Tactics and FPS Gamers.



  • Just to give you an idea why/what I am thinking…
    I have played a couple FPS shooters and the multiplayer gameplay is not about teamwork, even if you do have a team. Most of the time it is run, gun, die, respawn, repeat steps 1-4. This to me is incredibly unfun and boring. Now I fight in the SCA which recreates medieval combat to an extent. Where there is massive amounts of teamwork on large scale battles. There are some lone wolfs but for the most part working together will win the fight. So far with the clips I have seen from this game it seems to be a lot of incredibly unorganized battles with people running all over the place. This is not a problem at all, if people are going to play this way and they think its fun more power to them! Now on to the point

    TLDR
    How will this game support gamers who are will to work shoulder to shoulder as a unit and fight with tactics rather than lone wolfing it every respawn? For instance having a 12 man team that uses 5 Knights as tanks that hold a shield wall and protect 3 vangaurds who stay behind the knights and use the rang of their weapons to attack over the knights. And then 3 archers behind them so they can fire safely from behind the shield wall, with a skirmisher to protect them in case of a flank.

    Would this be an advantage or a disadvantage in this game?



  • Superior tactics are pretty much always advantageous I think. The only problem with using such tactics is this: public games. In most multiplayer games you’ll jump into a random match where people are all doing their own thing and no one wants to listen to you and your ideas.
    If you want to exercise tactics you’ll want to get into the clan/guild/group-of-people-who-play-together-regularly scene.



  • @Kenuric:

    Now I fight in the SCA

    You mean “I fight with a group of nerds who use heavily padded armor and sticks.” ??
    Sorry, had to poke fun. (im living history and live steel, utilizing the same armor and fighting techniques from 500+ years ago, no modern foam padding, no rattan. cloth matting for padding, heat treated steel armor, and repro training swords [found to have rebated edges for sparring, or we use oak]).

    Back to the topic.
    yes, strategy will get you a long ways, we utilize strategy on Battlefield 3, and it most always gets us a win. Sometimes they have luck on their hand, but its all a form of strategy, guerrilla warfare, squad tactics, air support, sniper support, you name it, weve probably done it.
    So yea, use tactics, shield walls against archers on approach, two or three man support with a heavy, just to name a couple.
    The possibilities are endless, but you will find me, bow in hand, providing a ranged support to the fighters, im no robin hood.



  • You mean “I fight with a group of nerds who use heavily padded armor and sticks.” ??
    Sorry, had to poke fun. (im living history and live steel, utilizing the same armor and fighting techniques from 500+ years ago, no modern foam padding, no rattan. cloth matting for padding, heat treated steel armor, and repro training swords [found to have rebated edges for sparring, or we use oak]).

    Thats not what I meant at all, poke fun all you like but you seem misinformed. Some SCA groups are filled with daisies and others are filled with hardcores that do medieval combat justice.
    The only modern foam we use in in our helmets. Cloth matting? You mean a “gambeson” yeah we wear those.

    Clans/ guilds will provide great competition. Its a shame that more people won’t realize that working together and sticking together in melee oriented combat is the way to go. I’m very interested to see how many people will ignore the fact they have a team.



  • Nah, i know the SCA has a varied… uhh… attendance, there you go.
    Ive met all kinds, One of the eastern kingdoms seems like they all have sticks shoved up their asses, but that doesnt indicate all of them, and i know there are also purists, i was just poking fun at the masses i have seen that have like 4 inches of padding in their helmets.
    I wear a cotton matted coif, chain coif, and a leather lined helm.
    I saw this one guy, had like an expanding foam type deal in his helmet, seriously, had like 3 inches all around of foam, it was saddening.
    Anywho yea, mad respect for all groups in their own respect.

    As far as the tactics deal goes.
    Bro. lets be honest, finding people who actually play for group rather than self is like finding a goddamn dolphin in a river, while it can happen, when it does, horses become unicorns, and pigs shit rainbows.



  • Interesting discussion. As long as You find me in game - i will stand as a vanguard and utilize a tactical approach. Just say a word :)



  • @Lancebringer:

    Nah, i know the SCA has a varied… uhh… attendance, there you go.
    Ive met all kinds, One of the eastern kingdoms seems like they all have sticks shoved up their asses, but that doesnt indicate all of them, and i know there are also purists, i was just poking fun at the masses i have seen that have like 4 inches of padding in their helmets.
    I wear a cotton matted coif, chain coif, and a leather lined helm.
    I saw this one guy, had like an expanding foam type deal in his helmet, seriously, had like 3 inches all around of foam, it was saddening.
    Anywho yea, mad respect for all groups in their own respect.

    As far as the tactics deal goes.
    Bro. lets be honest, finding people who actually play for group rather than self is like finding a goddamn dolphin in a river, while it can happen, when it does, horses become unicorns, and pigs shit rainbows.

    I know the masses of which you speak, and it is indeed saddening. It’s a shame they give us such a bad name…haha, And there are lots of sticks that are firmly lodged in asses, I can confirm this. But not the guys I fight with, so that’s all I care about.

    I think a sweet feature would be giving a defensive bonus to people that work in groups. Like an addition to armor rating when you have 5 or more people within weapons reach of each other. Give a kind of nudge towards relying on ones team mates for defense.



  • @yush:

    Interesting discussion. As long as You find me in game - i will stand as a vanguard and utilize a tactical approach. Just say a word :)

    More people like you need to exist. Can you imagine a well coordinated solid group slaughtering the people that want to run in one at a time? It would be amazing.



  • @Kenuric:

    @yush:

    Interesting discussion. As long as You find me in game - i will stand as a vanguard and utilize a tactical approach. Just say a word :)

    More people like you need to exist. Can you imagine a well coordinated solid group slaughtering the people that want to run in one at a time? It would be amazing.

    open democratic association of teamplayers with somekinda codex anyone&



  • From a historical standpoint, we could be Ordu Templii, or order of the temple of soloman.
    We could also just be Knights Templar, but thats very mainstream, and most just want the name.

    As the Ordu Templii members, we would uphold the code of honour and assist those in need, we would provide our team a steadfast group that work together, for the greater glory of all, not just one.
    A tightknit group like the 3 Musketeers, but much larger, much like the Temple knights were, they were feared for the fact they would fight to the death, always finding each other by the mantle worn on the field.
    They didnt always win, but they fought honorably, even without a leader, they fought.
    Im down.
    Count me in for whatever we shall call ourselves.


  • Developer

    If players are of a roughly equivalent individual skill level but one team of them is working together while the other is not, the team that is organized and coordinated will absolutely decimate their opponents. It might not be the case that all historically accurate formations will be effective ingame, but there will be new strategies as well as some of old that will work. Teamwork will always put you ahead in the game, as for public games all it takes is a respectful group with a strong leader.



  • Teamwork and being apart of the big picture is great, but that being said i still do like the few lone wolves as you say. Seeing your one knight battle a large group gives me a sence of direction, a goal in which to reach with the clash of steel to light the way.

    I do think freedom also drives the motion of the game but is kept rolling by the urge of your teamwork. I am not afraid to fight alone but those actions will carry the burden of being alone.

    With strong teamwork there will be no task too great for the might of combined arms.



  • @gallows:

    With strong teamwork there will be no task too great for the might of combined arms.

    HUZZAH! see you on the battlefield my friend!



  • We could make a clan, but its so mainstream ;)

    As for me - if anyone on battlefield screams Ordu Templii! i will be at his side in a blink of an eye.

    Let us remember one thing - on real battlefield people wasn’t so eager to die couple of times. Most of them had only one life ;) and the best way to save it were teammates, brothers in arms.

    If You ask me - let there be no respawns (as a server option ofc).



  • @yush:

    We could make a clan, but its so mainstream ;)

    As for me - if anyone on battlefield screams Ordu Templii! i will be at his side in a blink of an eye.

    Let us remember one thing - on real battlefield people wasn’t so eager to die couple of times. Most of them had only one life ;) and the best way to save it were teammates, brothers in arms.

    If You ask me - let there be no respawns (as a server option ofc).

    No respawns would be a fun option for sure. It would force tactics to manifest or you would face endless beatings. As for me I will also be coming to the aid of any who shout Ordu Templii, flail and heater shield in hand.



  • There was a lot of this kind of talk in warband. The main problem is the tactics/formations people want to use generally will not work on a small scale engagement with 15 per side.

    Making a shield wall for example does nothing. If you want to protect archers, if you are close enough to offer them missile protection, they can’t shoot without hitting you in the back. If you offer a crack to shoot through, that actually makes them an easier, stationary target for return fire.

    When melee fighters come into range, and you want to protect them from that, staying in a shield wall will again be useless. To work you can only face one direction. So either you stay with the wall you have made, while everybody runs around you and hits you in the back, or you turn to face these people and defend yourself, in turn breaking down the formation, having gained nothing from it except looking cool.

    Now it might have SOME benefit in trying to stop gap a narrow area with knights and the tower shield, physically blocking an the entrance so you can’t be flanked. But honestly someone will just throw a firepot and light you all in fire, or stand in front of you shooting arrows and throwing weapons where they have all the time in the world to aim and find a gap. Further, people can simply kick you back out of formation and penetrate to start swinging at people’s backs, breaking the formation.

    In the melee game format, honestly the only way to work with a teammate is mutual assistance. This means stand close enough to a person that you can both hit them at the same time in a location they can’t block. If both players are melee this is harder to maintain, easier if either has long reach weapons. If one is ranged and the other is melee, this is much better as the ranged guy can theoretically hit the other player at will.

    That is pretty much it when it comes to tactics IMHO. Some of that other stuff is thematically cool, and really fun to do for the sake of doing it, but for winning games its typically not what you’d end up seeing. It’s all down to getting the team to be at the right place at the right time, mutually supporting one another, with each individual being reasonably talented in their role.

    Also, pub matches, don’t be so scorned that people dont ‘follow directions’, there really is no reason people should have to listen to ‘orders’ from a random guy that logged on and felt he knows best what everyone is doing. For people to listen to you, you have to prove yourself to them, and yes, I have seen on many games well known people (usually already having a contingent of players on that will listen to them ) on the server getting some pub play in order, so it is possible… but don’t expect to just join a server and be in charge.

    I know myself for example, when I hop on a game I’m either just stress relieving, am trying to figure out if xyz works in the game, or just generally don’t give a crap about the outcome of game #546334325 and am looking for the best way to have fun. That said if people are organized in some fashion, that is usually more fun than pub swarming.



  • @reapy:

    I know myself for example, when I hop on a game I’m either just stress relieving, am trying to figure out if xyz works in the game, or just generally don’t give a crap about the outcome of game #546334325 and am looking for the best way to have fun. That said if people are organized in some fashion, that is usually more fun than pub swarming.

    Some form of organization is always more fun. Running in and not giving a crap is the exact mindset that brings down the quality of gameplay for everyone else who might want to work together.

    I was just using a shield wall as an example of a single formation to try, you based everything you said off of it. I agree that it could easily be broken up but the main pont is trying to get people to stay within weapons reach of each other so you can put two weapons on one person at any time.



  • Huzzah!
    Bravo bravo my brethren.
    Keep up the thoughts and discussion.
    You are hitting the mark.
    We cannot simply just use “Gentleman’s Warfare”
    Napoleon was one of the first to figure this out, and the Vikvirer sure as hell didnt use it.
    The battlefield is an ever dynamic and changing event.
    When I train, spar, or even enter a tourny, im constantly changing my tactics.
    Find out what works, what doesnt.
    Exploit the weakness’.
    Commit to the blow.
    Be ever Vigilant.
    Stay strong my brothers, for we shall see the victory.



  • From my experiences in Age of Chivalry, I can tell you that public games didn’t differ that much from other FPS games in terms of player mentality. Sure there were some players doing their job and focusing on the objectives but the majority was simply looking for another kill and running amok (not to mention the chaos often caused by teamkillers).

    Clan matches however were a completely different story. The match outcome was largely dependant on the cooperation of players and skills of their commander (usually one player was chosen to coordinate others). Those games were some of the best gaming experiences I ever had. And although tactics like shield walls and formations were rarely used due to their low effectiveness in real combat scenarios, players were actively covering each-other and often fighting together like a true band of brothers.

    For example, I remember fighting the Vanquish clan and being amazed by their cooperation. They formed small squads that would single out enemy players and kill them extremely quickly one by one, striking all at once. Fighting an enemy with such a level of organisation was a real pain but also a wonder to observe.

    I sure hope that those glorious battles will come again to life with the release of Chivalry.



  • I feel just like You, Lance :)
    I will be most honoured to fight by Your side. One thing wasn’t mentioned that has a large impact on cooperation. The guy who coordinates it - yes, but everyone needs to THINK, have good outlook in situation around and be elastic, even read each other thoughts.

    for example - Knight and vanguard breaking into a hall, killing couple of defenders, hall is clear, but from a doorway leading forward some footsteps are coming. One moment of decision, vanguard places himself near the doorway, knight sees it and comes in, looking that two enemies are coming, he draws a shield and going back protected by it, retreating (thats what enemy thinking). Suddenly, when both of enemies are outside the doors, vanguard stabs one in da back, knight doing the rest. Understanding without words - thats the key, and achieved only by practising and playing with teammate.

    cheerz.
    Cant f*ckin wait.


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