Extremely frustrating



  • Hi,

    First I would like to say that I support indie games, devs and studios, and love nothing more than to see people ‘make it’ and ‘break’ into the industry and become successful. I also wish that you sell so many copies that you can work on this game full time, knowing you have a community behind you and pursue your life goals and dreams.

    Feel free to delete this post if you think it’s rude or pointless. I will try my best to give feedback and constructive criticism. But conveying emotions over the internet is almost impossible, and people always get butt hurt and think you’re attacking them…

    Now, I have played this game for a few days. I’ve been a gamer since pong, and would consider myself a ‘hardcore gamer’ but I also play games like TF2 and know how to have fun, which is the main point of playing video games. However, like many PC gamers out there, I’m a very competitive person, and love to become really good at games and win. Sometimes winning does become the main goal, and having fun takes a back seat, which I don’t think is that bad. But I could be wrong, even though winning equals fun.

    Let me say the good things first. LOVE the style and the artwork. Also a thumbs up on the animation, and I almost forgot, the audio/voice acting is really funny and amazing. I think lod distances are too short, switches too early, but overall it’s really great +1 for textures. Same with maps, they are great, but due to the fact that players move so slow, the maps seems too big at times for the number of players (I know it can be adjusted, but still)

    The biggest complaint I have is that it almost feels like this is not a game of skill. The speed for everything is what bugs me the most. At times, it almost feels like I’m playing the game in slowmotion since swings and landing t…a…k…e…s…u…c…h… a long time. I give the responsiveness a 1 out of 10. From the time you start your swing until it reaches a player and makes contact (insert it’s too damn high meme here) If that’s the point, then I guess I’m totally missing it. The classes almost don’t matter, it’s about who can get a lucky swing in first. A weapon with a long reach will not have greater odds against one with a very short reach. Or at least it’s been my experience. While running, you can not jump. I have never played a game where this is the case. Also when you are running, and fall on a difference surface/lower platform, you stop running… Again, I hate how slow everything is. Usually the players on top are the ones who have figured out some class/weapon combo that beats everyone elses luck and speed. I have hit opponents numerous times and blocked all their shots, only to be killed by a weaker class w/one swing, while have a technically ‘stronger’ weapon/class. And the other way around, I have stabbed people multiple times, and have beaten them at speed, only to die from 1 swing since now they’re the heavier class.

    LOVE the crossbow reload (Needs to be faster), however I’m sure you guys know that the archery could use some work. I blame it on the weird camera perspective. #FOV exaggerated/forced perspective’s at fault? (more visible while in 1st person, and the top of the sword seems like it’s really far from you, everything is much smaller vs. most games) Not sure if it’s an engine limitation/setting or an art style.

    Scoring/UI Hate it, sorry. especially how the scores are hidden in the corner as 1/7 instead of shown prominently in the very top (Replacing the team scores) Again, can’t jump while running, and things seems slow, not sure if I mentioned it already or not. The reach

    All the servers I have ever joined were “full”, or shown/displayed as full, but weren’t and I could join.
    -when spectating after death, you can not toggle between different players
    -when spectating, it seems really laggy/jumpy, not sure why

    Not sure if the game was tested at higher/faster speeds and proven to be no fun. But if it hasn’t, I would love to see a test release where things are much faster, just to see how it effects the overall gameplay/experience.

    Making things faster would also actually harm one aspect which is, most people just dying from being double/tripple teamed and getting stabbled/slashed form behind. It seems like a third of the people on the map, are chasing the 2nd third, who are chasing the 3rd third. While fun, and funny, this is also a great source of frustration.

    Hopefully with enough tweaks, and additional weapons/classes, this game will be as fun and as popular as TF2

    Good luck, and if I’m wrong, I guess this genre is just not for me.



  • @windex:

    Hi,
    The biggest complaint I have is that it almost feels like this is not a game of skill. The speed for everything is what bugs me the most. At times, it almost feels like I’m playing the game in slowmotion since swings and landing t…a…k…e…s…u…c…h… a long time. I give the responsiveness a 1 out of 10. From the time you start your swing until it reaches a player and makes contact (insert it’s too damn high meme here) If that’s the point, then I guess I’m totally missing it. The classes almost don’t matter, it’s about who can get a lucky swing in first.

    I do not agree on that part.
    Duels can be very fast paced, dependent on the fighting style of the fighters.
    Saying that a duel depends on the ‘‘first lucky swing’’ is nonsense, this may be the case when both players are spamming the LMB, but certainly not when playing smart.

    Your criticism is good, but I’d suggest to give the game some more time, and maybe play on a few duel servers (1v1).
    These duel servers are most of the time full with skilled players from who you can learn a lot.



  • This game has a hillariously low skill cap when it comes to individual 1v1 play in scrims.

    Most above average players will hit the cap within a month of playing. This is due to how the combat is currently designed.



  • Chivalry’s combat is meant to be reactionary rather than prediction based. It isn’t a fighter - most fighters are almost entirely mechanical knowledge and prediction. Time to kill is higher than an FPS, but hits to kill is generally much lower - this is because rather than two players spotting eachother and the one with the faster twitch reflex shooting first and winning, you generally both see eachother from a distance and are ready to engage by the time you’re in range; and of course you can counteract any of the actions your opponent makes.

    Maybe the pace of the game could be increased somewhat, but there are already actions within Chivalry with a reaction window narrower than human reaction time, especially when you add in latency. If the game was as fast as a fighter it would no longer be a reactionary game. This is what sets Chivalry apart and makes its combat more engaging. It sounds to me like you are just charging towards enemies and trying to hit them before they hit you - I.E. playing like the game is a twitch shooter. It isn’t. Making the first move is important, but that move does not always necessarily have to be an outright offensive one.

    Slightly off topic:

    It’s amusing to me that a lot of the players who think the game is too slow are the same ones who hate how feints work, because feints are exactly the kind of mechanic that shifts the game from reactionary into predictive, just like increasing the game’s pace would. I think Torn Banner is headed in the right direction by adding a choice of swing direction. That’s an addition that increases the depth by adding more mixups to your attack options, but still allows you to react to everything the same as you do now.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Chivalry’s combat is meant to be reactionary rather than prediction based. It isn’t a fighter - most fighters are almost entirely mechanical knowledge and prediction.

    Incorrect. In fighters you react to what you’re seeing on screen. The difference is the speed in which you do it is faster than in Chivalry because your moves aren’t heavily telegraphed in fighters.

    A very simple example is in the matchup Boxer vs Ryu. If Boxer has super meter he can wait for Ryu to throw out a fireball which is a mistake and input his super which is a guranteed hit. (This is not prediction, since you are reacting to a small time window to input your super to hit it) Though techniques like charge buffering make this a little easier.

    It’s amusing when people who played fighters at an elementary level play a game for a small amount of time and then assume the game is JUST about mechanical knowledge and prediction. A lot of strategy can take place on an organic level.

    No offense but what you just typed here shows you don’t understand the genre very well and it’s best for you to not make comparisons.

    It’s amusing to me that a lot of the players who think the game is too slow are the same ones who hate how feints work, because feints are exactly the kind of mechanic that shifts the game from reactionary into predictive, just like increasing the game’s pace would

    Increasing the pace would not make this game predictive at all. There would still be recognizable windups for every attack. The problem is not that feints make Chivalry into a predictive game, it’s that the mechanic is utterly broken 90% of the time when both players are in an extreme proximity to eachother.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg1bigtrNio - M&B high level duel

    Contrast it to M&B Feints where the actual feint is a player switching between attack stances extremely fast. You don’t have to predict because you can hold down your parry/block. Chivalry is a different story because parries are completely timing based. Which is why the feints work in the first place. It forces a player to incorrectly time his parry. The problem is if you’re in facehug range because parry is tied to windup you have no idea when and how to block if the player is any good at feinting. This is not conducive to skilled gameplay.

    In fighting games the prediction is in context based on which matchup you’re playing in. Also you can hold down your block as it’s not timing based.



  • @musashi: I played m&b(and crpg) for a long time and while I liked the combat system, at levels as high as the video you posted the combat started to get stupid/boring imho. I could never see how it was fun do the same all the time, as high level fights were nonstop feintspamming for more than a minute (your video had 8 deaths in 10 min). Fights should not last that long imho, otherwise they get tedious. I prefer the diversity of CMW’s combat(which still has enough issues, but I’m quite sure Torn Banner will manage to fix these).

    I have to agree with the OP in one point: Attacks look too slow. I’m not talking about wind up here, only release. Especially the Zwei. With its 0.65 swing release, the blade is moving so slow it is ridiculous. It looks like slow motion to me.



  • M&B is a perfect example of a reactionary combat system lacking enough mixups for the time to kill to be reasonable in a high level fight.

    I strongly disagree with you about fighters MUSASHI. There are obviously some things you can react to, just as in Chivalry there are some things you cannot react to - and some fighters are much more reactionary than others - but overall they’re mostly games of prediction and mechanics because execution time for the majority of moves < human reaction time. I think maybe you misunderstood what I meant by prediction vs. reaction - you react to the moves your opponent has executed, but you can’t see the next one coming, and thus cannot react to it. You can only react to the previous move and predict the next one to dictate your action. And yeah, you can hold blocks, but most fighters have high and low blocks, and almost every fighter has grapples that bypass blocks - not to mention offensive blocks as in the form of guard impacts in Soul Calibur. All of these are based on prediction and aren’t directly broadcasted other than what you read off of your opponent. These are the kinds of mixups I’m talking about that Chivalry could use more of, but represented in a way you can still react to them directly - such as choosing swing direction.



  • Lets begin!

    “would consider myself a ‘hardcore gamer’ but I also play games like TF2”
    Implying Tf2 is NOT a serious game, when with “serious” we talk about hard, skill demanding etcetc. I’m sorry to burst you bubble but the amount of championships (most known, ETF2L and UGC) and the ridiculous amount of skill needed for the Premier Division (higher championship tier) players, completely wrecks your opinion about a “hardcore” game.

    So WHAT swings soooo sloooooowww? A Maul? Or a damn Dagger? Because if the Maul moved faster it’d be clearly OP. If the dagger moved faster it would be unblockable and no attack would get through the windup animation.

    I agree that sprinting has a few issues. Pressing 2 does nothing while sprinting too.

    Weapons that kill you in one hit are:
    A: Of a stronger class.
    B: 1-Hit kills on Headshot. (Melee Weapons can deal Headshot damage too)
    C: Of the damage type that deals more damage to you class.
    D: Slow.
    E: A combination of the above.

    Yes, archery needs some help. Yes, crossbows need a buff or two.

    What is smaller? Everything? How about lowering your FOV? Though you’ll see less that way.

    I’ll ignore your Scoreboard issues, 'cause that’s total bollocks.

    I wholeheartedly agree about the Server Browser and Spectator issues.

    Want to test a faster “Chivalry”? You can decrease game speed, I guess you can increase it too.
    (This is a server option. You might be able to change it when playing with bots, though I don’t know. Get an admin to try it out, or buy yourself a server.)

    The whole chasing part is something that SOMEtimes happens, in SOMEservers and you can IGNORE it. If you get gangbanged, ask for Teamwork nerfs, not changes to a game. (Or play with friends.)

    Finally, this game (35 hours in and a few in Beta) is as much fun as Tf2 (1260 hours in) used to be at its personal peak, more weapons are coming, more classes could be game breaking and some tweaks are indeed required.



  • You can change the server speed against bots as well. aoc_slomo X where X is a number between .01 and 2 (1% speed to 200% speed).


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