Wall of text with tons of suggestions by Wolfy



  • Greetings folks,
    This is a short list based upon ideas I have previously had although I’ve had time to re-consider those and come up with new factors that may make them Do-able, also a few other ideas I’ve always thought about but never expressed here! This list of suggestions will have a number right next to it, so when debating or expressing your opinion, please state the Suggestion’s idea so that everyone here may understand easier on what the invidual person is talking about.

    ? Catagory: Fall damage.
    ? Fall damage multiplier (1)
    I think that the fall damage in Chivalry should have a certain multiplier or resistance to fall damage, like the each four classes in Chivalry have to the seven different damage types(swing, pierce, blunt, gene…ect). It would atleast make more sense if an Archer who only wears a padded leather takes less fall damage where the Knight takes more due to the extra weight on the armour they were, they already have the difference factor with their movement speed, but fall damage should also be implanted in my opinion! Perhaps there should be a increased multiplier where Archers have the least, and the knight has the most, Or a fall damage resistance.

    ? Kick/bash increasing fall damage (2)
    A input that would be great for the Kicking and Bashing from edges where you can often find on Hillside, except for the insta-kill ones cause that wouldn’t matter if it had a multiplier or not. However, I think Kick and Bash would be more considered as a finisher IF it had the potentional opportunity to take out an enemy by kicking them down from a edge so that they will take fall damage, although with its current system, your opponent really needs to have low health left in order for you to take them out, so why not just dispatch your opponent with a weapon instead, less effort! but if kicks or bash had the chance to take out an enemy that has not been harmed once, it may become great! Already right now we got certain areas like spikes and water where you may kick your opponent into that leads to a insta-death, but for certain edges where they land upon solid ground, they can brush the pain away and run straight back to you, by adding two different types of fall damage, one that is caused by either jumping or walking out from a edge, or one that is casued by a kick or bash. BUT, this might be a huge overkill for the Knights IF fall damage multiplier was also a factor that played in the game, meaning Knights will recieve two strong hits.

    ? Negate fall damage over to another player (3)
    By falling and landing upon a enemy or ally should make you transfere your own fall damage onto them while you take only a minor part of it. Suggestion number 1# would get along fine with this suggestion, it would make Knights cause more damage to their vicitms.
    This options allows the opportunity to flank enemies from above and kill them with a attack they would never see coming. -Personally I’d love the feeling if I had a once in a life time moment where I’d see two knights rushing for the third trebutchet using the road that is closest to the cliff-side wall, then jump down from the castle walls at trebutchet 2, jump and hit the first knight, instantly killing him due to a high fall damage, then fight off the other one with the element of surprise. Although should the suggestion number 2# play well with this suggestion too? being kicked from a edge and luckily falling upon some friendlies or enemies underneath you?

    ? Weapon mechanism.
    ? Alternative weapon side (4)
    With all of the weapons in chivalry, there are some who has a two-sided edge, although the back-end is currently only there as cosmetical appeal, but what if weapons such as Warhammer, Poleaxe and Halberds. It would make some weapons have a unique feature to make them slightly more versatile. it just depends on the attack (I.E. Its overhead attack is actually with the hammer side of it, you see your character swap it back over after the animation has completed)
    For example: The halberd would have the opportunity to swap between having SwingBlunt (axe head) or Pierceblunt (pointy edge on other side) damage type with the slash or overhead attacks.

    ? Alternative kick/bash (5)
    Giving the player an opportunity to do a alternative kick/bash that would only serve the ability to flinch an opponent, no knock back or high damage caused by it. Maybe a rapid punch or a hit with the weapons pommel?

    ? Kick/Bash restriction (6)
    Simply adding a longer cooldown to Kicks or Bash so that the opponent may now constantly spam with the kick and knock back their opponent all the time, till their stamina won’t let them carry on, giving them a cooldown like the way they did in Left 4 Dead 2. The cooldown should not remove the players ability to perfom other moves, just simply restricting them from doing it again so rapidly. this would remove the option to kick-spam someone to death when they reach under 15 health

    ? Projectile resupply from dead (7)
    I have already noticed that this resupplying of projectile weapons from dead-bodies does infact aquire during singleplayer / offline-mode, although it does not do in Multiplayer, it would serve great to make weapons such as Javelin slightly more useful, although it should come with a restriction where Bolts & Arrows cannot resupply from dead due to their high ammunition capacity.

    ? Wooden shafted weapon breaks upon parry (8)
    This might not be suitable unless there are some major changes lead to this direction, and with caution. Making weapons that has a wooden shaft, like axes and polearms have the ability to break after several amounts of hits, less from a heavier weapon like Maul for example, thous might encourage those weapons to carry a metal shield to battle, and giving them a reason to be faster than weapons that are 90% metal like swords.

    ? Quick-block (9)
    To make a shield unique for its defending ability, there should be two additional ways to perfom a block. There should be a regular hold block and a quick-block that would allow the shield user to perfom a counter-attack IF its performed with a well timing, The quick-block should take less stamina, while hold block should take more stamina and function as normal, this would sorta be like the wretched “Tap-block” that were back in Age of Chivalry, with the exception that its blockable.

    ? Alternative kick / bash finisher (10)
    Instead of giving Kicks or Bash a instant death to whomever gets hit while having low-enough health to actually die from it, I believe there should be more to it than just a instant-death, what IF the player is knocked down to the floor where the player would have to slowly raise themself up, and while they are down the other player is able to attack the player and take him out. This would be great for making Kick / bash kills having a bit more depht, it would also open the opportunity to Survive a kick / bash-spammer If someone manages to draw the opponents attention away from you till you get enough time to recover and raise up, but this may be exploited in several ways like, by constantly kicking down the player for each time the player would attempt to get up, kicking / bashing someone during a knock down should however kill, and also if someone recently gets up from being knocked down to prevent the opponent trapping the player for ever in a kick / bash knock down spam

    ? Hitbox.
    ? Collision box re-do (11)
    This might be an door that leads to several opportunity to exploit exactly like it is often done in Hl2 source games or the old pavise exploit, although if right cards are played out and certain restrictions made, it would be a great input in my opinion, by making the collision box lower down to the players position during crouching so that another player may jump over him. Imagine if someone is really found of perfoming jump attacks, but by unfortunate for the jumping soldier, the opponent that player faces perfoms a duck in the same moment as the jump attack is performed, causing the player to jump over him? Or giving shields walls an ability to guard their soldiers till they get close enough, then they lower their shield and duck so that the soldiers behind may simply jump over them and flank the enemy

    Please share your thoughts.



  • 1.No
    2.No
    3.No
    4.Yes
    5.Yes
    6.Yes
    7.Yes
    8.No, no one would use 2 handed wooden shafted weapons.
    9.No
    10.No
    11.No



  • 11 sounds really really cool. Why not metacrop?
    1:neatral
    2:yes
    3:no i just seems too luck based.
    4:only if they can balance it in a way that wont make the weapon overpowered
    5:no, seems to spam able
    6:I have never experienced this type of spam before
    7:but then how would it work if one guy has a long body disappear time an someone else had a short time? one person would see their fellow archer get bolts from nothing???
    8:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, i like my halberd.
    9:meh
    10:nah, just not dependable enough



  • @micinlysgod:

    11 sounds really really cool. Why not metacrop?

    Because as Wolfy said it leads to exploits.



  • The eight suggestion would really be a bummer if any wooden shafted weapon would break upon only a few parried blows, though my idea was to give an opportunity where wooden shaft weapons will break at somepoint, giving them a health at perhaps 1.000? This would however only serve well in a gamemode such as Teamobjective, and this might turn out rather annoying in duel mode where you stand with 19 - 0 in Score then suddenly your wooden shafted weapon breaks.

    About the fourth, giving the opportunity to choose between either hitting with the axe or the hammerhead when perfoming an slash or overhead attack would be a great input, considering that some weapons does have a two-sided different edges.

    And the reason why I stated that the 11th suggestion was to state that it can be exploited, so therefore the developers should carefully consider how to perfom this IF they ever make this optional. I’m sure they would be able to make this non-exploitable with some work, as they perfectly worked around the “Feint combo” exploit.

    Also it would serve this post well if more explaination with your Yes/no answer were provided so that I may know where I had been right or wrong at, it would make the post 10x better :-)



  • You started off strong, and then got more and more into the kind of suggestions that only look good on their own and not when you think in terms of actual effects they’d have on the game.

    The idea of different fall damage for lighter classes is one I really like, because it encourages different routes for different classes - like on Ruins, the men-at-arms would have no problem dropping right off the second level and on to the ground, but the knights would take some damage for doing so and thus be encouraged to go the long way 'round down the stairs.

    On top of that, fall damage amplified when you’re knocked off instead of dropping off would increase the combat effectiveness of kicks and knockbacks on high ground and add new things to be aware of in combat. There are already some areas where you can be kicked to certain death, but more damage from being kicked off ledges would add this kind of gameplay to almost all maps. It’s analogous of ring outs in fighters - obviously in any kind of combat you never want to have your back against a ledge.

    Being able to drop on players to damage them I support as it gives heavier classes a counterbalance to taking more damage from falls, because now they can use that damage against their enemies. Would have to change the weird “bouncing” when you land on someone, though. Also it’s just damn hilarious.

    Being able to use more of your weapon would be cool, but there’s already arguments over the controls for alternate swings. What do you press to modify your attacks to do left-side overhead with the back side of a halberd? It just seems like it could be too complicated.

    For an alt kick/bash I personally think kicking and shoving should be two separate things (F to kick, Alt + F to shove/shield bash), with the kick being the flinch/guard break and the shove creating distance. You would be able to combo off of a kick as well to make it a more powerful offensive move.

    Cooldown on kick I don’t really see a point in. It’s hard to know for sure when someone is X kicks away from death. When I see players doing this it mostly ends up with them being out of stamina and dying when they can no longer kick. Spam kicks are annoying but not exactly gamebreaking.

    Picking throwing weapons off corpses I can agree with. I can see it being annoying in last team standing though, where throwing weapons can already provide the more accurate - or often just luckier - team with powerful momentum. I think in TO mode, when you kill an enemy you should be able to “loot” any throwables he was carrying (that you have equipped) to resupply yourself. This definitely shouldn’t be included in LTS for the same reason ammo boxes aren’t.

    8+ is when you start to get into the kinds of suggestions that sound good on paper but when applied to actual gameplay just end up being broken or pointless.



    1. Kinda ok. Maa can use a mobility buff in vertical maps like the catapult part.

    2. I don’t really like this, not really intuitive. + If 1 is implemented this becomes less necessary.

    3. This is kinda cool. My only concern about this is that situations like that are very rare and it would be a little bit a waste of development time from such a small dev team. EDIT: i didn’t think about super mario’ing enemies. I like this :D.

    4. Good idea. Another button to memorise will be bad for me but i’m bad anyway. Or a different way could be to have combo attacks use the other side of the weapon.

    5. Not sure about this. No opinion.

    6. Ok.

    7. It’s silly that you can’t get javelins from enemies you have hit with a javelin. Should have already been in the game.

    8. This needs a lot testing on beta servers. Hard to give an opinion about because it completely changes the game. If you have breakable weapons then you also need breakable shields.

    9. If i understand correctly this would be like parrying but with a shield? Don’t really like it, shield is good enough as it is, even if this gives more opportunities for a good player when using a shield.

    10. I don’t see the point. How would this make the game better?

    11. Good idea.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Being able to use more of your weapon would be cool, but there’s already arguments over the controls for alternate swings. What do you press to modify your attacks to do left-side overhead with the back side of a halberd? It just seems like it could be too complicated.

    Taking the idea from another game, the execution could be rather simple. You seem to assume that you decide during the attack which part of the weapon should be used. But you could simply add a button that changes grip permanently. So, the halberd would have the axe head up front per default and you hit with it. Press a button, turn halberd around and now your swings and obverheads will always hit with the hook/backspike.

    Either have a new button for it or simply press 1 again - it already does change the grip on bastard swords, why not let it do the same to the asymmetrical-headed weapons.

    I like this idea, the problem I see is that some weapons could be too versatile this way, making other weapons useless. May need a large amount of weapon balancing.



  • As for the suggestion to how to make Alternative swing directions easy to use, I got a simple suggestion. What if there was added a different “Stance” that would enable the player to slash from the other direction. Like, the player first holds his weapon to the left side, there could be some sort of toggle-able button that makes the player change stance, like moving his weapon over to the right side, preparing to swing from that direction. It would look rather strange IF the player held the sword ready from left side, then suddenly the player would swing from the right side?

    This option could also be done for Alternative side on certain weapons, but making the player simply swap flip the weapon to the other side and use that, also it wouldn’t be too bad for Halberd I think, you can choose between Swingblunt or Pierceblunt damage element. Blunt or bluntpierce for Warhammer.

    Giving both features a toggle-able button would be the way to solve this, both the toggling between stance and weapon side should not have a long recovery, cooldown or that much time to perfom. As for the two weapon mechanism above combined with combo attacks, I think that needs some heavy re-considering, if you should be able to swap edges as you prepare to hit with the second or third attack, or if you are able to manipulate the stance swap and slash twice from one side.

    Also adding a feature for shields to break after taking too many hits wouldn’t be too bad. Buckler should break rarely, but tower shield should take even longer time to break.
    This might be a great input for Team objective, but perhaps not for duel mode ( Unless duel mode regenerates the player to 100% for each victory )
    When I say adding a chance where the weapons and shields breaking by parrying too much blows, I’m not implying it should break within a few blows, perhaps 30 or 50? depending on the size of weapon.

    As for being able to loot dead bodies for unused projectiles that are same as your own or the one that are attached to your victims body should be a option available for last team-standing and aswell any other gamemode, its not like you are camping right next to a ammo crate, you may have to take a huge risk by walking over to the dead body where some of the enemies might be. For projectile weapons with low ammo count this would be great, especially for javelins!

    The fifth about alternative bash / kick is just a simple punch that would flinch the enemy, this could be great for players who use slow weapons.



  • @Don_Kanaille:

    @SlyGoat:

    Being able to use more of your weapon would be cool, but there’s already arguments over the controls for alternate swings. What do you press to modify your attacks to do left-side overhead with the back side of a halberd? It just seems like it could be too complicated.

    Taking the idea from another game, the execution could be rather simple. You seem to assume that you decide during the attack which part of the weapon should be used. But you could simply add a button that changes grip permanently. So, the halberd would have the axe head up front per default and you hit with it. Press a button, turn halberd around and now your swings and obverheads will always hit with the hook/backspike.

    Either have a new button for it or simply press 1 again - it already does change the grip on bastard swords, why not let it do the same to the asymmetrical-headed weapons.

    I like this idea, the problem I see is that some weapons could be too versatile this way, making other weapons useless. May need a large amount of weapon balancing.

    I have to admit I like this idea. Like switching between semi and fully auto firing modes in an FPS. Could be used to implement half-swording techniques for knights’ and vanguards’ swords (grabbing the blade for more powerful thrusts) as well as switching which side of your halberd/etc. you attack with.



  • @SlyGoat:

    @Don_Kanaille:

    @SlyGoat:

    Being able to use more of your weapon would be cool, but there’s already arguments over the controls for alternate swings. What do you press to modify your attacks to do left-side overhead with the back side of a halberd? It just seems like it could be too complicated.

    Taking the idea from another game, the execution could be rather simple. You seem to assume that you decide during the attack which part of the weapon should be used. But you could simply add a button that changes grip permanently. So, the halberd would have the axe head up front per default and you hit with it. Press a button, turn halberd around and now your swings and obverheads will always hit with the hook/backspike.

    Either have a new button for it or simply press 1 again - it already does change the grip on bastard swords, why not let it do the same to the asymmetrical-headed weapons.

    I like this idea, the problem I see is that some weapons could be too versatile this way, making other weapons useless. May need a large amount of weapon balancing.

    I have to admit I like this idea. Like switching between semi and fully auto firing modes in an FPS. Could be used to implement half-swording techniques for knights’ and vanguards’ swords (grabbing the blade for more powerful thrusts) as well as switching which side of your halberd/etc. you attack with.

    This alternative attack side mechanism may be implanted for longswords despite of not having a different attack style, but it could enable the longsword to swap from going from two-handed to one handed without using a shield. Also the Zweihander happend to have an extra handle above the rainguard + crossguard.

    With the alternative weapon side mechanism for Zweihander, it could change grip instead of side. Gripping onto the extra handle above the crossguard.

    Zweihander.
    Normal grip: Most reach but less speed (Just make the alternative grip faster so this one will be slower)
    Alternative grip: Less reach but more speed?

    The alternative side mechanism wouldn’t work well for broadsword due to the fact that both the sides are identical to each other, and there is no really alternative grip or side difference for that. However with daggers you could have the alterantive from going from underhand to overhand grip?

    Overhand dagger would act as daggers used to be.
    Slash, overhead and stab.

    Underhand dagger would act as daggers are now.
    Slash, overhead-stab? and stab.

    As for weapons that does have two-sided edges it would serve great as an alternative for different damage element. However, for a halberd where there is a Huge axe head infront and a small spike on the back, IF the weapon side is reversed, then the spike should not do as much damage as the axe head would do although. Maybe it should make the swing faster? if this were implanted for amoung those weapons, for example halberds, then it would have the alternative to change between dealing a SwingBlunt damage that would be effective against Man-at arms and Archers, and PierceBlunt would serve better versus Vanguards and Knights.



  • @wildwulfy:

    if this were implanted for amoung those weapons, for example halberds, then it would have the alternative to change between dealing a SwingBlunt damage that would be effective against Man-at arms and Archers, and PierceBlunt would serve better versus Vanguards and Knights.

    I think this is pretty much the point. That is also how these weapons were used historically - if you wanted to pierce armor, you would use the spiked side because it concentrates the force of the swing in the point of the spike. It simply makes sense.

    Before I got my hands on Chivalry I played some War of the Roses, and there is already such a system in place - it was pretty mandatory because an axeblade or a billhook’s blade (that’s a weapon similar to a halberd) would hardly cut through heavy armor at all, usually just glancing off completely. So you really needed to switch to the spiked side.

    So, yeah, in Chivalry I would say turning your weapon around like this should be useful to react to your opponents armor type.

    I also like the idea of having different grips for the other (symmetrical) weapons like the Zweihänder. This could add a lot to the game. However, there must always be an eye an weapon balancing. If some weapons get too versatile they will take over other weapon’s niches.



  • The block suggestion is good, anyone who disagrees is insane or thinks the parry system in it’s current form takes any skill(it does not).



  • Many people who does not fight with shield are often claiming that shields are slightly broken, I agree with that and I’d like to state there is no proper middle point for the shield. It can be annoying when you find someone being able to block forever, but the shield is then again very glitchy and can be exploited sometimes. Once the developers get everything settled, making shields do what they are suppose to, except for that it will have some down sides.

    Though the idea about nerfing isn’t meant to make it so bad that its useless, there should be a future for the shields too! The “Quick-block” mechanism is a good way to encourage players to time their blocks well to be rewarded instead of going instant hold block forever till they hear the sound of their opponents weapon slamming into their shield. Although that the quick-attack mechanism is meant to give shield-users a counter-attack ability, it should still not be as fast as the no shield counter-attack.

    Also when I stated some few suggestions of what to do with shields, I did not state those suggestions because I think they are annoying or upsetting, just thought it would be cool to add some more depht into it.

    Don,
    I agree with you at some point about having some weapons having an advantage over some other classes, right now it seems like blunt is the best way to deal most damage, although the weapon damage is one of many factors that really decides which weapon is best for what. Although the idea about having some weapons specificly good for taking out one class, and then being worse versus another is something that would be hard to accept for the players, the game kinda needs to have a fine balance between each weapon so that they might fight any of the classes depending on skills.
    I also wish SwingBlunt and PierceBlunt would have a more advanced coding than what they already do! perhaps add a SwingPierce if that’s even possible? Which one of these weapons would do most damage to a plate armoured knight? Lets say we got two types of maul, one has a flat edge and the other has a huge spike on it. which one of those two would deal most damage?



  • @wildwulfy:

    Which one of these weapons would do most damage to a plate armoured knight? Lets say we got two types of maul, one has a flat edge and the other has a huge spike on it. which one of those two would deal most damage?

    Oh wow Wulfy I really cant give you an answer to that. While blunt and piercing weapons are generally much more effective against armor, especially plate, than cutting weapons are, it is a pretty far stretch to say this weapon should do more damage than that weapon. So many factors like how hard you hit, where you hit, armor quality, movement of your target… and there was so much more to medieval combat! Grappling, pulling, aiming for weak points, disarming, pinning, tripping, blinding… for example, this is why the thing on the backside of the halberd is more of a hook than a spike. You can use it to pierce armor, but often you would try to grab your opponent with it and get him out of balance. Halberds are mean weapons because if they stab you and you deflect the blow, the weapon’s head is now behind you! Your opponent can now pull the weapon back and do some really mean things with the hook. But I’m getting off track.

    So, in general, those piercing spikes are not that huge - if they punctuate the armor, the resulting wound would not be that huge so the strike itself may not cause that much damage (in Chivalry, you cant do these other mean things like ramming the spike in the armor and then pull). Blunt weapons however cause blunt trauma if the force of the impact is great enough which does not even need to break your armor since it can break your bones below it. It can also dent the armor, severely limiting the wearers ability to move - which would not apply to any class but Knight because everyone else’s armor is flexible. So from a gameplay point of view, I guess it is fair enough to say that blunt can be the most effective type against armor.

    Among the weapons that are currently in-game I’d say the Halberd and the Pollaxe would be the best at piercing plate armor because not only do they have some weight but since their shaft is so long the weapon head is accelerated much more than it would be with a shorter weapon, thus travels much faster and hits with greater force. Ironically, the maul wouldn’t be suited very well for that task because nobody could accelerate a hammer that great that much (and on top of that keep balance - try swinging around a significantly smaller sledgehammer). Medieval warhammers were hardly any larger than the Pollaxe, but since this is a game, we don’t have too be to picky. Something the size of a maul would certainly not be any deadlier with spikes on top.

    So I wrote two paragraphs that probably didn’t help at all. Since reality and game are too far apart in this regard, I say just pick either pierce or blunt and make it the to go type against armor. I think the main problem is that if you have two possible types of damage output, one is good against armor and one isn’t… you’re obviously going to pick the first one. Because the same damage type can’t be worse against less armor, can it?
    Well yes, actually it can. Cutting weapons are probably the most deadly thing to a lightly armored person because they have the potential to cause great and fatal wounds, much more so then piercing weapons because those need to concentrate their energy on a very small area, causing smaller wounds. This is why sabers were so popular in eastern cultures and in post-medieval Europe - their curved blades make them glide along the body, causing large and deep cuts. It’s still not absolutely realistic, but it would make at least some sense to give cutting weapons bonus damage against light armor. This would also be a reason to use the various parts of your weapon instead of sticking to one. But… do we really want that? Because that could seriously wreck weapon- and class balance…

    Man, I got to think some more about this.


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