Archers ruin the melee fun Fest?



  • Hey guys I just bought this game and started playing for the past five hours. The melee combat is really great and everything but the more I play the more I scratch my head wondering what are some better ways to implement archers in this game so that the players who only enjoy melee combat don’t feel like their party is being crashed? I mean does anyone actually enjoy fighting an archer?

    In the end I think the best solution would be having custom servers that allow administrators to say no archers allowed. Just like in counterstrike how they are custom servers that say there are no AWP or auto snipers allowed

    I actually enjoy fighting other melee players and I don’t actually mind getting killed because I feel like it is a clean fight and sometimes it is actually pretty funny being killed. But man having to deal with archers is just really really bad gameplay. Even if I don’t deal with them they are just sitting there trying to snipe me as I’m having fun fighting at melee players. I just want to say dude go play counterstrike or something let us have our melee fun.

    Of course I can’t blame the player as much as I can question the developers as to why they decided to add a archer class in this type of game. I am guessing may be they were a bit hesitant apprehensive at releasing a melee only first-person combat game? Maybe they were afraid that the game would not sell well if it was only melee combat because of the pre-valence of ranged shooting in first-person shooters?



  • 1. Google “Age of Chivalry” - This isn’t their first trip around the block with medieval warfare.

    2. Archers were definitely a part of the historical genre. Swordplay and archery are the theme of the game.

    3. How dare you call into question the importance of classes, simply because you don’t like them and/or can’t kill them. Take some time and play the game, get a feel for the mechanics, then search the forums. There’s really no need to start another Archer-rage thread when so many already exist.

    Hell, PLAY an archer and tell us how easy it is for you to score a kill. It’s not just stand still and snipe…



  • Okay then let me elaborate a bit on the purpose of my post so that other people won’t be likely to misinterpret this as some sort of rage post.

    It’s not a question of how easy or how difficult it is to play an archer or how important of a role that they can play in the game in terms of strategy nor is it about historical accuracy. I am simply talking about fun gameplay. I know that varies from player to player because we all have our subjective preferences for what is fun, but this is a forum after all and I’m just discussing my opinion on the matter.

    When you say how dare I question the importance of the class, you have to realize that I’m not actually questioning how important archers are in terms of strategy, or historical accuracy. I am simply questioning their ability to crash the party so to speak for the player base who really enjoys only melee combat., And who specifically bought this game because they were so attracted to a melee first-person multiplayer game.

    I’m not trying to start a flame war or some sort of rage post. If anything the defensive attitude of an archer apologist is probably what contributes more to the flame wars. Please just let us talk about one thing: our perspective of what is fun gameplay.



  • If you complain about archers, you are bad plain & simple. Personally one of my favorite things to do as a vanguard is to flank them and one shot them with my Zweihänder, took out like six in a row one time, was freaking awesome.



  • Not it’s not that I’m bad, it’s just that I don’t particularly enjoy fighting them even if I could beat them easily I still wouldn’t really enjoy it because I play this game for the toe to toe melee combat against other melee players.

    It’s funny how in every game when a player says that they don’t enjoy a particularly niche class they get called out for being bad players. It’s like in forge or Guild wars two PVP when a player complains against the stealth mechanics and then there only met with LOL noob learn to play stealth classes are easy to beat and are just bad. I think maybe this is due to some sort of defensive attitude of the teenage male trying to assert himself over a peer.

    Anyway please don’t say stuff like that because I’m not trying to start a flame war here.



  • I think a ranged class is needed to make the game work internally:

    Without Archers the vanguard class would be better since they no longer suffer as much by having no shields.

    Archers are needed to force a decision in standoff situations, you can’t stand around since you’ll eventually get shot. This provides an incentive to actually attack. I’d suppose this matters more in LTS since this gamemode often lacks an incentive to actually fight.

    Archers force variety in enemy army composition, you need Knights who can use shields to protect from arrows (but who are slow) and perhaps MAA who can run behind enemy lines and harass the archers. Or your own archers to shoot theirs.
    Without them it’d be all about melee efficiency. Seeing a variety of classes and combat styles is a plus in my opinion.

    On public servers the most common problem is that people who play archers suck, not archery in itself, you’re simply going to lose if you have many archers. It might be different if people could actually aim but usually theres no more than 1 or 2 who actually contribute more than if they picked a melee class and swung wildly.

    So yes, we need archers and they don’t need to be restricted, the “free market” should sort this out on it’s own.



  • @chawe:

    I think maybe this is due to some sort of defensive attitude of the teenage male trying to assert himself over a peer.

    Not quite. When you hit 30 and have well over a decade of online gaming experience, you tend to see through complaints to what they’re really based upon. People generally “have fun” when winning. If an archer routinely beats you, you aren’t winning, thus not having fun.

    If the archer made no difference to you, then why even make a post about it? You can go toe-to-toe all day long in Chivalry. There isn’t always an archer lurking in the shadows waiting to snipe you. I am adept in zig-zagging my way to an archers face and slicing it off with ease. Why don’t I care about archers? Because I can beat them and win.

    If you want to host a discussion about everyone’s “perspectives on having fun”, then perhaps take it to the off-topic board, or even a psychology forum. General Chivalry Discussion is not the place for it. This board is for discussing Chivalry specifically.

    Hopefully you realize why people immediately call you bad or believe you are inept at facing archers when you create a post opposing their existence. Asking any veteran, competent player will expose that archers are an enjoyable dynamic to Chivalry and improve upon the gameplay with the tactics they bring to the table.



  • If enemy archers put you down, equip a shield.

    If friendly archers put you down, equip a shield on your back.

    I almost never use the shields though, I rely on my random zigzagging combined with ducking and being generally annoying as a MaA on my archer hunts. Throwing knives are fun too if they don’t move a lot.



  • @JHoersten2:

    Asking any veteran, competent player will expose that archers are an enjoyable dynamic to Chivalry and improve upon the gameplay with the tactics they bring to the table.

    I’d consider myself to be a competent player, and a damn good archer.
    I also know that I hate playing against good archers, and I’m sure other people hate playing against me when I’m archer. It doesn’t matter what shield you’re using, your feet are always vulnerable and I’ll hit them 80% of the time. I imagine this gets pretty infuriating to play against, as once i’ve sunk an arrow or two into your feet, you’re just a cudgel or two away from death. But that’s really not where the fun killing begins. It starts when you charge into glorious battle with your bros, all spamming C, only to be dropped with a single headshot (granted you aren’t knight) by a guy 30 yards away. And it continues. Every time you’re in a heated tussle with an enemy and you’re about to land a nasty hit, an arrow interrupts your attack. In turn, your head gets lopped off with nothing to do. This isn’t very fun nor avoidable if the enemy archer has any skill.

    In addition to this, it is incredibly easy to beat people down with that ultra fast cudgel. The overhead has a perfect angle to get around parries and shields, and has incredible comboability. The only things that give me pause as an archer with a cudgel are an equally skilled archer, a group of multiple people, or a damn good MaA.



  • If you’re getting sniped a lot in the midst of combat, you need to be moving around a lot more.



  • Well, what I don’t understand is how is archery “wrecking the party” anymore than someone with a 2H running into a group that has already been fighting presses LMB and then swings his camera in a circle killing everyone (including teammates). Archers are just too important to the game even from a balancing standpoint. I know the argument wasn’t about the archer as a class but archers in my opinion are under powered and have the most difficult time “wrecking parties.” Try that hunting knife…



  • Im all up for custom server configuration where you can disable the I love you.



  • Archers annoy a LOT of people. Lets stop pretending otherwise. The most complaints i hear are TKs and archers.

    With the other classes, they have to get in close, and you generally see who it is, and have a chance to block and fight back. Yes theres lots of times when you get ganked from behind but the feeling is still there that you could have stopped it. With archers, you are just suddenly dead. The feeling is more like theres some random clock that kills you at random times. For many people that isnt fun.

    Im curious for people whom play other melee games like War of Roses or Warband if there is as much hatred for archers there, and if not, why not?



  • People dont like archers because they are usually unaware of one targeting them so they feel they didnt have a chance and so rage.

    But when I play an archer, and I have leveled up to the warbow, it is damn hard to hit anyone and in close combat I very rarely win.

    As others have pointed out you can take a shield or move around more - its extremely hard to hit a moving target without some luck.



  • I ruin a lot of archers’ archery fun fest. Lopping 3 archer heads in a row with a giant Zweihander is fun. Getting TKed by friendly archer on the other hand sure is annoying though. Usually they try and fail to shoot the enemy I’m already fighting. If they want to help, they should at least take out a dagger and backstab them for bonus damage.

    @gregcau:

    But when I play an archer, and I have leveled up to the warbow, it is damn hard to hit anyone and in close combat I very rarely win.

    People are annoyed by only two types of archers: incompetent archers on their team who TK/contribute nothing towards winning, very good archers on the opposing team who have deadly accuracy at very long range.

    Believe me, there are some very good archers, and they make the class look overpowered. Fortunately (sadly?) they are fairly rare.



  • @ransack:

    Im curious for people whom play other melee games like War of Roses or Warband if there is as much hatred for archers there, and if not, why not?

    In those games I suspect that archery doesn’t feel as peripheral as it does here. I’ve seen people post about how ranged combat adds depth, but If it just feels tacked on it has the opposite effect. I know that was something brought up in a few reviews of the game; I’m not really a fan of his videos, but I think TotalBiscuit’s comparison of WotR and Chivalry nailed it when he described Chivalry’s ranged combat as ‘an afterthought’ when compared to the ‘excellent mechanics’ of the archery in WotR, going on to decide in favour of Chivalry due to its melee combat mechanics. The IGN review made similar points.

    I think this is partly the reason the class is disliked - like Ransack said, a lot of people feel annoyed when an archer kills them as it feels like something that ‘just happens’ and interrupts the more compelling ‘real’ melee part of the game. I don’t think it will happen, but I’d like to see a class-restriction option to limit them to at least 50% of the team (if not less).



  • When an archer kills me one time, it pisses me off and i swith to archer with warbow and i hunt him. If he kills me again, it’s a good archer then i switch back to my melee class and ignore him until i can one shot him with a sneaky approch :D

    They are part of the game. During middle age battles archers were more annoying i think. Imagine hundreds of arrows in the sky falling on the battlefield.

    It should have been a lot of TK and rage :P

    I think archer are a normal class, it’s not easy to aim non stop moving guyz whose half have a shield.



  • @JHoersten2:

    Hell, PLAY an archer and tell us how easy it is for you to score a kill. It’s not just stand still and snipe…

    I’m not advocating removing archers or upset/complaining about them but I just wanted to say that I disagree with this. It honestly isn’t too hard at all to hit people as an archer, but you usually don’t kill them unless they were previously wounded.

    Archers annoy people, and this is my and my friends opinion, because while people are in a melee fight they’re suddenly hit by an arrow and left incapable of defending themselves from the arrow hit and usually get killed by the person they were engaged with,which is to say the least, frustrating.



  • Archers serve a good purpose and are a fun addition and extra challenge in objective based game modes.

    They are just annoying and make the game worse in FFA and LTS. Sadly, it seems that free for all and last team standing are the only game modes that actually have full servers.

    I would be very happy to see archers removed entirely from LTS game mode, but they are a vital part of the gameplay in the other modes. Archers force you to think about using tactical cover to advance, they make it possible to hold large lanes of land, and they make it more risky to clump up with your allies around objectives which is otherwise a foolproof strategy. They also serve to keep you always aware and on your toes, because just standing still in the open is potentially deadly.



  • @chawe:

    Not it’s not that I’m bad, it’s just that I don’t particularly enjoy fighting them even if I could beat them easily I still wouldn’t really enjoy it because I play this game for the toe to toe melee combat against other melee players.

    With all do respect sir, Open you server browser and browse for a “Duel” Server, You’ll get all your toe to toe combat right there ;) Besides, There s an actual duel mode coming out next patch and I’m 99% positive that there will be an option to restrict classes. All in all, archer haters will be able to rejoice in their corner of chivalry and i’ll still be serving arrows for breakfast.

    Its been said like a million times, but Archers ARE easy to take out most of the time….Unless you are me and have a cudgel in your hand. Then i will use the wooden spoon to smash your face in.

    Good day , Sir Knight.


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