Vanguard tweak - hear me out



  • I am well aware no one wants to discuss the idea of any nerfs to vanguards, but hear out my idea first before you get red in the face please :D

    Alright, so what is the strength of the vanguard? He is an armored melee class, with the longest reaching weapons in the game, able to dole out incredibly high damage at far distance, with less effort than other melee classes (due to the reach). A smart vanguard can come up on groups of enemies, and helicopter blade the lot of them down.

    Now here is the thing, how many of you have gotten face to face with a vanguard, yet he still chops you down at point blank with his polearm or what not? It is a bit senseless, because as we all know, if you are inches from a person with a polearm, his blade physically cannot touch you. The only thing that would make contact with you would be the wooden pole, or his sword hilt.

    Vanguards are a ranged melee class. They are not meant to be strong toe to toe, they are meant to control the battle by keeping their enemies at the range of their weapons, and suffer for it if they allow someone to get in close.

    For the TLDR people, here is my suggestion in short.

    Increase the damage that a vanguard deals at X range from his standing position. If a vanguard strikes you from 4-5 feet away or whatever the length of the weapon is, and nails you with the blade head/tip, it should do MAXIMUM damage.

    Decrease the damage a vanguard deals at Y range by half. If any class manages to block/parry and avoid your swings, and gets in your dead zone, then you did not do your job as a vanguard, and you need to kick them away, or switch to your sidearm. It is reasonable to argue that getting hit by a staff or sword hilt at point blank range will still hurt some, but it should not be anywhere along the same as getting hit by the end of the weapon.

    Alright commence the insults :*( I just feel with this type of tweak, it would reward the skilled vanguards, while weeding out the less skilled ones.



  • Old suggestion, much discussed and generally favoured.

    The only issue I can see is that this is a polearm nerf, not a vanguard nerf.

    Logically this would apply to things like the poleaxe and Maul and such too. That would be a bad thing.

    Also, this won’t effect the vanguard swords though to me they are well balanced as is.

    Also here is how a TL;DR works:

    Max damage at the tip of the weapon/Reduced damage with the shaft.



  • You are 100% right. But only with pole weapons, not the swords.



  • 1 Man at arms dodge will destroy a vanguard



  • Why would that be the case? All it would take is a parry and kick, and if the MAA insists on getting in your face, you can always swap to your 2ndary weapon if you really can’t control the fight.

    Thats the whole point of my suggestion, good vanguards who know what they are doing and know how to keep melee at range will excel, while bad vanguards who just pardon the term, “derp swing” will realize spamming LMB without worrying about parrying or kicking will no longer be enough to score kills.

    A 50% damage reduction is really not that bad, so you have to hit the MaA a couple more times to drop him at close range, consider how much damage a MaA deals when he isn’t in your face. Zero. So vanguards would still come out on top.



  • @smokingbobs:

    1 Man at arms dodge will destroy a vanguard

    this.

    I am not even very good and as a man-at-arms I can destroy a vanguard one on one. Their swing is just too slow.



  • @gregcau:

    @smokingbobs:

    1 Man at arms dodge will destroy a vanguard

    this.

    I am not even very good and as a man-at-arms I can destroy a BAD vanguard one on one. Their swing is just too slow.

    fixed.



  • Good men-at-arms will pick apart the best vanguards in a one on one situation. There’s really no contest. The VG will be lucky to land a hit, especially if the MaA has a shield. That’s the entire role of the Man-at-Arms, to isolate enemy players and force them to fight on the MaA’s terms, which is dangerous for knights and deadly for VGs/archers. Every class has their role on the team - VGs provide heavy melee hits from a considerable distance so they can back up knights without putting themselves at much risk, but are destroyed if they’re isolated or in the open against archers.

    Making polearms ineffective up close isn’t going to stop you from being slashspammed to death by low rank greatsword users, it’ll just throw off the competitive balance of the game.



  • My question to you then is, if they were able to release the statistics of kills per class, and which class is consistently the highest in kill count across the board, would it surprise you if it turned out to be vanguards by and large? Would that ring competitively balanced to you? :o Because if the game is balanced for 1v1 fighting as it currently is, that’s fine, but the landslide majority of players don’t play 1v1 duel mode.



  • The game is not balanced for 1v1 fighting, or the Man-at-Arms would be wholly overpowered. The game is balanced for organized team play.

    If they were able to release the statistics of every class, I estimate Vanguard would have the most kills, the most assists, and the most deaths. Man-at-Arms would have the best Kill/Death ratio with the most offensive objective points, Archer the best Assist/Death ratio, and Knights the middle for K/D/A with the most defensive objective points. Vanguards would have the worst Kill+Assist per death ratio, and the most team damage dealt.



  • @SlyGoat:

    The game is not balanced for 1v1 fighting, or the Man-at-Arms would be wholly overpowered. The game is balanced for organized team play.

    If they were able to release the statistics of every class, I estimate Vanguard would have the most kills, the most assists, and the most deaths. Man-at-Arms would have the best Kill/Death ratio with the most offensive objective points, Archer the best Assist/Death ratio, and Knights the middle for K/D/A with the most defensive objective points. Vanguards would have the worst Kill+Assist per death ratio, and the most team damage dealt.

    But because its a new game and most people are noobs so they run into the vanguard swing - not sure that would mean anything.

    Personally I think the knight is the most powerful class.


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