Is A Lookdown Overhead Legit?



  • I want to start this poll to just simply see what the community think in general about lookdown overheads (just those, not horizontal turns or anything else…).

    Lookdown overheads (in case you aren’t aware) are when someone uses an overhead attack and looks straight down to speed up swing, not wind up. They still have wind up time, but this reduces the amount of time it takes for the weapon to actually connect during the swing. These attacks are usually done with 2 handed weapons.



  • Yes.

    I fell for it maybe the first 2 or 3 times that I saw someone try that on me, but its not very hard to counter once you are familiar with it.



  • Considering they can’t see anymore I don’t see an issue. I always just abstracted it as putting your entire body into the swing.

    Though I don’t know how long the recovery time is after hitting the ground versus completing the swing.



  • I’ve not really found it an issue or considered it an exploit.

    I don’t really see it as being any different to turning your body to make a LMB swing hit sooner- you have to take your eyes off the enemy to do it and isn’t a guaranteed hit.

    Overheads are generally harder to land anyway, so doing it with your eyes off the enemy adds even more risk, especially if he dodges around you.



  • There’s a lot of “dishonorable” things in this game that are “legit,” but they’re not going anywhere and you just have to deal with it. Just keep hoping for a brighter future and that someday Torn Banner will come up with things that will stop “abusive” tactics and tricks.



  • Personally, I don’t use them. I think any “extreme” case of swing manipulation is, in fact, “dishonorable”… Although, I do see how these things are part of the game’s mechanics and cannot be changed really. I think i have pretty much accepted the fact these attack types aren’t going anywhere and I need to learn how to counter them.

    I really appreciate the feedback about this stuff… It’s good to know others’ opinions about such matters :)



  • I don’t have too much trouble defending against them, unless they look completely down at exactly the right moment, and get very close to me; and even then… it’s only a serious issue with certain weapons. In fact, slower weapons tend to be trickier because it messes with learned timings and the animations don’t really flow well using this tactic.

    Most of the game’s issues can be attributed to clunky animations. Not to be offensive to the developers, I love the game. I know animations are probably the hardest element to get right.



  • The animations are weird, but they have a certain feel to them that I don’t think I would want to change… Chivalry definatly has a good feel to it… Changing things too much would possibly be bad…



  • Firstly, your poll has two options that mean the same thing.

    Secondly, this is not so much an “opinion” situation as it is a “yeah that’s broken as hell” situation because anyone who can pull this off consistently (myself and some people on dueling servers) gets a near instant hit with a 2h power weapon.

    The attack can only be blocked by shear guesswork as it falls outside human reaction time. So yeah, just because its a slightly more challenging maneuver to pull off than your average overhead doesn’t mean its not breaking game mechanics.

    @UnknownXV:

    I don’t have too much trouble defending against them, unless they look completely down at exactly the right moment, and get very close to me; and even then… it’s only a serious issue with certain weapons. In fact, slower weapons tend to be trickier because it messes with learned timings and the animations don’t really flow well using this tactic.

    Most of the game’s issues can be attributed to clunky animations. Not to be offensive to the developers, I love the game. I know animations are probably the hardest element to get right.

    You’re pretty good at bluffing, I’ll give you that. If you’re blocking an opponent using this technique rather than dodging then he’s not doing something right or you have 20ms ping all the time. It’d be very easy to make a video proving that this is nearly unblockable. Even if it wasn’t unblockable, its unbalanced. Making a weapon land almost 100% faster for what? A slight reduction in accuracy?



  • My problem with it is when you hit the ground with your attack, you only suffer a brief deflection during which time you can freely parry - it’s actually better to hit the ground than to let your attack finish and go into recovery. IMO if you look straight down to overhead and hit the ground as a result, you should be stunned as if you were kicked.



  • Makes the game more indept, otherwise it would just be block and attack.That’s how you play during your first 20 hours. This is what makes the game so interesting, always more tactics to learn and use.

    It’s like saying every mechanic on this page is bad: http://chivalry.wikia.com/wiki/Strategy
    If it’s like that, then we should just remove all other type of attacks and just LMB :D



  • I think there are different levels in exploiting this. I met a guy yesterday who -I assume- used some macro or something when doing an overhead attack with a halberd vanguard. At the moment he winded up the attack he was already facing to the ground, like he was ducking. There was no transition between the two stages, it was instant. It was completetly impossible for me to block or parry it and I guess for others as well because he became second on the scoreboard within a few minutes of joining which wasn’t very easy on that server as there were lots of guys from 3-4 clans online. Anyone going against him in this situation was mostly dead in a second. I do not like this kind of play style. Using the lookdown overhead manually with the mouse is acceptable for me because mostly that can be tracked and they are within reaction time but every time going around and insta killing everyone with some macro or constantly dragging down the mouse like crazy is not. I think the mouse movement should be restricted somehow during this attack or something should be done to prevent these kind of behaviour. This will just turn worse when more and more guys found this as an advantage.



  • @kKNd:

    I think there are different levels in exploiting this. I met a guy yesterday who -I assume- used some macro or something when doing an overhead attack with a halberd vanguard. At the moment he winded up the attack he was already facing to the ground, like he was ducking. There was no transition between the two stages, it was instant. It was completetly impossible for me to block or parry it and I guess for others as well because he became second on the scoreboard within a few minutes of joining which wasn’t very easy on that server as there were lots of guys from 3-4 clans online. Anyone going against him in this situation was mostly dead in a second. I do not like this kind of play style. Using the lookdown overhead manually with the mouse is acceptable for me because mostly that can be tracked and they are within reaction time but every time going around and insta killing everyone with some macro or constantly dragging down the mouse like crazy is not. I think the mouse movement should be restricted somehow during this attack or something should be done to prevent these kind of behaviour. This will just turn worse when more and more guys found this as an advantage.

    Speeding up overheads aren’t all powerful, you can’t see anything when you do it and you lose alot of range. When you block a speeded up overhead it’s easier to block with shield as well as you aim for the crouch.



  • @Andrew:

    Speeding up overheads aren’t all powerful, you can’t see anything when you do it and you lose alot of range. When you block a speeded up overhead it’s easier to block with shield as well as you aim for the crouch.

    Except when the guy is playing in 3rd person view and you are against him with a weaker class, archer or mma. You just get oneshotted in an instant. I experienced it in first hand and saw my teammates getting chopped as well. I admit I am not a good player, but I can time my blocks and parries properly most of the times. There was nothing I could do against this guy though.
    As I have said, I am not entirely against this trick, but it is annyoing when used this way, at least the ducking should be restricted or dunno. Feels too out of place and powerful to me.



  • @kKNd:

    @Andrew:

    Speeding up overheads aren’t all powerful, you can’t see anything when you do it and you lose alot of range. When you block a speeded up overhead it’s easier to block with shield as well as you aim for the crouch.

    Except when the guy is playing in 3rd person view and you are against him with a weaker class, archer or mma. You just get oneshotted in an instant. I experienced it in first hand and saw my teammates getting chopped as well. I admit I am not a good player, but I can time my blocks and parries properly most of the times. There was nothing I could do against this guy though.
    As I have said, I am not entirely against this trick, but it is annyoing when used this way, at least the ducking should be restricted or dunno. Feels too out of place and powerful to me.

    Improve your reflexes and timing then you can even block even these insane speeds. There is alot more to blocking than blocking when you see the enemy windup.
    The weaker classes are best if you know what you are doing and don’t mess up, as you have so low health. You’ll survive 1 hit of mostly every weapon. (Halberd included)



  • @SlyGoat:

    My problem with it is when you hit the ground with your attack, you only suffer a brief deflection during which time you can freely parry - it’s actually better to hit the ground than to let your attack finish and go into recovery. IMO if you look straight down to overhead and hit the ground as a result, you should be stunned as if you were kicked.

    This seems to be the best way to fix it. If you slam a sledge or an axe into the ground with all your strength. No matter how strong or fast you are you won’t be able to swing it again in the very next instant.



  • Its complitly insane if people start adding feints to their exploited overheads.
    You basicly have to block before their windup is over, but they can feint up to the last frame,
    considering that an overhead is the strongest attack in game and its done with the largest and most reaching weapons makes this not counterable and incredible strong.
    Since they hit the ground , they recover faster, meaning you should never not use an downlookoverhead, its just a free move , no one is gone punish you for it.
    Sadly that is the state of the game, and no these people dont ever miss, why should they, then their target only has the smallest amount of time to evade while the game is very gernous with the hit box.

    If its not removed, we at least need a better animation (to see feints) and an increase of overhead windnup by 0.4sec for 2hander. THEN WEAPONS ,THAT CAN KILL IN ONE SHOT ,GO BEYOND THE ATTACKSPEED OF DAGGERS THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG



  • Regardless of what you do with the attack, it can not be made faster than the windup time of the weapon, so you do have time to block. This means that a lot of these tricks reach the limit of windup time. While this includes the look down and crouch overhead, it also occurs with other attacks like close range stabs and well positioned side swings.

    The point is that this thread should not be asking whether this one particular instance of ending windup inside your opponent is legitimate, but whether windup ending within the opponents hitbox is legitimate at all. No matter what, you’re not going to reliably block a feinter who knows how to end the windup animation with the weapon tip inside the opponent. This downward looking overhead is just another aspect of that.



  • Legit? Yes
    Cheap and lame tactic that requires no skill? Yes



  • @Metrocop:

    Cheap and lame tactic that requires no skill? Yes

    Good players can and do block this so not sure what your point is?
    Also it requires more skill then a standard overhead, maybe you can add some insight to why you find this cheap and lame??

    Also never heard people bitching about this ingame, the halbard is another story though.


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