Get medieval on the people



  • First of all I have been reading the stuff you guys have wrote but not all of it cause it is a lot so some of this ideas you may have already explained or thought about but i want to make it my way:

    Defenses on the walls:
    Like in middle ages, in the game, i have seen some castles to defend so for the defense it will be good to have some usual defenses:
    Rocks: When you are in the top of the wall it could be there some kind of bucket with stones, when you press some key it will give you a rock to throw to smash some carefree heads.
    Boling oil or water: Above the gate the enemy needs to destroy it could be a big cauldron ready to be drop down (once in a game) to cook alive some enemies inside their armours.

    Realistic (sadic) attacks to villages:
    I don´t really know the rules about the attacks to villages but, in the videos, i saw about burning hoses and killing peasant so what i want to bring here is: if we are gonna be cruel lets be cruel all the way.
    Heads on pikes: Take a peasant to a pike (ready for it somewhere in the village) activate the animation and enjoy cutting his head off and nail it in a pike.
    Hanged bodies: Take a peasant to a tree (ready for it somewhere in the village) activate the animation and enjoy letting the guy hanged in a branch.
    With a burning village full with heads on pikes and hanged bodies you will get a lovely usual village from the twelve century just before a massacre.

    Thanks for the game.



  • @Grangoko:

    First of all I have been reading the stuff you guys have wrote but not all of it cause it is a lot so some of this ideas you may have already explained or thought about but i want to make it my way:

    Defenses on the walls:
    Like in middle ages, in the game, i have seen some castles to defend so for the defense it will be good to have some usual defenses:
    Rocks: When you are in the top of the wall it could be there some kind of bucket with stones, when you press some key it will give you a rock to throw to smash some carefree heads.
    Boling oil or water: Above the gate the enemy needs to destroy it could be a big cauldron ready to be drop down (once in a game) to cook alive some enemies inside their armours.

    Realistic (sadic) attacks to villages:
    I don´t really know the rules about the attacks to villages but, in the videos, i saw about burning hoses and killing peasant so what i want to bring here is: if we are gonna be cruel lets be cruel all the way.
    Heads on pikes: Take a peasant to a pike (ready for it somewhere in the village) activate the animation and enjoy cutting his head off and nail it in a pike.
    Hanged bodies: Take a peasant to a tree (ready for it somewhere in the village) activate the animation and enjoy letting the guy hanged in a branch.
    With a burning village full with heads on pikes and hanged bodies you will get a lovely usual village from the twelve century just before a massacre.

    Thanks for the game.

    IMO the improvements to castle sieges are cool but wouldn’t they destroy some of the balance?
    And there’s a problem with those village massacres. If you would like to torture some of the peasants you have to spend time on it. And when you do that, enemy can get advantage because he’s doing what he should. Anyway it should work if the objective was “Destroy the village” and there was a limit of destruction and violence you have to do to win.



  • I haven´t play AOC so i dont know how they do that but, probably, with archers on the walls (with a great view and with places to protect themselves in the battlement) the balance is already broken. If you want to equilibrate things maybe the attackers can have some siege crossbows.

    As I said I don´t know the rules of the attacks to the villages but if you got time to burn the whole place you probably got time to hang some people just for fun.



  • @Grangoko:

    Realistic (sadic) attacks to villages:
    I don´t really know the rules about the attacks to villages but, in the videos, i saw about burning hoses and killing peasant so what i want to bring here is: if we are gonna be cruel lets be cruel all the way.
    Heads on pikes: Take a peasant to a pike (ready for it somewhere in the village) activate the animation and enjoy cutting his head off and nail it in a pike.
    Hanged bodies: Take a peasant to a tree (ready for it somewhere in the village) activate the animation and enjoy letting the guy hanged in a branch.
    With a burning village full with heads on pikes and hanged bodies you will get a lovely usual village from the twelve century just before a massacre.

    Quite disturbing how no one has remarked that this is one sick motherfucker. Exchanging abstract and arbitrary depictions of conquest (such as raising a flag) by something with a more authentic feel (such as burning down houses and looting) is one thing. Adding unnecessary acts of pure cruelty to appeal to the morbidly sadistic is quite another.



  • Quite disturbing your hypocrisy, I`m gonna quote the video What is chivalry? recently posted in the website: “… and when those fights, those epic fights ends with a decapitacion or a lymph flying off that´s when is truly rewarding and you feel the glory of a medieval battlefield…” So don´t fool yourself this game has intrinsically a lot of cruelness just to make you feel like in middle ages.

    Those cruel acts that I`m talking about dont appeal to the morbidly sadistic more than cutting and blowing off heads and arms. I just brought those ideas out just to make the game more inmersive and realistic cause, as I said, a burning village full with heads on pikes and hanged bodies it was the usual after the massacres you are proposing with the game.

    And of course nobody is being hurt! I´m not asking for an animation to rape womans o kill childs c´mon! It´s just to “feel the glory of a medival battlefield”.

    PD: Indeed I´m a sick motherfucker but please don´t insult me cause I think it´s against the rules of the forum and also cause I didn´t say anything to you.



  • @Grangoko:

    Quite disturbing your hypocrisy, I`m gonna quote the video What is chivalry? recently posted in the website: “… and when those fights, those epic fights ends with a decapitacion or a lymph flying off that´s when is truly rewarding and you feel the glory of a medieval battlefield…” So don´t fool yourself this game has intrinsically a lot of cruelness just to make you feel like in middle ages.

    Those cruel acts that I`m talking about dont appeal to the morbidly sadistic more than cutting and blowing off heads and arms. I just brought those ideas out just to make the game more inmersive and realistic cause, as I said, a burning village full with heads on pikes and hanged bodies it was the usual after the massacres you are proposing with the game.

    And of course nobody is being hurt! I´m not asking for an animation to rape womans o kill childs c´mon! It´s just to “feel the glory of a medival battlefield”.

    You must be mad not to see the difference between chopping off the limb of a player and mutilating a peasant. The second one is defenceless, which is a big difference. When you defeat a player, you get a kick because your brain recognises achievement and rewards you. A good video game reinforces that by giving you consistent and unambiguous feedback every time you achieve something, which you can quickly learn to associate with achievement. That can be sparkles, flashes, large numbers popping up or, indeed, blood and gore.

    Blood and gore carry strong symbolism for the defeat of your opponent, and as such serve as excellent reinforcing factors for psychological reward. This means that the blood and gore of an opponent, brought down after a long and tough fight, can be enjoyed in a very different way than that of a defenceless peasant. Most players don’t enjoy chopping their opponents head off because of sadism (or at least I fucking hope they don’t), but rather because it indicates victory. In contrast, the mutilation of a defenceless peasant can only be enjoyed by a truly sadistic and cruel person, because there is no achievement in killing a person who doesn’t fight back.

    I actually don’t mind the presence of blood and gore at all. I’m not disturbed by seeing heads on spikes or whatever if it fits the atmosphere. I am, however, disturbed by people who actually want to put the heads on the spikes themselves after torturing a defenceless person. Even though it’s not real, the only reason you could possibly enjoy that is sadism in its purest. The act of hanging a virtual person from a virtual tree isn’t the problem here, it’s the fact that you want to simulate such a situation.



  • I don´t want to simulate that situation, it has been already simulated by this game: A medieval army attacking a village with players burning themselves villages and killing themselves peasants. What I want is to bring a little bit more of atmosphere, not tortouring anyfuckingbody, instead of just killing the peasant you take him to a tree or to a pike and by cliking or something he will appear hanged or his head nailed in a pike. I dont really expect an animation in which you, with your vitual hand take his head off and nailed it or an animation in which you take a rod put it in a branch and hang the guy.

    It is as impossible to have the hanged guys or the head on pikes as the burning village without the action of a players, and with the action of a player the player itself will feel inside a virtual medieval world which atmosphere he can change. And here will be a lot of symbolism cause when the defenders of the peasents look at the destroyed village with no survivors they will see what they could have avoided. Probably the next time they will fight strongly.

    I don´t even know why you accuse me of torturing and maul defenless peasants I didn´t say anything about torture, I don´t want to see a virtual peasant crying or screaming for his live even when I saw that included in the video I talked about. Again I´m just saying that will be good to have a realistic (and yes it´s kind of sadic but it was like that in the past) burning village to offer the players a really inmerssive game.



  • @Grangoko:

    I don´t want to simulate that situation, it has been already simulated by this game: A medieval army attacking a village with players burning themselves villages and killing themselves peasants. What I want is to bring a little bit more of atmosphere, not tortouring anyfuckingbody, instead of just killing the peasant you take him to a tree or to a pike and by cliking or something he will appear hanged or his head nailed in a pike. I dont really expect an animation in which you, with your vitual hand take his head off and nailed it or an animation in which you take a rod put it in a branch and hang the guy.

    It is as impossible to have the hanged guys or the head on pikes as the burning village without the action of a players, and with the action of a player the player itself will feel inside a virtual medieval world which atmosphere he can change. And here will be a lot of symbolism cause when the defenders of the peasents look at the destroyed village with no survivors they will see what they could have avoided. Probably the next time they will fight strongly.

    I don´t even know why you accuse me of torturing and maul defenless peasants I didn´t say anything about torture, I don´t want to see a virtual peasant crying or screaming for his live even when I saw that included in the video I talked about. Again I´m just saying that will be good to have a realistic (and yes it´s kind of sadic but it was like that in the past) burning village to offer the players a really inmerssive game.

    Alright then, perhaps I overreacted. But don’t blame me for assuming you would enjoy cruelty for cruelty’s sake if you state things like “if we are gonna be cruel lets be cruel all the way”, “…and enjoy cutting his head off and nail it in a pike” and “…and enjoy letting the guy hanged in a branch” and specifically mention sadism. Also, while you state in your last post that you’re not expecting an animation in which you decapitate a peasant and impale his head, that’s pretty much exactly what you were asking for in your OP.

    You make good points in your second paragraph. I’m not sure how much the ‘realism’ argument comes into play here though. I’m not an expert on the era, but I would be surprised if massacring the population of a conquered village would be the usual thing to do for an army. And even if it was, I doubt they would regularly do it in a way as ostentatively morbid as impaling the villagers’ heads on spikes.

    Even if it would indeed be realistic, I still dislike the suggestion. As I said before, exchanging an abstract depiction of conquest such as raising a flag by a more authentically-feeling alternative such as looting and murdering is one thing. Going all the way by including every possible cruelty you can think of is quite another, even if realism is what you care about. I don’t think we should pursue full realism here. Full realism would at least include rape, and I don’t think any of us want to see that in a game.

    I do apologise for being judgmental though.



  • With an animation I meant cut the head off (cause it is already in the game) but not nailing it and about the hanginh maybe see the bodie like moving a little bit and then die but I wasn´t asking for a whole animation of the entire act. The expresions I used were just a little bit of black humour if you take them serious it´s not my fault.

    About the era I can assure you that killing everybody, raping women, burn the whole place down and stole everything than can be packed was a normal thing at EVERYTIME in history, even now, just take a plane to Uganda and Sudan and you will probably see all of that. If you want history facts you can search for vikings, romans or mongols, you can find examples of war crimes almost in every human civilization. Also, again, please check the video What is Chivalry? 1:50 to 1:57 when he specifies that a medieval army will butcher everybody.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GnuCjue … _embedded#!

    So the same as before I´m not asking for raping women or killing childs or even craziest thing I´m just proposing a more dramatic and artistic way of killing the peasants than just butch them.



  • Again, even if your suggestion would be 100% realistic (I’m not going to argue on that because I’m not knowledgeable on the topic), I really don’t agree that it is necessary or desirable to go all the way in this matter. You draw the line at child murdering and rape, I include putting heads in stakes in the “not okay” zone.



  • Thou art one mean Mason swine, Grangoko. And I will gladly put your head on that voulge of mine if i meet you on battlefield >:-} herherherher



  • @Grangoko:

    probably, with archers on the walls (with a great view and with places to protect themselves in the battlement) the balance is already broken. If you want to equilibrate things maybe the attackers can have some siege crossbows.

    I think that longer spawn time for defenders solves the balance problem.



  • The only problem is that it shouldn’t be scripted . It is no problem to have it (the executions/tortures) even just like it was in AoC with few more visuals & animations - go in specific place , press & hold specific button , BUT you must be able to ‘‘pause’’ it at every stage & continue fighting .

    Only because someone dislike & don’t want it , doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be implemented , none force you to do it afterall . Do something else .

    Or maybe there will be different tasks on different maps , so choose/host server with specific mapcycle (+ it is good for the community & can become famous among the community & respected , if produce good maps (or if you prefer glory)) .

    To some people it helps to immerse & the middle ages weren’t so shyny afterall .
    It had its dark moments .

    Peasants wasn’t among the most respected people then .
    In recently expanded country as Agatha in some regions there might be rebellions or some to refuse to cooperate with paying taxes to the new ruler . If don’t punish them with hard hand their recent peasants & leave them to do whatever they want , resources & suplies drops (bad for nobles & the army) it also can be bad example for the rest . Something like destoying few villages & killing the whole population in the area or torturing & killing few to show to the rest power & scare the rest - keeping them alive & peacefull .

    So which is more humane for you :

    to kill few of them slowly , painfully & in especially brutal way ,including tortures & humiliations , or to kill everyone fast & less painfull (+ destroying the bulidings) ?

    Too much & strong rebels = grave danger for those who was above them .
    So probably it won’t be just Masons who will kill/torture yokels/yeomen , but also and the Agathian authority aswell .

    They have not much choice .

    We are community , it is normal different people to have differences in taste .
    It is nothing wrong , if your fellow player is enjoys pain & suffering more than you or in different way .

    Keep in mind that your scale for sadism might be not valid for other person - to some people decapitation/dismemberment or just few drops of blood can be sadism & hanging people or using spikes to be entirely not compared to the mentioned above .
    It’s relative .

    BTW I heard gore & blood effects can be turned on & off .



  • Crusades, circa 1200.
    Christian conscript soldiers, Warrior monks, volunteer knights, nobles and soldiers, when on a ‘crusade’ to free the holy land of the saracen occupation.
    What ISNT publicized is the fact they raped, murdered, pillaged just about everything in the way.
    They killed anyone and everything.
    Christian, jew, muslim, you name it, it got the treatment.
    So dont kid yourself to think that anyone is any different from anyone.
    If they can get away with it, or think they can, they will.
    I want to take this a step further.
    AVP, the new one, as a predator, you literally have the animation IN YOUR FACE, of separating skull and spine from a marine.
    I want to have the option of having an animation of splitting neck and head, then taking a crudely hewn pike, and placing a head upon it, like, on the spot.
    This could add a +moral to the attacking team, increasing defense/hit points by a small margin, say .5% per head. but no more than 5% bonus total, but also allow the defenders to ‘burn’ or take down the piked heads.
    Hanging takes more time, i dont really forsee that being an option.
    These are my opinions, but i REALLY want to see beheading if there are vikings in the future :)
    Hell we could just have putting bodies on pikes, like seen in the first diablo.



  • As to the main point, yes i believe that seige defences should have that improvised feels with the stones. As for the pilliging i have mixed feelings, on one hand i see the drive in the attacks and like the incorperation into the game with burning of houses and the slaying of the weak ( Muahahaha) but on the other hand i agree with the truths behind these attacks were always a dark tale but i dont not wish to see it further looked into in the game. Heads on pikes and such is just blood thirsty.

    I believe from what i have seen that the point is pushes quiet well in the gameplay and you do get a sence of dread to see the masons rise from the firey remains of a village. ( Through Strenght, Breeds Empire, Long Live The Masons)

    I do however think that cutting bits of a peasent is " Jolly Good Fun"



  • Dark tale?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged,_dr … _quartered

    Impalements of peasants?? woow that´s too much xD jajaja but you are right there is plenty of games with this kind of cruelness and brutal decoration, I dont know how many mmorpg I have seen with guys hanged, caged or tortured, I remember a quest in Wow in which you have to put heads in spikes to have revenge for the horde or something like that. In horror games it´s wierd the moment without seeing something like that, so its nothing new.

    I´m gonna clarify the way I think those virtual acts could be done faster and easier:
    First, it should be implemented an action (which you can stop at every moment) of grabbing peasants to prevent them to escape, then you take them with you to the tree or to the pike:
    -Tree: There is already a rope in it ready for hanging, you clik the action button there and PUFF, the guy is hanged, he is still moving a little bit cause he is dying (maybe if a defender comes he can cut the rope and save him).
    -Pikes: You take the pesant, put him squatting and execute him by decapitation and then PUFF, his head is in a pike for everybody to see it.

    PUFF is kind of instant xD



  • True , but my point was that sometimes , torturing of peasant/s is necessary .
    Angry mob can be a real disaster .
    Intentionally I said ‘‘angry mob’’ , using for example the GLA’s unit (C&C : Generals , really good game by the way) .

    I suggest only , because when crusaders can do what they want to everyone in the right situation , doesn’t mean that peasants are equally respected .

    Lowest classes in societies was never really very respected , even if it was claimed so .
    I guess human psyche haven’t changed so much .
    Yes , environment is different , but some fundamental aspects of the environment haven’t changed ,
    & environment , as you know , have big inflence upon behavior & psyche of the individum .

    Won’t comment adding of bonuses for completing of tasks … .


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