A Modest plea from a MaA



  • So I got this game recently and it’s pretty sick. Only about 20 hours in but I’m loving it, especially the Man at Arms class. Kind of high risk, but potentially high reward. Trades health for the ability to dodge, and has short, moderate damage weapons that are relatively fast. I’ve done a lot of dueling and am getting down how to play against every class/weapon loadout. Utilize strafing to get around the enemy and attack where they aren’t blocking. It can be tough since I get 1-2 shotted whereas it takes 3-6 hits to kill vans and knights, but that’s how the class is. I get to dodge, parry, and sprint to make sure I don’t get it. So my problem isn’t trying to kill the enemy players… It’s trying not to get killed by my teamates.

    I’m all for friendly fire, quite frankly if this game didn’t have it I think it wouldn’t be nearly as fun/realistic. Even with tons of newbs rolling knights and vans and lmbing in nice, wide, reckless team massacreing arcs the kill feed isn’t usually overwhelmed with teamkilling, which is actually pretty surprising for how this game’s mechanics are. Occasionally you get hit though, and it’s annoying as FK. Normally when I’m a van or knight I’ll just walk it off and continue fighting, because I’m beefy and idgaf, but on MaA it’s much different… On an MaA if you get hit - most likely by a big 2h weapon that the guy next to you is lmb comboing - it cuts your survivability in half. Eating just the tip of 1 stroke of a friendly 2h weapon can effectively remove me, as a MaA, from battle for minutes, for fear of someone on who’s actually swinging to kill me connecting with my frail body and 1 shotting me.

    I know I’m playing MaA, so I try to play accordingly. I don’t run in like the knights and vans; I try to pick my fights intelligently (usually to 1v1s), flank, and utilize my mobility to disengage/reset/control the pace of the fight. Not only is this far more difficult to do than when playing a knight or van, as I can’t fight anywhere/anyone I want like they can, but even when I do my job and isolate someone a frenzied ally knight or van ALWAYS gets excited from the smell of blood and runs in to try to finish my battle. I either have to stick around to get the kill, but risk getting obliterated by my team, or disengage and let them try to finish it. I don’t want to have a score of 0-0 at the end of the match because of the playing like the latter, so I usually take my chances. And usually I get tk’d or brought at least to half health.

    I know friendly fire seems to be a point of contention for this game, but I’m arguing specifically as an MaA. To keep it simple: knights are tanky and have pretty good range so getting hit in the middle of a fight by a teammate either isn’t a big deal or doesn’t happen often. Vanguards, although not quite as tanky, have huge reach and don’t have to be close to anyone to pick up kills. They can safely sit back and not get wrecked by their own team, but still play effectively. MaA are another story though. Not only are their bodies constructed of paper mache, they also have to be standing literally right next to their target to do damage due to the tiny reach of their weapons. If you’re within weapons distance of an enemy as an MaA, there’s a very good chance you’re also directly in the line of fire of an ally. And if that’s the case then chances are you’re dead or very near to it.

    Sorry for the lengthy post, but that’s my rant. My only solution for this problem that I can think of is reduce friendly fire damage for MaA’s to like 75% (that’s a number purely for example, the true % would have to be worked out). That way if I get hit by a teammate I’m not at half health and can still take 2 shots from an enemy.

    TL;DR: WTB patch that makes knights unable to combo lmb.



  • Perhaps you should play 20 hours as a knight before making such a request?



  • @acrh2:

    Perhaps you should play 20 hours as a knight before making such a request?

    What would I gain from that? Before I picked up MaA I played mainly knight and vanguard. I don’t have as much experience with them but I know how they’re played. If played well either class can be an amazing asset to the team. However in a public match they are RARELY played well, that became evident within the first few hours of playing. And when they’re played poorly, primarily the way I described in my first post, a lot of tking occurs. I don’t see how playing them more would incline me to believe that MaA aren’t significantly more affected by friendly fire.

    I know that I’m a noob and have a lot to learn, but that’s not a good reason for a meaningless, critical reply. Perhaps you should elaborate more and not make such vague, unhelpful suggestions.



  • A big issue with FF is that people on the receiving end aren’t aware of their LMB mashing teammates heading their way during a fight… It’s also the person LMB mashing around allies that should know better than to wildly swing and hurting their team. You can’t control bad players, so just be on the lookout for baddies on your team coming your way!

    I don’t play any one class way more than others… I change it up all the time… If MAA isn’t working for me in a game, I swap to another class/loadout…



  • Welcome!

    Lots of threads about people unhappy with the LMB mashing… But its part of the game, and as mentioned above its not the LMB mashing that is the problem, its the bad player who wades into combat and starts mashing LMB while his comrades are next to him.



  • @Pariah:

    @acrh2:

    Perhaps you should play 20 hours as a knight before making such a request?

    What would I gain from that? Before I picked up MaA I played mainly knight and vanguard. I don’t have as much experience with them but I know how they’re played. If played well either class can be an amazing asset to the team. However in a public match they are RARELY played well, that became evident within the first few hours of playing. And when they’re played poorly, primarily the way I described in my first post, a lot of tking occurs. I don’t see how playing them more would incline me to believe that MaA aren’t significantly more affected by friendly fire.

    I know that I’m a noob and have a lot to learn, but that’s not a good reason for a meaningless, critical reply. Perhaps you should elaborate more and not make such vague, unhelpful suggestions.

    Would playing with knights make you realize that combos are very important to this combat? Disabling combos would probably devastate a class. I hope we can agree with that. That was the meaning of the post. Did you think that knights weren’t using combos, and therefore it wasn’t going to hit them hard to remove combos?

    But maybe you should have suggested reduced damage from knight friendly hits (which already works for all the classes.) I don’t feel that way at all. There’s a balance issue for how much friendly fire damage one should get. Knights deal a lot of damage to enemies, reduced friendly damage to teammates - it feels fairly balanced to me.



  • It does really really suck. This happens to me all the time as MAA. I think your best bet might just be to disengage and find a different fight. Hunt down some archers or flank someone. You are the fastest class in the game after all.

    I think that the slash spamming is something that will be difficult to find a good solution for. FF is definitely needed in this game. Without it the spam would get even more out of control.



  • Having default LMB as stab would help, sure it can be rebinded but hopefully some of the newer players will keep it as default, resulting in less TK/LMB spamming.



  • @NoMilLord:

    Having default LMB as stab would help, sure it can be rebinded but hopefully some of the newer players will keep it as default, resulting in less TK/LMB spamming.

    That might “help” cut down on the TKing until the new players realize that slashing (with whatever key you suggest binding it to) is the easiest strike to land and then proceed to mash it anyways.



  • @acrh2:

    @Pariah:

    @acrh2:

    Perhaps you should play 20 hours as a knight before making such a request?

    What would I gain from that? Before I picked up MaA I played mainly knight and vanguard. I don’t have as much experience with them but I know how they’re played. If played well either class can be an amazing asset to the team. However in a public match they are RARELY played well, that became evident within the first few hours of playing. And when they’re played poorly, primarily the way I described in my first post, a lot of tking occurs. I don’t see how playing them more would incline me to believe that MaA aren’t significantly more affected by friendly fire.

    I know that I’m a noob and have a lot to learn, but that’s not a good reason for a meaningless, critical reply. Perhaps you should elaborate more and not make such vague, unhelpful suggestions.

    Would playing with knights make you realize that combos are very important to this combat? Disabling combos would probably devastate a class. I hope we can agree with that. That was the meaning of the post. Did you think that knights weren’t using combos, and therefore it wasn’t going to hit them hard to remove combos?

    But maybe you should have suggested reduced damage from knight friendly hits (which already works for all the classes.) I don’t feel that way at all. There’s a balance issue for how much friendly fire damage one should get. Knights deal a lot of damage to enemies, reduced friendly damage to teammates - it feels fairly balanced to me.

    I’ve played knight and I’ve played a ton of MaA; i understand the value of combos in this game. I don’t believe I stated anywhere that combos should be removed or that they aren’t critical to the melee classes. My complaint isn’t about combos, or even lmb spamming.

    As many have mentioned lmb spamming is a problem. I understand it’s existence as spamming slash is what most new players, or simply bad players, will do. Hell even I was an lmb spammer not long ago. My complaint, however, is that MaA’s are by FAR the most vulnerable to friendly fire, and, not only are they the most vulnerable, but they’re also the class that friendly fire affects the most because of their low health. That’s the problem I have. Even when I play the MaA role correctly I STILL get tk’d.



  • 3 hits with a dane axe will kill a knight. One handed weapons deal incredibly good damage considering their speed, and in the case of the dane axe; with comparable reach to some 2 handers, there is almost no downside.

    Keep in mind though, knights do regenerate. I think I even played against you. If you land a hit, but keep your distance after for a bit while I just walk around (not sprinting) it’s because I’m letting myself heal up. So it may seem to you like it’s 6 hits.



  • I’m only ‘new’ myself, but at 30 odd hours in, I don’t know how many times I’ve seen MaA’s (granted, probably either new or poor players) wade into the middle of a melee. It would seem to me that in a team game, MaA should be flitting around the outskirts of the melee, preferably to the flanks/rear of the opposition, and diving in for quick hits when the opportunity arises, alternatively, they are ideally suited to operate in those areas where swining around big 2 handed weapons is near impossible.

    As a general rule, if you rush in where big blades are swinging around, you are going to get hit, regardless of what you are.



  • I find I get teamkilled the most when I’m an archer, because I favor the shortbow and end up meleeing a lot of enemies who close the small gap provided by being at shortbow range. Without the enhanced mobility and dodge of the MaA, it can be harder to avoid my teammates coming to “help” than it is to avoid my enemy.

    As someone who’s played almost 300 hours + time in the alpha, I’d say I have at least 120 hours as MaA (I play every class, but MaA is somewhat favored) and very rarely die to my teammates - because I very rarely fight where they’re even capable of hitting me. If I’m fighting with a teammate I’ll just my mobility to circle around and hit the enemy from the other side, which is common sense - but there are also other things to think about. For example - when fighting 2v1, do not facehug. If you facehug in a 2v1 you’re just setting yourself up to get hit by your teammate as he’s stabbing through the enemy. Never fight side by side with a teammate. I know it looks good in the movies, but in Chivalry it just inconveniences both of you and usually leads to friendly fire. This really applies to any class, but the Man-at-Arms is the best at not fighting side by side, because he can get around players much easier. A good Man-at-Arms will simply take less hits than other players, from both teammates and enemies, because of smart positioning and knowing he can’t afford the damage. Also, never be overly aggressive when you have the advantage. Keep pressure on the defending player, but remember the odds are hugely in your favor - and when you’re ahead in anything is when you want to take the least risks. If your teammate is being overly aggressive, sit back and play more patiently than usual, only getting a hit in if you know your teammate won’t be able to hit you in return. If he dies because you didn’t help, just remember he probably would’ve killed you for the kill anyway, so it’s not like you’re letting him down.

    While I understand your frustration, remember that friendly fire is a two-way street. Often your teammate was being reckless and hit you when he was trying to “help” (or when he was just greedily going for a kill), but perhaps just as often the player being hit is at fault. It’s always up to the better player to make the decision not to friendly fire/put himself in the way of friendly fire, because less experienced players will never think about the game like that until they improve - not only do we live in an age of twitchy precision-based FPS where it’s often pretty hard to shoot a teammate when aiming at an enemy, the majority of FPS gamers don’t play with friendly fire anyway. So it’s up to you to make the decision to not get hit.

    Obviously if a teammate comes up behind you and just slashes through you for a kill, there’s little you could’ve done - but Chivalry is a lot like driving a car, you have to be fully aware of everyone around you and not tunnel vision on the guy directly in front, so there’s still that. If you don’t watch your back it’ll more often be an enemy killing you from behind than a teammate anyway; you just remember the friendly fire incidents more vividly because they’re more annoying.


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