An in-depth look at Flinching



  • A lot of threads have been popping up lately about the flinch mechanic being broken, and today I made a short video replicating how these non flinches are occuring in almost all cases.

    [youtubehd:3op70unq]OD6R-5Q4D5Y[/youtubehd:3op70unq]

    An experienced user with good timing can force an easy hit trade using this.



  • This.



  • It doesn’t seem quite right that being hit during a recovery won’t flinch you. Especially the parry and kick recovery scenarios.

    I think there should be a second type of flinching that’s just for being hit during a recovery - one that won’t allow you to attack back but will still let you parry. That would surely stop the attacks that shouldn’t be getting through but still allow you a chance to defend yourself against combo rape.



  • @bada:

    This.

    ^



  • That video is a little too “in-depth” for my liking (hurr) but nonetheless thanks for making a video that shows what needs to be fixed. Explaining how its broken isn’t an argument supporting that it isn’t broken.



  • it’s only really broken with 1hander trades since 1handers are actually fast enough so the strike is actually unblockable unless your at a distance/move enough so that you get enough time to combofeint parry

    for the 2hander trades all you need to do is just combofeint parry, i think the only really annoying thing is how inconsistent it feels sometimes since you can’t really tell whether you hit them during the recovery of the parry or not

    also it feels like to me if you attack someone too quickly they dont get flinched or get stuck in some flinch recovery state or something and they can just swing without being in recovery



  • It’s less of a bug and more of a design flaw then.

    Still, there are situations where even the recovery time doesn’t explain a flinch failing to trigger. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … hCc98EIVGY



  • That means it should be an easy fix right?

    Just make flinching override recovery.



  • @yedrellow:

    That means it should be an easy fix right?

    Just make flinching override recovery.

    It’s hardly that easy. Some weapons have recovery as long as 1 second, and a 0.2s flinch should override that?



  • Flinch will be one of the hardest systems to regulate.

    Too few flinches or alternatively too many could deteriorate combat.

    I hope Torn Banner doesn’t underestimate the consequences of an imperfect flinch system.

    I absolutely want flinch to be addressed, I just hope they take their time with it.

    A hasty fix to flinch in the wrong direction could be quite detrimental to gameplay.



  • This is a perfect display of how broken the flinch mechanics are. It’s definately the most annoying part of this game. I really hope this video helps it to get fixed.



  • This is killing the game for me. Just got out of a match where half my deaths were attributed to this wonky ass mechanic.

    Combo interruptions on one player and not the other is also not mentioned or displayed in the video. I’m getting really really sick of having my faster weapon combo stopped while huge slow weapons happily finish theirs because of their longer attack animation that’s immune to flinch.



  • too “in-depth” for my liking (hurr)

    This sums up the Chivalry community quite nicely actually.



  • @HEXEN:

    Combo interruptions on one player and not the other is also not mentioned or displayed in the video. I’m getting really really sick of having my faster weapon combo stopped while huge slow weapons happily finish theirs because of their longer attack animation that’s immune to flinch.

    I did mention it in the annotation of the last one. If you watch bada he always tries to start a combo except for kick one, and I break it everytime. I just didn’t continue my combo, but I could have since he was indeed flinched after I was not.



  • @GhoXen:

    It’s hardly that easy. Some weapons have recovery as long as 1 second, and a 0.2s flinch should override that?

    I want to know where this figure is coming from. I have never seen a flinch that short, whether from idle or an interrupted swing. It’s always at least half a second before I’m able to wind up an attack.

    Here’s the deal. Broad daggers have a 0.3 stab windup and a 0.5 combo. So post a video of archer A stabbing archer B, causing idle flinch, and then trying to combo. If archer B can stab back and interrupt archer A’s combo, then and only then will I believe that idle flinch is 0.2 seconds.



  • Simple solution: If hit during recovery > Add cooldown thats prevents an attack after recovery is over for 0.2s seconds. If player initiates an attack during the 0.2s > Queue it, so it occurs as soon as that 0.2s is up. In the event the 0.2s cooldown is not enough to solve this issue, we can simply increase the cooldown.



  • @Martin:

    Simple solution: If hit during recovery > Add cooldown thats prevents an attack after recovery is over for 0.2s seconds. If player initiates an attack during the 0.2s > Queue it, so it occurs as soon as that 0.2s is up. In the event the 0.2s cooldown is not enough to solve this issue, we can simply increase the cooldown.

    That sounds like a great start.



  • @Martin:

    Simple solution: If hit during recovery > Add cooldown thats prevents an attack after recovery is over for 0.2s seconds. If player initiates an attack during the 0.2s > Queue it, so it occurs as soon as that 0.2s is up. In the event the 0.2s cooldown is not enough to solve this issue, we can simply increase the cooldown.

    My thoughts put into words. This is a solid idea that I’m in agreement with.



  • @GhoXen:

    @yedrellow:

    That means it should be an easy fix right?

    Just make flinching override recovery.

    It’s hardly that easy. Some weapons have recovery as long as 1 second, and a 0.2s flinch should override that?

    Right so a solution would be to flinch during recovery if attacked within a 0.5s period after recovery has started. If that is even neccesary. Afterall, a weapon’s recovery time is longer because its a more powerful weapon with a wider swing. Why should any point in your recovery make you immune to flinch?

    @demonwing:

    too “in-depth” for my liking (hurr)

    This sums up the Chivalry community quite nicely actually.

    I don’t think you get it.



  • @demonwing:

    too “in-depth” for my liking (hurr)

    This sums up the Chivalry community quite nicely actually.

    Quickly, jump on your soapbox and tell us that this never happens and that we just need to “get better” because it’s impossible according to your testing and paper theorycraft. :D

    Don’t even bother trying to explain away the apparent anomalies presented in the linked video and how ridiculous they make you look in light of your previous responses on this issue.

    No “weird camera angles” in this footage; just a complete refutation of everything you swore “impossible.” 8-)