Backpedaling vs. Blocking.



  • Picked this game up, and there’s one thing that stands out to me.

    Blocking is goddamn worthless.

    Now, I don’t mean that it doesn’t work, or that it isn’t effective, or that a player can’t skillfully block incoming attacks. This forum has probably seen enough silly complaining about that.

    The problem is that blocking takes stamina, while simply backpedaling from a counter attack does not.

    I love the combat so far, but I sense that everyone has seen fights devolve into Vanguard Jousting.

    Rather than Block->Counterattack and Attack->Block mechanics, I’m seeing fights devolve into Attack->Backpedal out of range of the counter attack. Obviously the most effective for this is Vanguard, with the most reach and still decent speed. Team elimination is usually won by 3-6 Vanguards running around charge attacking and running away again.

    As a Knight there’s nothing to do about it, just as a matter of stamina cost. They spend some stamina attacking you, you spend some stamina blocking. You spend some stamina counter-attacking, they spend zero stamina just backpedaling out of reach. Hell, they’re probably already backpedaling before they’ve completed their attack because their weapon will reach you anyway as you try to close to poke them back. It breaks the game in half that the best defense is just running away after a poke instead of committing to a fight. This could be the realm of Men at Arms, but as I put it earlier, ‘Vanguard Jousting’ shouldn’t rule the game.

    tl;dr Blocking seems counter intuitive to combat in this game because backpedaling negates the damage just the same for no stamina cost.

    Is there something that can be done about it? Slower movement speed after attacking comes to mind. Slower backpedaling alone wouldn’t solve it because people would just turn to run.

    Dunno. I’m just really put off by my fights with Vanguards being “Block… he’s out of range… Block… he’s out of range… Block… I’m out of stamina… I’m dead.”

    Edit: Another possible solution is that getting your attack blocked halts or slows your movement. This gives blocking much more positional and offensive value for having a stamina cost and keeps enemies from just trying to hack at you around your shield all willy-nilly (and they tend to succeed because they’ll circle-strafe you at the same time).

    Movement needs some restriction once you engage somebody head-on. Swinging a 12 pound sword and then bolting off in the opposite direction shouldn’t happen, if you care for a realism appeal too.



  • I’ve played around 50 hours so no expert - I still suck. When I play a vanguard against a knight I cannot backpedal fast enough to stay out of range. Even if I jab from a distance and backpedal.

    They charge forward and cut me down in between blocks. Perhaps they are using sprint to rush forward.



  • That’s how Vanguards are meant to be played. You keep enemies out of your range, rather than letting them get in close and trade hits and blocks. Otherwise, what’s the point of a high reach weapon?

    Knights should have no problem getting in range of a Vanguard if they’re persistent. They have the least stamina consumption from blocking with their heavy weapons and large shields, and no class can backpeddal faster than a Knight can move forward - not to mention you can also sprint forward, but not backwards. In fact, if any class has trouble getting in range of a Vanguard, it’s another Vanguard with a shorter range weapon.

    I play against some of the best VG players in the game (the ones that abuse hopping and turning around to create distance, instead of just backpeddaling - which is far more effective), and I don’t have that much trouble getting in range of their stab spam even as an archer.



  • @Ranzear:

    Picked this game up, and there’s one thing that stands out to me.

    Blocking is goddamn worthless.

    Now, I don’t mean that it doesn’t work, or that it isn’t effective, or that a player can’t skillfully block incoming attacks. This forum has probably seen enough silly complaining about that.

    The problem is that blocking takes stamina, while simply backpedaling from a counter attack does not.

    I love the combat so far, but I sense that everyone has seen fights devolve into Vanguard Jousting.

    Rather than Block->Counterattack and Attack->Block mechanics, I’m seeing fights devolve into Attack->Backpedal out of range of the counter attack. Obviously the most effective for this is Vanguard, with the most reach and still decent speed. Team elimination is usually won by 3-6 Vanguards running around charge attacking and running away again.

    As a Knight there’s nothing to do about it, just as a matter of stamina cost. They spend some stamina attacking you, you spend some stamina blocking. You spend some stamina counter-attacking, they spend zero stamina just backpedaling out of reach. Hell, they’re probably already backpedaling before they’ve completed their attack because their weapon will reach you anyway as you try to close to poke them back. It breaks the game in half that the best defense is just running away after a poke instead of committing to a fight. This could be the realm of Men at Arms, but as I put it earlier, ‘Vanguard Jousting’ shouldn’t rule the game.

    tl;dr Blocking seems counter intuitive to combat in this game because backpedaling negates the damage just the same for no stamina cost.

    Is there something that can be done about it? Slower movement speed after attacking comes to mind. Slower backpedaling alone wouldn’t solve it because people would just turn to run.

    Dunno. I’m just really put off by my fights with Vanguards being “Block… he’s out of range… Block… he’s out of range… Block… I’m out of stamina… I’m dead.”

    Edit: Another possible solution is that getting your attack blocked halts or slows your movement. This gives blocking much more positional and offensive value for having a stamina cost and keeps enemies from just trying to hack at you around your shield all willy-nilly (and they tend to succeed because they’ll circle-strafe you at the same time).

    Movement needs some restriction once you engage somebody head-on. Swinging a 12 pound sword and then bolting off in the opposite direction shouldn’t happen, if you care for a realism appeal too.

    So I agree with your assesment. and as another poster countered your argumeant with is opinion, I am then left to suggest that there needs to be a CAP on the Vangaurd class with its current skills/settings in place. Like the other poster said. Knights should be able to counter VG’s. Realistically that is BALLONY. The amount of armor should make a knight a sitting duck compared to a vangaurd. HOWEVER. in this game as we all know, most players abuse these some what considered OP powers of the VG. There is simply too many people playing VG when matches start. Second to that I would say Archers.

    I am usually going up against 2 to 3 VG’s at once with a archer shooting at me from a distance. There needs to be a cap on classes and I believe that would be bring true balance. Imagine a game with the opposing team is all VG’s all they have to do is spam LMB and hit everyone.

    Of course there is gonna be some nay sayer on here cause they like the again somewhat OP skills of VG



  • You’re attacking too early if a Vanguard can just walk out of reach. Backpedal and constant poke spamming is kind of difficult to deal with if feints are thrown in, but block, sprint forward, overhead is a pretty simple thing to do. It’s your fault if you can’t close the distance after successfully blocking.


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