Second tier weapons are inferior



  • So after 25 kills you unlock the next weapon.

    I am sure this has been brought up before but it seems like the second tier weapon has inferior stats.

    Take the archers bow for example.

    Longbow 1st tier
    Damage: 50% Rate: 50% Range: 50%

    Shortbow 2nd tier unlocked after 25 kills
    Damage: 31% Rate: 55% Range: 50%

    Gees ! 5% faster for 19% less damage. Not worth it and in using it I can tell the difference and so I end up playing with the longbow until I got the warbow (which rocks).

    The same issue is for my secondary weapon.
    Broad dagger 1st tier
    Damage: 21% Speed: 96% Reach: 14%

    Hunting knife 2nd tier
    Damage: 21% Speed: 95% Reach: 11%

    I have heard other players complain about this too. We need to feel like we are progressing and that second weapon should be more useful than the first.



  • Percentage on the weapon infomation is wrong.



  • All the daggers are essentially useless. I prefer the shortbow over the longbow, personally, but they’re both worse than the warbow.

    No weapon is meant to be superior to another, anyway. They’re all supposed to be situationally strong.



  • Sword of war and pole axe say hi.



  • @SOC:

    Sword of war and pole axe say hi.

    Pitchfork says your argument is invalid. Just kidding ;)



  • Hatchet beats war axe for Vanguards.



  • @Falc:

    Pitchfork says your argument is invalid. Just kidding ;)

    I feel like a peasant everytime I use the fork, and I feel like i’m fighting a peasant when my opponent uses it. :P



  • In a perfectly balanced game, the second/third tier weapons should be neither inferior or superior. It might take some time to balance everything though, games are still balanced years after release even. We’ll get close one day though.

    You should completely ignore every in game stat it says though. There’s actual stats in a link in my signature.



  • @Martin:

    You should completely ignore every in game stat it says though. There’s actual stats in a link in my signature.

    And why is that? Pretty pointless to have any stats shown ingame unless they are the real stats… Misleading stats is maybe even tad worse than having none at all!



  • @catmorbid:

    @Martin:

    You should completely ignore every in game stat it says though. There’s actual stats in a link in my signature.

    And why is that? Pretty pointless to have any stats shown ingame unless they are the real stats… Misleading stats is maybe even tad worse than having none at all!

    I imagine most players would be slightly afraid to see this:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … TZnc#gid=1

    when choosing their weapon?



  • If you’ve tried the Hunting Knife, you’d find how disturbingly powerful it is even with just LMB swings.



  • One word: Maul.



  • It took me my first 3 or 4 games to realise that the shortsword was the uber melee weapon if you get in the first strike…stab first, stab hard, stab fast…then run away to avoid the probable attack from your blind spot.

    I question the concept of ‘situationally strong’ in this game…seriously, what other situation is there apart from ‘mob melee’ and ‘long range sniping’? I’ll buy that on duel servers or such there may be instances where specific weapons may have specific advantages, but for joe average-player it’s bash and slash and laugh like hell.

    Suggestion, though:

    1. Somewhere in the tutorial, please explain the unlock process, and mention that weapons are situationally whatever, rather than being no marked improvement, saves a lot of effort.



  • @BOT:

    @catmorbid:

    @Martin:

    You should completely ignore every in game stat it says though. There’s actual stats in a link in my signature.

    And why is that? Pretty pointless to have any stats shown ingame unless they are the real stats… Misleading stats is maybe even tad worse than having none at all!

    I imagine most players would be slightly afraid to see this:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … TZnc#gid=1

    when choosing their weapon?

    It doesn’t need to be that in depth.

    This game should just have the BARE MINIMUM of data for the players, like so:

    Weapon name
    SWING: Damage type, base damage value, time in seconds it takes for the entire swing
    THRUST: Damage type, base damage value, time in seconds
    OVERHEAD: Damage type, base damage value, time in seconds

    It doesn’t need to list damage to specific classes or against particular body parts. Right now the only way to tell what damage type it does is to guess by looking at the weapon, and even THAT is usually misleading. First glance would tell you the war axe does piercing damage on a stab, but NOPE! It’s blunt, to spite the giant spike.

    It’s as if the developers don’t want you to know how anything works.



  • I may be wrong, but I thought that the new unlocks were not supposed to be better but more customized to fit playstyles?



  • In my opinion each weapon satisfies its own niche play style, and sure there still needs to be some balancing but I don’t think the second tier weapons are inferior in any way. Except the fork the fork sucks a lot.



  • @Ushnor:

    It doesn’t need to be that in depth.

    This game should just have the BARE MINIMUM of data for the players, like so:

    Weapon name
    SWING: Damage type, base damage value, time in seconds it takes for the entire swing
    THRUST: Damage type, base damage value, time in seconds
    OVERHEAD: Damage type, base damage value, time in seconds

    It doesn’t need to list damage to specific classes or against particular body parts. Right now the only way to tell what damage type it does is to guess by looking at the weapon, and even THAT is usually misleading. First glance would tell you the war axe does piercing damage on a stab, but NOPE! It’s blunt, to spite the giant spike.

    It’s as if the developers don’t want you to know how anything works.

    Cut them some slack: it’s an indie game and they’re scattered all over the country. I’m sure, over time, the weapon information will be a lot more polished in game. For now, just stick with Martin’s chart. No biggie.



  • The thing about the stat percentages is that they’re useful for relative comparisons at a glance. Sure, the Dane Axe might not have exactly 2% less damage than the War Axe. That’s not the point. It tells you the Dane Axe does slightly less damage for slightly more reach.

    Are some of the percentages flat out incorrect? Maybe, I’m not sure. But I’m pretty sure they give you a good idea.



  • light crossbows aggrees

    In the end, you have to try them all out anyway. You can’t possibly say what a weapon is supposed to archieve in each gamemode at one glance. A general ‘direction’ like the classes have (like slow / strong / long reach or fast / strong / small reach) does suffice.



  • @Martin:

    In a perfectly balanced game, the second/third tier weapons should be neither inferior or superior. It might take some time to balance everything though, games are still balanced years after release even. We’ll get close one day though.

    You should completely ignore every in game stat it says though. There’s actual stats in a link in my signature.

    It would be nice if there where a color difference between 4 and 5 hits as the difference between those is still a factor on some weapons, between 5 and 6 it will become a lot rarer.


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