Thoughts on the game after a bit of time



  • Hello everybody! I’m new to these forums but I’ve gotten really active on other forums that I’ve started, so I assume the same will happen here.

    I am really enjoying Chivalry, and definitely am glad I got it over War of the Roses. Everything is solid, except for a couple of things that really hurt the gameplay experience. I am a newb here, yes, but I’ve got a friend who has put nearly 200 hours into the game and who is very good (always wins duel rounds, and is very good in general) but shares my same frustrations.

    I’ve had the pleasure of playtesting a lot of games, so I’ve done a lot balance suggestions, and the like, and so I really like to get involved in getting things balanced across the board. Here are two issues that really hurt my enjoyment of the game:

    1. Lag. Horrendous lag. I get a ping of 50 or less on almost all other games, but in Chivalry a good server averages around 100. This is a big issue because timing is so important in this game; any bit of lag absolutely ruins your fighting chance. It is very sporadic but happens a lot more in bigger servers….the other day I had no less than ten arrows clip through my foes, my crossbow would get stuck up and would not come down for anything, nor could I reload, and one round I couldn’t parry at all. It just wouldn’t do anything. My friends and I tried 4 or 5 servers one night before quitting in frustration because they all lagged out to the point we couldn’t have fun because we were getting irritated that our attacks/parries weren’t working.

    2. Arrow delay. Being a huge sniper guy, I loved the idea of archery in the game. Only good snipers could do well here, since there is enough delay in arrows in real life that you’ve got to lead even at short ranges, whereas in most games you don’t have to lead even at medium-long ranges while sniping (much less drop). My issue here is that the delay is too long. It is way too easy to dodge arrows right now. Even at point blank range, enemies can sidestep a shot, even if I led them a bit. Real arrows hit their targets faster than in game. At ranges longer than 10 yd, where Archers are supposed to fight, sniping targets becomes much more luck than skill, since even if you lead properly there is a good chance your target may accelerate in a direction you could not account for, or simply decelerrate (I know it isn’t a correct term). The biggest problem with sniping in games vs real life is that in games characters are moving much much more than they do in real life, and so leading and projectile speed becomes all that more crucial. In Chivalry, the lead time is so large that that the arrows are about as effective as throwing axes at the ranges throwing axes come into play, while at that range you should be able to easily dispatch your target. A good opponent will almost always dodge your shot, no matter how well you aim, since lead time is directly correlated by the arrow speed, and with such low speeds as we have the lead time is such that enemies can easily dodge arrows. The only characters in the game that stay still are long range archers, and while those are easily taken down, they all just shoot each other all game since that’s all they can hit.

    An arrow at 10 yd or less should really hit nearly instaneously, like it does in real life, especially the crossbows. The drop on the default bow also seemed a tad bit excessive when I used it; I don’t recall having nearly as much drop on a light 30lb bow in real life as the much stronger bows used in the game. Increasing the speed of arrows in the game would really help to make skilled archers viable, since going up at close ranges would be risky but would guarantee a kill, whereas hanging back would make it much more luck based as it was in real fighting. A final note is that lag could be a main culprit here: sometimes I would hit things just fine, othertimes I felt as if I was aiming perfectly yet could not hit crap. Regardless, archery at safe ranges is really just chance in the current form, since high movement of enemies completely counteracts the low velocity of our arrows.

    Sorry for the wall of text, but I feel that if these two issues get sorted out the game will be the perfect standard of what a medieval combat game should be like.

    TL;DR version: Lag and the slow velocity of arrows really hurt the gameplay. Not performing moves when I expected (in a game where timing is key) is awful, and the sluggish rate of arrows makes them easy to dodge at even close ranges (I prefer letting them get into melee range to ensure they don’t sidestep my arrow), and more luck than skill (even the best snipers can’t predict the rapid changes in movement in a game such as this, and having to lead such slow projectiles is frustrating when any change in movement will make it miss).

    Side note: More indication of catapult power would be really nice…I got the hang of it after two or three shots, but not before accidentally killing some teammates since I thought the sling was back farther than it was. I am not sure about a general targeting indicator, as that could quickly make them too strong, but there should be a better way of knowing the distance of your shot.



  • I agree about the catapult, but when arching, I’d suggest using the crossbow to try and get into it - it has better projectile speed, so you don’t need to lead as much (I still suck with longbow, lol). Also, before trying archer, I’d definitly suggest trying some MaA or Knight time with the throwing weapons - those are difficult to master, but rewarding if used well.



  • @Hadron:

    I agree about the catapult, but when arching, I’d suggest using the crossbow to try and get into it - it has better projectile speed, so you don’t need to lead as much (I still suck with longbow, lol). Also, before trying archer, I’d definitly suggest trying some MaA or Knight time with the throwing weapons - those are difficult to master, but rewarding if used well.

    I’ve actually only been really using the crossbow as the regular ones don’t do well outside of throwing ranges - ranges which are very deadly to archers since Vanguards and MoW close the distance fast and behead you before you switch to your dagger. Even then, unless my enemy has no idea I’m aiming at him, and isn’t fighting anyone else (that is, he is just running straight without any direction changes), I can’t land good shots on him. The crossbow is the long range master, yet the bolts still can be dodged at 8ft? Hitting a moving target at a distance is considered good shooting in most games, since long range sniping is difficult because of the lead time and drop. The issue here is that it is too extreme; the lead time and drop is so severe even the best players can’t make up for it. This is evidenced by low archer scores across the board….the only ones that score in the top third get kills and points by playing another class, while using archer for fun/because there weren’t any on the team.



  • That’s really strange because I get a ping of 50 when I expect a ping of 80. Though when some servers get full your ping may rise because the server isn’t good enough.

    A lot of other lag and glitch issues are just due to the nature of the unreal engine. You should have plate the game when it first came out. They do patches quite often and fix things.

    And in the next upcoming patch they have increasd the speed of crossbow bolts by around 20-25% depending on the crossbow. The heavy crossbow is very easy to use at medium range as aiming at the front of your target you will still hit now. And the heaven crossbow takes a vanguard to criticle health. If he stubs his toe he dies.

    And a catapult is very hard to create an easy way to calculate distance. The clicks are easy enough.



  • @lemonater47:

    That’s really strange because I get a ping of 50 when I expect a ping of 80. Though when some servers get full your ping may rise because the server isn’t good enough.

    A lot of other lag and glitch issues are just due to the nature of the unreal engine. You should have plate the game when it first came out. They do patches quite often and fix things.

    And in the next upcoming patch they have increasd the speed of crossbow bolts by around 20-25% depending on the crossbow. The heavy crossbow is very easy to use at medium range as aiming at the front of your target you will still hit now. And the heaven crossbow takes a vanguard to criticle health. If he stubs his toe he dies.

    And a catapult is very hard to create an easy way to calculate distance. The clicks are easy enough.

    I figured the devs knew about the lag issue….I just wanted to make sure as it is the main thing hurting my experience. Glad to hear about those changes…that will help a lot. This doesn’t ease my concerns on the regular bows tho…know anything about those?

    Can you adjust your view on the catapult? If I could see it better that would help me immensely, since sometimes you can’t hear the clicks.



  • @Tankcommander:

    @lemonater47:

    That’s really strange because I get a ping of 50 when I expect a ping of 80. Though when some servers get full your ping may rise because the server isn’t good enough.

    A lot of other lag and glitch issues are just due to the nature of the unreal engine. You should have plate the game when it first came out. They do patches quite often and fix things.

    And in the next upcoming patch they have increasd the speed of crossbow bolts by around 20-25% depending on the crossbow. The heavy crossbow is very easy to use at medium range as aiming at the front of your target you will still hit now. And the heaven crossbow takes a vanguard to criticle health. If he stubs his toe he dies.

    And a catapult is very hard to create an easy way to calculate distance. The clicks are easy enough.

    I figured the devs knew about the lag issue….I just wanted to make sure as it is the main thing hurting my experience. Glad to hear about those changes…that will help a lot. This doesn’t ease my concerns on the regular bows tho…know anything about those?

    Can you adjust your view on the catapult? If I could see it better that would help me immensely, since sometimes you can’t hear the clicks.

    The regular bow did have some changes that positively affect bows but I forgot them. I do know the short bow fires faster and has more arrows. That’s all I remember.



  • @Tankcommander:

    @lemonater47:

    That’s really strange because I get a ping of 50 when I expect a ping of 80. Though when some servers get full your ping may rise because the server isn’t good enough.

    A lot of other lag and glitch issues are just due to the nature of the unreal engine. You should have plate the game when it first came out. They do patches quite often and fix things.

    And in the next upcoming patch they have increasd the speed of crossbow bolts by around 20-25% depending on the crossbow. The heavy crossbow is very easy to use at medium range as aiming at the front of your target you will still hit now. And the heaven crossbow takes a vanguard to criticle health. If he stubs his toe he dies.

    And a catapult is very hard to create an easy way to calculate distance. The clicks are easy enough.

    I figured the devs knew about the lag issue….I just wanted to make sure as it is the main thing hurting my experience. Glad to hear about those changes…that will help a lot. This doesn’t ease my concerns on the regular bows tho…know anything about those?

    Can you adjust your view on the catapult? If I could see it better that would help me immensely, since sometimes you can’t hear the clicks.

    The regular bows did have some changes that positively affect bows but I forgot them. I do know the short bow fires faster and has more arrows. That’s all I remember.

    I wish you could change the camera view on the catapult but you can’t.

    Remember this is an indie game and they had no money really to do anything. They have done really well to release a game of this calibre.



  • @lemonater47:

    @Tankcommander:

    @lemonater47:

    That’s really strange because I get a ping of 50 when I expect a ping of 80. Though when some servers get full your ping may rise because the server isn’t good enough.

    A lot of other lag and glitch issues are just due to the nature of the unreal engine. You should have plate the game when it first came out. They do patches quite often and fix things.

    And in the next upcoming patch they have increasd the speed of crossbow bolts by around 20-25% depending on the crossbow. The heavy crossbow is very easy to use at medium range as aiming at the front of your target you will still hit now. And the heaven crossbow takes a vanguard to criticle health. If he stubs his toe he dies.

    And a catapult is very hard to create an easy way to calculate distance. The clicks are easy enough.

    I figured the devs knew about the lag issue….I just wanted to make sure as it is the main thing hurting my experience. Glad to hear about those changes…that will help a lot. This doesn’t ease my concerns on the regular bows tho…know anything about those?

    Can you adjust your view on the catapult? If I could see it better that would help me immensely, since sometimes you can’t hear the clicks.

    The regular bows did have some changes that positively affect bows but I forgot them. I do know the short bow fires faster and has more arrows. That’s all I remember.

    I wish you could change the camera view on the catapult but you can’t.

    Remember this is an indie game and they had no money really to do anything. They have done really well to release a game of this calibre.

    For sure! Just like the game Primal Carnage.



  • The archery seems pretty good to me, and I’ve done some archery over the years (was pretty good too)

    The arrows at close range are about as fast and as accurate as they should be. I die enough from arrows as it is and I’ve gotten a number of good hits myself.

    The lead time and speed matches pretty closely to what I have experienced when using a real bow.

    They are not supposed to be rail guns and yes…. after a certain distance of travel, the arrows will not only slow in speed and height, but damage as well. (dunno if the damage reduces in the game based on speed though)

    At long range, bows are more of a bombardment weapon than a “Sniping” weapon (unless your target is standing in one spot for a period of time, ie: another archer or someone using a catapult/ballista)

    As for ping issues, I can’t say I have experienced any serious issues with lag/ping…… though maybe the solution is to get Client Side Hit Detection into the game. Another UE3 game I play had some serious issues with high pings and bad lead time, where people would shoot at their target and miss, even when they shouldn’t. Client Side Hit Detection was introduced into the game and now even players with pings of 400+ can still compete pretty well with players with 40 ping…… and they no longer affect the other players with their high pings. It was a very good addition to the game.



  • Client side hit detection means that too players can kill each other in melee. I hate killing someone walking away and dying myself by the guy I killed.

    And if the other UE3 game your talking about is red orchestra 2 you have something wrong. Some bullets don’t come ou if the gun straight or end up spinning off target. Its a game mechanic for well used weapons. Your weapon improves as you level up that weapon.

    THat is of course if you were on about that game.



  • @lemonater47:

    Client side hit detection means that too players can kill each other in melee. I hate killing someone walking away and dying myself by the guy I killed.

    And if the other UE3 game your talking about is red orchestra 2 you have something wrong. Some bullets don’t come ou if the gun straight or end up spinning off target. Its a game mechanic for well used weapons. Your weapon improves as you level up that weapon.

    THat is of course if you were on about that game.

    Indeed I was talking about that game, but you’re wrong on some details. The bullets come out the exact same way in a worn weapon as they do from a select grade weapon. The only things that change between the various conditions are the textures / appearance. Recoil, weapon sway and reload speeds improve as you level up, but the accuracy and trajectory of rounds, as well as bullet drop are all the same.

    As an example, if you take a K98 rifle and aim the exact same way with it in both conditioned weapons, the bullet will land the exact same way. I have most weapons all maxed out in leveling, yet you still have the option to select between the weapon conditions so you can adjust the attachments.

    For example, a well used K98 has a hood sight and looks worn…. standard issue has a bayonet and looks a bit nicer… a select grade K98 has a bayonet and sight hood removed… all operate the exact same for me and my reload/recoil/sway all remain the same between them as it’s just the model being replaced and the affects are assigned based on my character’s level.

    A well worn PPSH looks dirty and has a stick magazine… a standard issue PPSH has a 71 round drum magazine and the select grade looks nice and clean, has the drum mag and also has select fire capability… but using any of the three operate all the same way for me.

    What I was talking about was the latency issues when the hit detection was assigned server side instead of client side. With the implemented mod designed by a community member for client side hit detection, shots became more accurate, long range shots didn’t need to be led as excessively and seemed more normal, and in close quarters combat bullets no longer appeared to miss the target, yet hit the wall directly behind them.

    what you described at the start of your post is what was going on before this was implemented. Again, now with this in the game, I have played a server in Florida from here in Melbourne with a ping of 425 and still did pretty good. And I never notice any ping issues with other players above 100 ping unless I check their pings in the scoreboard, which I often see multiple players with pings well above 300.

    Beforehand, you’d never see players with pings like that.

    But whether a similar system would help with this game, I am not sure.





  • The problem with that kind of hit detection in Chivalry is that high ping becomes an advantage. You’ll hit players normally with your 400 ping, but on their screen your animation has barely started playing.

    Unfortunately I don’t think there’s any kind of solution to high pings in a melee game like this that relies completely on reading the other player’s animations. There’s no way to make a client side prediction system that can predict animations - it would have to read the player’s mind and know when they’re going to initiate an attack.



  • I’ve come to the decision it is the latency that is really the problem with arrows. On smaller servers I hit fine, but once the player count gets over around 12 arrows start disappearing outright. A guy was charging me in a hallway (couldn’t go anywhere but straight) and though I shot an arrow right at his neck (couldn’t miss it) it went right through him as if I didn’t even shoot at all.

    This affects even the other classes, since block doesn’t work, sometimes you can’t sprint…and it isn’t my computer or internet, because I max out all other games and my internet has never had problems on any other game (ME3 doesn’t count; servers are bad for it too). I think I’m going to stop playing the game for awhile until the patch hits and hopefully fixes this.


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