Flinch



  • After repeatedly encountering this problem, I thought it was time to raise a few questions of my own, and seeing how this new section does not yet have a thread on this very important game mechanic, might as well be time to make it.
    On with it then. Being a person who likes to combo, I have, with increased frequency, been encountering this very annoying problem. After landing the first combo hit and following up with another, I experience the enemy somehow managing to wind up AND deliver his swing (which, in these cases, mostly happens to be an overhead) BEFORE my second combo hit lands. And it just completely blows my mind.
    The way I understand it, the idle flinch is supposed to deny you the ability to attack long enough so that if the enemy decides to combo, you have no choice but to defend, because if you do start swinging, his swing will hit you first and interrupt yours. But this is not what’s been happening to me, when I’m attacking. While this mostly happens with two handers, I have experienced this with a man at arms as well, using a longsword. EVEN when the enemy is wielding a two hander. One particular case was me combo-ing a knight with a poleaxe, landing the first hit (stab) and proceeding to follow up with a combo slash- and as my slash animation was already underway, in the time it took for me to wind up and start swinging, he winds up his two hander and delivers an overhead, promptly crushing the life out of me.
    And this situation has repeated itself while facing enemies with a multitude of one handers, as well as even two handers, such as claymores, berdiches. So I must ask: is this a bug? An example of idle flinch not working as it should? Or do I just fail to understand the mechanic? Should I choose NOT to combo, if I risk getting hit between my combos, in which case, particularly for a light class, it can mean a death sentence (since you can’t really avoid it once your swing is already past the wind up, and I certainly never expect it)? Or is it just, I don’t know, lag or something? Bad luck on my part? A clarification would be very much appreciated, as this is one of the most annoying things in an otherwise great game for me.



  • Flinch is a mechanism in the game that is very bugged for the time being due to the netcoding or loss packets. There are several ways this flinch can get bypassed on.

    1. If you strike your opponent, then strike him real quick with a second strike, That second strike will NOT flinch him because you already had him in a flinched state, but then hit him with the second one during his flinch state, so thus he will be able to recover during your own weapon recovery, then smack you straight down unless you do a combo -> cancel -> parry.

    2. With shield you can exploitingly bypass flinch by quickly raising and lowering your shield while being flinched, this bug is very noticeable when using a Buckler, as it is the fastest shield in the game so far.

    3. If you hit someone during a weapon recovery, I believe the flinch does not aquire then either.

    Its a bug that will hopefully get a fix soon, I can imagine how loveable fast weapons like daggers will become once the flinch bug is fixed.



  • I’ve had some issues with flinching as well… It’s so annoying! :x



  • @SlyGoat:

    What most peoples’ big problem with flinch is, is that if you hit an enemy in a recovery period, they don’t flinch. Sometimes this doesn’t matter, because a flinch is only .2 seconds and recovery times average around .6, but if you hit near the tail end of a recovery if can allow immediate retaliation.

    Additionally, parry recoveries are only .5 seconds with any weapon, and it’s far more frequent to hit an enemy at the tail end of a parry recovery - and many players who aren’t even aware of the specifics of flinching mechanics will be slamming the attack button trying to get a parry counter off even if they failed the parry, so they’ll start swinging immediately.

    This has been discussed personally with the devs recently, and a fix of some kind should be coming soon (possibly next patch, but it’s not a guarantee) which will either apply a flinch after the recovery time ends if you’re hit during recovery, or apply a flinch immediately if you’re hit in the last .2 seconds of recovery - or possibly something else along those lines.

    @Wulfy: the “Hitting an enemy with a combo while they’re still flinched” thing is a myth. No weapon in the game has a .2 second combo windup, which is how long flinch lasts, so it’s impossible for them to still be flinched when your second hit connects.



  • “FIX FLINCH”
    *holds-up-sign



  • @SlyGoat:

    @SlyGoat:

    What most peoples’ big problem with flinch is, is that if you hit an enemy in a recovery period, they don’t flinch. Sometimes this doesn’t matter, because a flinch is only .2 seconds and recovery times average around .6, but if you hit near the tail end of a recovery if can allow immediate retaliation.

    Additionally, parry recoveries are only .5 seconds with any weapon, and it’s far more frequent to hit an enemy at the tail end of a parry recovery - and many players who aren’t even aware of the specifics of flinching mechanics will be slamming the attack button trying to get a parry counter off even if they failed the parry, so they’ll start swinging immediately.

    This has been discussed personally with the devs recently, and a fix of some kind should be coming soon (possibly next patch, but it’s not a guarantee) which will either apply a flinch after the recovery time ends if you’re hit during recovery, or apply a flinch immediately if you’re hit in the last .2 seconds of recovery - or possibly something else along those lines.

    @Wulfy: the “Hitting an enemy with a combo while they’re still flinched” thing is a myth. No weapon in the game has a .2 second combo windup, which is how long flinch lasts, so it’s impossible for them to still be flinched when your second hit connects.

    While this is correct, what do you say about multiple opponents landing quick strikes? This would certainly result in the aforementioned situation.

    However, is this desireable, in order to allow people a fighting chance 2v1? Or should a person be punished for getting caught by multiple enemies?



  • @SlyGoat:

    @SlyGoat:

    What most peoples’ big problem with flinch is, is that if you hit an enemy in a recovery period, they don’t flinch. Sometimes this doesn’t matter, because a flinch is only .2 seconds and recovery times average around .6, but if you hit near the tail end of a recovery if can allow immediate retaliation.

    Additionally, parry recoveries are only .5 seconds with any weapon, and it’s far more frequent to hit an enemy at the tail end of a parry recovery - and many players who aren’t even aware of the specifics of flinching mechanics will be slamming the attack button trying to get a parry counter off even if they failed the parry, so they’ll start swinging immediately.

    This has been discussed personally with the devs recently, and a fix of some kind should be coming soon (possibly next patch, but it’s not a guarantee) which will either apply a flinch after the recovery time ends if you’re hit during recovery, or apply a flinch immediately if you’re hit in the last .2 seconds of recovery - or possibly something else along those lines.

    @Wulfy: the “Hitting an enemy with a combo while they’re still flinched” thing is a myth. No weapon in the game has a .2 second combo windup, which is how long flinch lasts, so it’s impossible for them to still be flinched when your second hit connects.

    I agree with you but what about player positioning? Could a player theoretically angle his body on a horizontal swing (or combo into a look down overhand) so that the second hit of a combo hits within .2 seconds (or .3, .4) of the combo activating? I don’t know if its possible but maybe because of the positioning of the player and their weapon during attacks.

    I doubt it but maybe… :?



  • @SlyGoat:

    @SlyGoat:

    What most peoples’ big problem with flinch is, is that if you hit an enemy in a recovery period, they don’t flinch. Sometimes this doesn’t matter, because a flinch is only .2 seconds and recovery times average around .6, but if you hit near the tail end of a recovery if can allow immediate retaliation.

    Additionally, parry recoveries are only .5 seconds with any weapon, and it’s far more frequent to hit an enemy at the tail end of a parry recovery - and many players who aren’t even aware of the specifics of flinching mechanics will be slamming the attack button trying to get a parry counter off even if they failed the parry, so they’ll start swinging immediately.

    This has been discussed personally with the devs recently, and a fix of some kind should be coming soon (possibly next patch, but it’s not a guarantee) which will either apply a flinch after the recovery time ends if you’re hit during recovery, or apply a flinch immediately if you’re hit in the last .2 seconds of recovery - or possibly something else along those lines.

    @Wulfy: the “Hitting an enemy with a combo while they’re still flinched” thing is a myth. No weapon in the game has a .2 second combo windup, which is how long flinch lasts, so it’s impossible for them to still be flinched when your second hit connects.

    Well, its a theory why Most man-at arms gets fucked over while combo attacking their enemy, this doesn’t not happend with slower weapons.



  • people need to understand that some combos are simply too slow or hit too early during active so the enemy can get a free trade or even interrupt, they are not guaranteed by any means especially when being attacked with fast weapons/lookdown overheads



  • @NikolaiLev:

    @SlyGoat:

    @SlyGoat:

    What most peoples’ big problem with flinch is, is that if you hit an enemy in a recovery period, they don’t flinch. Sometimes this doesn’t matter, because a flinch is only .2 seconds and recovery times average around .6, but if you hit near the tail end of a recovery if can allow immediate retaliation.

    Additionally, parry recoveries are only .5 seconds with any weapon, and it’s far more frequent to hit an enemy at the tail end of a parry recovery - and many players who aren’t even aware of the specifics of flinching mechanics will be slamming the attack button trying to get a parry counter off even if they failed the parry, so they’ll start swinging immediately.

    This has been discussed personally with the devs recently, and a fix of some kind should be coming soon (possibly next patch, but it’s not a guarantee) which will either apply a flinch after the recovery time ends if you’re hit during recovery, or apply a flinch immediately if you’re hit in the last .2 seconds of recovery - or possibly something else along those lines.

    @Wulfy: the “Hitting an enemy with a combo while they’re still flinched” thing is a myth. No weapon in the game has a .2 second combo windup, which is how long flinch lasts, so it’s impossible for them to still be flinched when your second hit connects.

    While this is correct, what do you say about multiple opponents landing quick strikes? This would certainly result in the aforementioned situation.

    However, is this desireable, in order to allow people a fighting chance 2v1? Or should a person be punished for getting caught by multiple enemies?

    If you’re allowing yourself to be hit twice in such a short time spawn in a 2v1, you don’t have a fighting chance to begin with. Remember you can always block even when flinched, so there’s really no excuse for letting that second attack hit you.



  • @SlyGoat:

    If you’re allowing yourself to be hit twice in such a short time spawn in a 2v1, you don’t have a fighting chance to begin with. Remember you can always block even when flinched, so there’s really no excuse for letting that second attack hit you.

    Then it looks like we’re in agreement. Getting hit during recovery should flinch you, no? :)



  • people need to understand that some combos are simply too slow or hit too early during active so the enemy can get a free trade or even interrupt, they are not guaranteed by any means especially when being attacked with fast weapons/lookdown overheads

    Actually, I think the very idea of flinching is that no matter what weapons the two opponents are using, once you land a hit and keep comboing, you keep hitting until the opponent parries/blocks an attack. And even so, the flinching bug is often used by knights with two handed weapons like the maul to just hit trade on the combo attack, as against any non-knight opponent they always win that contest. So it’s definitely not only with fast weapons that this problem occurs!



  • @NikolaiLev:

    @SlyGoat:

    If you’re allowing yourself to be hit twice in such a short time spawn in a 2v1, you don’t have a fighting chance to begin with. Remember you can always block even when flinched, so there’s really no excuse for letting that second attack hit you.

    Then it looks like we’re in agreement. Getting hit during recovery should flinch you, no? :)

    v

    @SlyGoat:

    What most peoples’ big problem with flinch is, is that if you hit an enemy in a recovery period, they don’t flinch. Sometimes this doesn’t matter, because a flinch is only .2 seconds and recovery times average around .6, but if you hit near the tail end of a recovery if can allow immediate retaliation.

    Additionally, parry recoveries are only .5 seconds with any weapon, and it’s far more frequent to hit an enemy at the tail end of a parry recovery - and many players who aren’t even aware of the specifics of flinching mechanics will be slamming the attack button trying to get a parry counter off even if they failed the parry, so they’ll start swinging immediately.

    This has been discussed personally with the devs recently, and a fix of some kind should be coming soon (possibly next patch, but it’s not a guarantee) which will either apply a flinch after the recovery time ends if you’re hit during recovery, or apply a flinch immediately if you’re hit in the last .2 seconds of recovery - or possibly something else along those lines.


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