View from inside helmet



  • I searched on the forums for quite a while but did not find anything in relation to this, so figured I will make a new thread.

    Something I would love to see as a server option or individual player option (perhaps for some sort of hardcore mode), is a “helmet” view, so that the player’s view is partially obstructed by the silhouette of his helmet to create even more combat immersion.
    This would make combat more difficult, and as a result players may be more cautious when fighting, making for more intense combat situations.

    I understand there would be players who would HATE this idea, and others who would thrive on the game being even harder again, and that is why I suggest it to be a server or individual player option, not a forced feature.

    Obviously there are different classes with different helmets, and some with NO helmets, so there would be different views for everyone. Some might argue that being a knight would be much harder to play as against a lighter class who may just have a chainmail hood, or someone without a helmet, but someone without a helmet who gets hit in the head would most likely die in one hit, where as the one wearing a helmet would last longer.
    If players wanted, they could choose to not wear a helmet to free up their vision.

    So post your thoughts and suggestions, if you like the idea, great, if not, ahwell, as I said, it’s not for everybody.



  • I suppose if it was an optional thing then sure, that’s the kind of “little extra something” that really makes games stand out.



  • I am for it, totally.
    BUT
    monitor itself has sometimes smaller fov than that out of helmet…well, at least than kettlehat or opened one ;)



  • Yeah, that is the only issue with a helmet view.
    However it can still be done, I have experimented with it with my own project before, and it works well.
    You can also see the effect in mods for games like STALKER, where if a player puts on a gas mask, his vision is obstructed, and sounds muffled.

    To further extend the difficulty of this idea. If a player were to get hit in the head but not killed, the helmet would shift and become offset in the players view, and the player would need to adjust his view back by shaking his mouse or hitting a key. Obviously by that time the player might already be dead, but you never know, it could be neck and neck, a player gets hit in the head, his helmet gets twisted a bit on his noggin, he shakes his helmet back to it’s normal position again just in time to counter attack an overhand strike with a stab to the gut.

    Something so small can really make the game stand out, as King said ;)



  • When larger helmets block the vision a bit more than smaller ones, this could cause a benefit for light classes.



  • @King:

    I suppose if it was an optional thing then sure, that’s the kind of “little extra something” that really makes games stand out.

    Instead of being optional for each player, I would rather it be a serverside choice so only “hardcore” servers allow it. If it was optional for each player, it would give an unfair advantage to those who disable it.



  • Hmm…
    What if, when you wear a knight’s full armor and helmet, after some swings and runs, you start to sweat, fogging your vision a little?
    Maybe that’s too realistic, i reckon…



  • @PowerZ:

    When larger helmets block the vision a bit more than smaller ones, this could cause a benefit for light classes.

    Yes, it would, if players could choose to wear a helmet or not, that would further balance things out.
    If you are clonked on the nogging by any weapon without a helmet though, chances are you’re dead.
    It’s a bit of a trade off of protection vs visibility.

    @Dr.Waffles:

    @King:

    I suppose if it was an optional thing then sure, that’s the kind of “little extra something” that really makes games stand out.

    Instead of being optional for each player, I would rather it be a serverside choice so only “hardcore” servers allow it. If it was optional for each player, it would give an unfair advantage to those who disable it.

    “Something I would love to see as a server option (perhaps for some sort of hardcore mode)”

    Making it a player option would just unbalance things a hell of a lot.

    It’s like player who play first person mode in Mount and Blade Warband for the immersion factor, coming up against the every day player who plays 3rd person, the player who is in 3rd person has an advantage of seeing a heck of a lot more and not having his view moving all over the place.

    @PrO-bOy:

    Hmm…
    What if, when you wear a knight’s full armor and helmet, after some swings and runs, you start to sweat, fogging your vision a little?
    Maybe that’s too realistic, i reckon…

    This isn’t paintball :D
    There is probably already effects like blurry vision or tunnel vision in place by the devs for when the player runs out of stamina or gets very low on stamina.



  • @Otreum:

    I searched on the forums for quite a while but did not find anything in relation to this, so figured I will make a new thread.

    Something I would love to see as a server option (perhaps for some sort of hardcore mode), is a “helmet” view, so that the player’s view is partially obstructed by the silhouette of his helmet to create even more combat immersion.
    This would make combat more difficult, and as a result players may be more cautious when fighting, making for more intense combat situations.

    I understand there would be players who would HATE this idea, and others who would thrive on the game being even harder again, and that is why I suggest it to be a server option, not a forced feature.

    So post your thoughts and suggestions, if you like the idea, great, if not, ahwell, as I said, it’s not for everybody.

    This does sound rather interesting, and it would probably make more sense in Chivalry than in War Of The Roses, which does this but is also played in thirdperson, which makes it a bit weird.
    It also has toggleable visors, for instance if you’re wearing a helmet with a visor you can pull it down, obscuring your vision but protecting your face from stabs, slashes and arrows.
    But I don’t know if Chivalry has such a similar level of detail when it comes to protection from armor.



  • (Off topic, but did you purposefully make your name sound like Solonius from “Spartacus: Blood and Sand/Gods of the Arena” but with a lisp? :P)

    I do like the idea of the Visors, you could still get gonked on the side or back of the head and live, but not in the face, however I do question the accuracy of hitboxes in that game.
    Also War of the Roses reminds me of a medievil version of Lord of the Rings: Conquest or Star Wars: Battlegrounds.

    Personally I think if you got cracked in the head hard enough, you’d pretty much be stuffed anyway unless it was only a small hit. Any form of blunt weapon would at the very least rattle the player and phase him/stun him, at the most, buckling the helmet and crushing the skull.



  • This option would affect game balance though, because only the knight class would be likely to wear headgear that somewhat obstructs vision (well, I don’t know about the vanguard either, but it’s a pretty safe guess that at least archers or maa won’t be wearing great helms). Therefore, making it optional is completely out of the question. (Or at least, optionally forced on the player by the server is out of the question. If it’s a client-side option, for atmospherical purposes, you can of course do whatever you please.)

    Either knights need obstructed vision for balance reasons, or (if they are balanced without it) they should never be forced to have obstructed vision. In any case, I think obstructing vision would be a pretty shitty way of balancing a class, so I’m not going to support this suggestion.



  • You have a valid point, other classes that do not wear helmets would not suffer the same problem.

    I guess bringing this idea up without going into detail of other “hardcore mode” elements would make it seem pretty unbalanced.

    Those without helmets would die from any hit to the head as a resort to balancing. Only a well placed neck shot or multiple headshots against a knight would cut his head off or kill him from head damage.

    The knight would be a Tank class, killed easily with the right skill and precision, but deadly to face without the right skill and precision.

    Knights could also choose not to wear a helmet if they so choose to do. Their body would still take more punishment but their head remains as vulnerable as any other player without a helmet.

    The idea definately needs more fleshing out, but I think it is do-able in a “balanced” way that doesn’t completely nerf knights.


  • Developer

    I think this is something that some people would love and find immersive and other people would hate and find ridiculous. Since its such a polarizing feature, but one that a lot of people might enjoy, the only way I see it working is as a visual flare thing only that you can choose to enable or disable based on preference. Maybe even “H” to toggle helmet (V is already in use). If there is enough interest in the idea, we might pursue it for DLC.



  • @Otreum:

    I guess bringing this idea up without going into detail of other “hardcore mode” elements would make it seem pretty unbalanced.

    I believe it’s never a good idea to have two completely separated modes that are balanced entirely differently. It splits up the community and causes a lot of pointless arguments. The thing about a multiplayer game is that multiplayer does not need difficulty options. You up the difficulty by playing against tougher players, not by changing the rules of the game.

    It would be like forcing the best tennis players in the world to play with shoes made out of solid lead. Yes, it’s probably a lot harder to play with a few kilograms of dead weight at your feet, but the increased difficulty comes from something entirely unrelated to the intended skill-set of tennis. If you want the hardest tennis match you can imagine, go challenge Federer. If you can beat him and you’re still not satisfied with the challenge, feel free to order your lead shoes :P.



  • @Tibberius:

    I think this is something that some people would love and find immersive and other people would hate and find ridiculous. Since its such a polarizing feature, but one that a lot of people might enjoy, the only way I see it working is as a visual flare thing only that you can choose to enable or disable based on preference. Maybe even “H” to toggle helmet (V is already in use). If there is enough interest in the idea, we might pursue it for DLC.

    Yeah, that is right, as you can see by the poll already, it’s pretty much an even vote (despite it being 14/9, it’s not like it’s 14/2 or something).

    It would be something worth playing around with in some sort of DLC testing phase maybe, just to see what people think.

    A valid point has been made about a “hardcore” mode splitting the community, and I think it’s a very good point.
    However ultimately it is up to server providers to gauge what their server user’s think of the modes, and whether or not it is worth having a hardcore mode server or not. Obviously if the mode is not very popular, the host will not host a hardcore server or allow for voting of hardcore mode on a normal server.

    If that were the case, I guess players could still have the option to increase their own difficulty in standard mode by turning on their visor and maybe other features such as extra fatigue and adrenaline effects like tunnel vision or damage effects.

    I’m not a big fan of getting the highest score, because often times in games, getting the highest score can be boring and repetative. I’m the type of gamer who likes to create my own game within a game, such as in mount and blade, i’ll wear no armor and take a throwing weapon and use it in melee mode, which is practically useless, but if I kill a heavily armed and armoured opponent, that 1 kill surmounts to the satisfaction of having the highest score in a round.
    That IS just me though, and I know I would definately make the game as difficult as possible for myself. I guess I will find out how difficult the game is when/if I get into beta testing or when the game comes out presumably later this year.



  • Haha, I recognise the ‘going naked with a silly weapon’ in Mount&Blade :). I particularly like the free Vaegir club for that purpose. That actually gives me an idea. I stand by my point that server-side difficulty options make no sense, but I agree that individual difficulty options may be a nice addition. I my opinion, the best way of giving players these options would be

    1. Offering players to increase the difficulty of the core gameplay (making themselves more vulnerable, making their weapons weaker, …), not tacking on nonsense that has nothing to do with the core gameplay (such as restricted vision).
    2. Making sure their choice is visible to other players, so that everyone knows you’re deliberately handicapping yourself (? bragging rights).

    The game is going to feature unlockable weapons, I believe, and I think these two concepts can be integrated perfectly. For example, some of the final unlocks could be civilian tools that are analogous to default weapons, but worse in every respect. Perhaps you could replace your spear with a pitchfork, your combat flail with a grain flail, your short sword with a bread knife, your warhammer with a wooden mallet, and so on. These tools would have the same attack types as the weapon they are analogous to, but the attacks would be slower, weaker and harder to parry with. Assuming an unlock system will be in place in the final game anyway, this would effectively only require modelling work.



  • @TheNarrator:

    Haha, I recognise the ‘going naked with a silly weapon’ in Mount&Blade :). I particularly like the free Vaegir club for that purpose. That actually gives me an idea. I stand by my point that server-side difficulty options make no sense, but I agree that individual difficulty options may be a nice addition. I my opinion, the best way of giving players these options would be

    1. Offering players to increase the difficulty of the core gameplay (making themselves more vulnerable, making their weapons weaker, …), not tacking on nonsense that has nothing to do with the core gameplay (such as restricted vision).
    2. Making sure their choice is visible to other players, so that everyone knows you’re deliberately handicapping yourself (? bragging rights).

    The game is going to feature unlockable weapons, I believe, and I think these two concepts can be integrated perfectly. For example, some of the final unlocks could be civilian tools that are analogous to default weapons, but worse in every respect. Perhaps you could replace your spear with a pitchfork, your combat flail with a grain flail, your short sword with a bread knife, your warhammer with a wooden mallet, and so on. These tools would have the same attack types as the weapon they are analogous to, but the attacks would be slower, weaker and harder to parry with. Assuming an unlock system will be in place in the final game anyway, this would effectively only require modelling work.

    I’m trying to picture someone blocking a pole-axe overhead strike with their little knife :P “FEEL THE POWER OF MY KNIFE! pole-axe shatters” :P

    I do like the idea though :D
    I think instead of making those into weapon choices, there could be weapons that civilians carry, or weapons like that laying about in say…a hay bale (pitchfork), table (knife), shovel (dirt pile or grave) etc etc.
    You could throw your current primary weapon or sheathe it and use the crappy weapon instead.

    An extension to the idea is to have it so you can have your weapon knocked out of your hand if you are low on stamina and try to block a big strike, so then you would have to pick up either your weapon or one of the crappy weapons laying about :)



  • I vote LE SERVER SIDE ONLY as in like a hardcore type deal.



  • true
    serverside only
    if noone likes it, noone will use it
    Implementing it will make 21(by now) of your fans happy but i think it desires loosing 30 mins in PS to make textures and code it ingame
    balance with damage received like already said also should be switched by admin(optionally when turning on inhelmet view)
    I think time lost is completely worth adding variety of gameplay possible so all those who

    would love and find immersive

    and others who

    would hate and find ridiculous.

    find server and mod they like most

    P.S.I’d kill for 3d modeled instead of textured inhelmet view so my view is limited not just by something dark but actual modeled helmet



  • A modelled helmet would work great as the helmet view could shift about to simulate the helmet shuffling while running or if you get hit in the head. Not much while running, but enough to recognize it as a helmet.

    However the helmet would need some amount of blur added to it or something so it doesn’t look like the player is focused on their helmet.

    It could be done with just a black silhoette in photoshop just for a quick test though.