like your core suggestion much it since it would make combat much less based on splitsecond decisisions. judging in the middle of a fight if that second combo swing comes in or is feinted is hard for sure (and certainly ping-dependent), but it’s soooo very rewarding if you do it well.
    being able to block perpetually would basically give you the advantages of the current shield without the visibility impairment. to make the shield stand out it would have to be made even stronger.
    and then it’s welcome to Blockery: Turtle Warfare.

    If your opponent is close enough, and especially if their weapon is fast, it’s not possible to react to a feint. You can definitely guess correctly, but unlike parrying an attack, it’s not reaction. You just make a choice before it’s even possible to process any visual information you see. This is why feinting is truly terrible, and ruins a lot of fun in high level play.

    Instead of an extreme, chaotic mash and mesh of flying sparks and blades of steel, you get two people dancing around each other, waiting for someone to make a move and roll the dice. Boring.



  • So if you hold up a weapon in advance of an attack (in real life) it will achieve nothing, the best you can hope to do is deflect the attack. This is not the same as a parry. For a parry to be effective it has to be timed and there must be force behind it. Even deflecting requires force.
    However, maybe ‘deflecting’ could be added to the game as a lesser form of parry? If you ‘deflect’ it doesn’t cause the attacker to recoil and does NOT interrupt ‘combo’s’, but a successful parry WILL causes recoil and interrupts ‘combo’s’.
    The idea of being able to ‘block’ with a shield and weapon is great - it would make feints less effective against those carrying shields which is as it should be.
    The brilliance of this game is that it requires players to continually direct their actions and change tactics ‘on the fly’. This is NOT the case with games like WoW where people mash keys 1,2,3. and the target has nil ability to prevent death.
    IMHO TB have done an excellent job in steering the game away from action and consequence, almost turn-based style game play, such as WoW, eg
    game:“you have been dazed/confused for 10seconds, feel free to stand around and do nothing for a while or use your trinket to magically become better again”
    Or
    game:“OOOhhhh sorry your target has disappeared into a lag hole and your interactions with the game have achieved zero, but while you were flapping about you’ve been stunned for 10seconds - go!”



  • @UnknownXV:

    If your opponent is close enough, and especially if their weapon is fast, it’s not possible to react to a feint. You can definitely guess correctly, but unlike parrying an attack, it’s not reaction. You just make a choice before it’s even possible to process any visual information you see. This is why feinting is truly terrible, and ruins a lot of fun in high level play.

    I don’t think feint is terrible. You can’t visually process that situation but you do have the choice of distancing yourself. You can step back out of range, or if he’s busily rubbing his face into your chest plate while you back peddling then kick him in the jimmy. If hes upon you and you haven’t done option a) or b) then you die. Fair is fair.



  • @BenjiX:

    This idea remembers me the Dishonored’s defense system. Holding MOUSE2 would block incoming attacks without delay, but don’t give any advantages. But blocking at the good timing results on a parry and forcing the opponent to down his guard.

    Exactly what I was thinking. Chivalry NEEDS to have that exact system, it is brilliant.



  • I don’t know about the rest of you but I like Super robots. (where is everyone’s sense of humor?)



  • @giantyak:

    @UnknownXV:

    If your opponent is close enough, and especially if their weapon is fast, it’s not possible to react to a feint. You can definitely guess correctly, but unlike parrying an attack, it’s not reaction. You just make a choice before it’s even possible to process any visual information you see. This is why feinting is truly terrible, and ruins a lot of fun in high level play.

    I don’t think feint is terrible. You can’t visually process that situation but you do have the choice of distancing yourself. You can step back out of range, or if he’s busily rubbing his face into your chest plate while you back peddling then kick him in the jimmy. If hes upon you and you haven’t done option a) or b) then you die. Fair is fair.

    Backing up is slower than walking forward, and a good player will sprint forward, not walk. Turning around to sprint yourself often leaves you vulnerable. Besides, this is just stalling. Eventually the opening move will come in, either you attack first, and because I don’t feint my first attack is usually parried… the ball is in his court. I have to guess, because at this point he’s close enough that I can’t turn around, if he is going for a real attack or a feint.

    Playing against good players, feinting is just completely ridiculous. No single mechanic, with so little a penalty for using it constantly, should be so powerful. It’s one damn button, that grants this much strength. No. It’s not balanced and even more importantly, it’s not fun.

    By far and large, the most intense and enjoyable fights I’ve had were against good players who didn’t use feints at all. It’s a flurry of blows back and forth, a constant test of footwork, reaction times, trying to outmaneuver around your opponents parries… but never guessing. It’s speed. No dice involved.



  • In 1 v 1 you have as much time as you want, bar the fact that you might run out of stamina first if the fight goes too long.
    The cost of feint is that it takes time (even though only a tiny amount) and in scenarios where its not 1 v 1 this can mean you die.



  • I stopped reading once I saw the robot


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