Vanguard rant



  • Anyone else find vanguards as an unbalanced class? I mean, bad enough they have huge reach and damage, but you give them the fastest movement speed for armor value too? The only weaknesses this class has is that it can’t have a shield and that its weapons are slightly slow. When I play as vanguard I find that pressing down the S key while swinging, never even bothering to block, has brought me up to the top of the leaderboard. I may just be playing against baddies or something but really, the vanguard has too many advantages. How about the vanguard gets a little less movement speed?



  • No.

    They already got nerfed as it is.



  • You are playing against baddies. That’s all. Any less movement speed and you might as well play as Knight, which by the way is also awesome. Any more mobility and you might as well play MAA, also awesome. Archers are powerful too, if you can aim well.

    If you are skilled with a class, you will end up beating less skilled people with it. I can agree that swing-spamming works to a certain degree for new players starting as Vanguard or Knight, until they kill too many teammates, or until an above average enemy stabs you dead between your swings with ease.



  • No, they’re perfect as is. Not too strong, not too weak. Personally I wouldn’t mind at all if the game consisted out of only vanguards and knights. The other two classes just piss me off and appear “lame” in my eyes, because they’re so fast :-)

    I prefer good vanguard/knight duels. Favorite parts of the game. Archers and MAA either pick you off from a distance which is frustrating, or suddenly show up and stab you lightning fast in the back and spoil the fight you were in, which is basicly just as annoying. Havn’t met many players who play “honorably” in my eyes.



  • Vanguards are fine. Only think that needs nerfing is the halberd.



  • no nerfing… your all fruits the whole game is pretty much defined by all the flowery people running around as vanguards this is a sword fighting game not who’s got the biggest weapon and just slash away theres nearly no skill as a vanguard this game is supposed to be based on reactions not your lovely sword to be 2 man length long and swing away THIS game SHOULD be defined by the MaA which when first buying this game I thought it was going to be, and it really isnt even the developers fault(though they should of known giving nubs a TOO BIG SWORD of course they will flock to it and ruin the class pickings to everyone just picking a vanguard) its the PEOPLE everyone just wants an advantage to get to the top of the leaderboard showing that the gamer society is abunch of people who dislike technicals and skills and just want to win every game I get into 50%-70% are vanguards then the 10%-20% of archers just tells you the gamer society are a bunch of lollypoplickers as a whole :|

    rant off

    but really shit is ridiculous. and MaA need more stamina WTF?!?!?!



  • @Bloodhead:

    Vanguards are fine. Only think that needs nerfing is the halberd.

    This I agree 100000%

    @L3thal:

    no nerfing… your all fruits the whole game is pretty much defined by all the flowery people running around as vanguards this is a sword fighting game not who’s got the biggest weapon and just slash away theres nearly no skill as a vanguard this game is supposed to be based on reactions not your lovely sword to be 2 man length long and swing away THIS game SHOULD be defined by the MaA which when first buying this game I thought it was going to be, and it really isnt even the developers fault(though they should of known giving nubs a TOO BIG SWORD of course they will flock to it and ruin the class pickings to everyone just picking a vanguard) its the PEOPLE everyone just wants an advantage to get to the top of the leaderboard showing that the gamer society is abunch of people who dislike technicals and skills and just want to win every game I get into 50%-70% are vanguards then the 10%-20% of archers just tells you the gamer society are a bunch of lollypoplickers as a whole

    rant off

    but really shit is ridiculous. and MaA need more stamina WTF?!?!?!

    I couldn’t even read through this run on sentence. But, what I could gather is that you’re saying big 2h swords shouldn’t be so rewarded by lmb spamming, which I 100% agree. You don’t seem to like “big fucking swords”, which I happen to disagree, they are awesome. Maul is the best weapon ever btw.



  • @L3thal:

    no nerfing… your all fruits the whole game is pretty much defined by all the flowery people running around as vanguards this is a sword fighting game not who’s got the biggest weapon and just slash away theres nearly no skill as a vanguard this game is supposed to be based on reactions not your lovely sword to be 2 man length long and swing away THIS game SHOULD be defined by the MaA which when first buying this game I thought it was going to be, and it really isnt even the developers fault(though they should of known giving nubs a TOO BIG SWORD of course they will flock to it and ruin the class pickings to everyone just picking a vanguard) its the PEOPLE everyone just wants an advantage to get to the top of the leaderboard showing that the gamer society is abunch of people who dislike technicals and skills and just want to win every game I get into 50%-70% are vanguards then the 10%-20% of archers just tells you the gamer society are a bunch of lollypoplickers as a whole

    rant off

    but really shit is ridiculous. and MaA need more stamina WTF?!?!?!

    Left-click spamming Vanguards got you down? Press the duck button and profit.



  • the point is everyone generally picks vanguard. Why? because he has a major cheap advantage, The game should be more on dodging, feints, crouching, angles. Not that your sword is so long that you can take out teams with one swing of your sword

    its like asians vs whites

    whites say lemme get a big 100lb claymore and let me just wreck through the battlefield

    while chinese get the lightest weapon and learn the intracies of human movement and so forth and win through science not by who’s got the biggest dick and dominate

    the gamer society at whole OR atleast in this community is abunch of assholes with 100lb claymores running around not WANTING to learn shit because they just want a high kill count. That was the summary of my post



  • @Ragnar:

    Left-click spamming Vanguards got you down? Press the duck button and profit.

    Anymore I see them golfing while they helicopter spam so it makes ducking not viable :(



  • I think everyone needs to keep in mind that since roughly 50% of the soldiers on the field are vanguards in any given pub game, at least 50% of the responders here are going to nervously sputter “What? The Vanguard is OP? My heavens, what ever are you talking about?” :P Even those who aren’t acting in their own self interests may simply not be aware of what it’s like to play as one of the lighter classes.

    I’ll admit to being biased in the other direction, though, since I main as man at arms or archer pretty much equally, and so I have the most trouble with vanguards. I mean, even as an MAA, when facing a vanguard my only advantage is the dodge mechanic and ever so slightly faster foot speed, while he has the charge attack, superior armor and a greater assortment of weapons that include vastly better reach and damage, some of which can 1-shot me. I’m often told that MAA get quick weapons, but vanguards even get one of the MAA’s primary weapons as a secondary, so there goes that line of reasoning. I also hear “but you get shields!” - but whenever possible I put my shield away when dueling, as they aren’t as reliable as people think, particularly against someone with huge reach, and they cost me a ton of valuable stamina (which I need to dodge) to use.

    And honestly, I’m okay with being the underdog in that fight: I’m okay with having vanguards as a weakness in the same way I consider myself (at least, the way I play) to be a menace to archers. It creates a nice, rock-paper-scissors dynamic with the knight as the all-around guy.

    However, the over-representation of the vanguard is a very clear symptom that there is still something out of whack here. Part of the problem, I think, is that the vanguard doesn’t really have a weakness. People say “archers!” but speaking as an archer as well, I don’t find them that much easier to shoot than any other class. In fact, knights are often easier to hit because they’re slower, and a wounded man at arms is easier to finish off. Besides, most archers quickly get tied up in endless arrow duels in large battles, leaving the vanguards to run amok. I know it’s annoying to get shot, but I’d be very surprised if vanguards were reporting that the majority of their deaths were from arrows.

    The thing is, I don’t know what to suggest. I don’t want a damage nerf, per se, as I see vanguards as shock troops who are supposed to wade in with big, sweeping swings. Maybe longer combo and recovery times after swings so they can’t just helicopter forever? I really don’t know, I got nothing.



  • Left-click spamming Vanguards got you down? Press the duck button and profit.

    I’m not complaining because I suck against vanguards or Knights, I eat em for breakfast :k1: its more that I’m sad that gamers dont like learning and employing skill innately.

    e.g. like Call of Duty most ppl just nub up and get the submachine gun and run around like silly people because their just trying to win not learn the map or the technicalness of the games spawn system and so on which would make you alot better. So, In summary innately there wussehs searching for the easiest solution to the problem with no creativity or skill but just logic simple click a button your dead sillyness that I wish would stop :x



  • I only tend to hate the vanguards who win by lmb mashing. I almost exclusively overhead and stab… I rarely combo because I think combos are stupid :P

    There is a technique that can be used with big 2h weapons, it’s just overshadowed by lmb spam.

    I totally agree with anyone who says lmb spam should cost more stamina or something and also halberd is dumb…

    That lmb mashing also sucks when knights and MAA use it too… vanguards just have more reach and get you with it easier…



  • Vanguards are primarily chosen because of their strength, decent armour, long reach and wide sweeps. For new players, this is a nice starting place for them because it is easy to get hits and deal some damage, (to other people who don’t know how to deal with it).

    I agree his swings can be a bit TOO wide sometimes though, I’ve got hit when stood BEHIND one before. The MAA is actually the pinnacle of Chiv gameplay, however he takes quite a bit of skill to play well, so is better for experienced players.

    Also how to deal with a vanguard:

    1. Pick an archer class.
    2. Enjoy the rage.



  • @BobT36:

    Also how to deal with a vanguard:

    1. Pick an archer class.
    2. Enjoy the rage.

    I use the rage to fuel my hammer-powered killing rampage. :berz:



  • Implying that an archer can actually hit a vanguard that knows his left foot from his right, and can pull off the three shots required to kill a vanguard, and has the time to line up three shots with the vanguards movement speed, yes - archers WOULD counter vanguards. Unfortunately this is very rarely the case and vanguards are left with no weakness. So I suppose that if you’re a human aimbot vanguards wouldn’t be much of a problem.

    Also, what the fuck is up with the halberd? I don’t know much about polearms but I don’t think that you can carry it from the opposite end with one hand when performing a thrust.



  • Um so it takes THREE crossbow bolts to kill a Vanguard? There are many archer weapons of different strengths.

    Also as to hitting, all about positioning and even stealth with some maps.

    Wayyy back to Alpha I’ve been hearing RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE about archers, and it has always been from Vanguards.



  • It would take two crossbow bolts to kill a Vanguard from the heavy or regular crossbow, implying the archer can fire, reload, and fire again without missing in the time that it takes for the vanguard to close in on the archer. All I’m saying is that, unless this archer is an exceptionally accurate and fast shooter, the vanguard is going to win.



  • “I totally agree with anyone who says lmb spam should cost more stamina or something and also halberd is dumb…”

    I keep reading people complain about the halberd’s stab, but I have no problem sidestepping it. So why is it so bad? Just sidestep or block it with a shield. :fenc:



  • The problem is not dealing with a vanguard, But its that everyone picks a vanguard.

    @BobT36:

    Vanguards are primarily chosen because of their strength, decent armour, long reach and wide sweeps. For new players, this is a nice starting place for them because it is easy to get hits and deal some damage, (to other people who don’t know how to deal with it).

    I agree his swings can be a bit TOO wide sometimes though, I’ve got hit when stood BEHIND one before. The MAA is actually the pinnacle of Chiv gameplay, however he takes quite a bit of skill to play well, so is better for experienced players.

    The focus is so much on vanguards though (or there so overpowered) that people minds start hating MaA because they have no chance(atleast in their eyes) so what happens? the whole game gets defined by vanguards and no one uses as you say and I believe the pinnacle of this game the MaA so you guys have pretty much made it counter-intuitive to how the game should be played dodging and fast twitch reaction times because your trying to accomodate for nubs, and unfortunately Humans are creatures of repetition so they pick vanny for easyness and dmg capabilities and tend to just stick with it forever. Or atleast from how the game servers are showing everyone is still a super nub or think the vanguard for some reason is the more elite class which seems like the latter.


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