MAA Dodge



  • To me dodge feels like a get out of jail free card that can be used all to often. I find it especially absurd when used to dodge backwards. With that said I do believe it has a place in the game but might need a second look at how it’s implemented/balanced.

    As it sits dodge feels more like a teleport rather than a subtle evasive maneuver.

    So what do you think? (Please post why’s not just yes/no)

    p.s. please don’t turn this thread into a discussion about MAA and class balance, it would be great to get a discussion on just the mechanic itself. Thanks!

    Wildcard – Would the dodge mechanic work if all classes were able to use it with varying degrees of effectiveness?



  • I’d say make the distance slightly less, as it is right now you can dodge back from 95% of weapons and avoid them. The only two that you can’t do this with is spear and brandistock, and possibly halberd stab. With the incoming MAA armor buff(s), this would keep the class in balance in my opinion.



  • I voted yes even though I play primarily MaA and don’t find dodge to be overpowered - I just don’t like the way it feels right now. I don’t have any kind of suggestion for a way to make it less teleporty without making it extremely weak, though.

    Also, at one point in the alpha, every class could indeed dodge, and perform the now-Vanguard-exclusive charge attack as well.



  • I play MaA as well. I don’t think it’s overpowered unless you really know what you’re doing but that can be said about pretty much anything in the game. It is already a difficult class to play and dodge is their saving grace. The class kind of needs that get out of jail free card. Considering that a vanguard can change their stab direction like 180 degrees, the current dodge doesn’t seem too ridiculous within the balance of the game. Visually, it looks retarded.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Also, at one point in the alpha, every class could indeed dodge, and perform the now-Vanguard-exclusive charge attack as well.

    Hmmm, interesting. Did they all have the same effectiveness? Seeing a knight dodge like a MAA does now would be hilarious

    Any insight on why giving dodge to all classes was scrapped? If implemented correctly I think it could have possibly added some more depth to combat.



  • Dodge was far less effective in alpha - which is why I’m hesitant to say it needs to be any shorter or slower than it is now, because when it was shorter and slower it was terrible. Though you also couldn’t attack during it, so there’s that.

    I can only assume dodge/charge were restricted to give the classes more uniqueness.



  • @Stillbjorn:

    I’d say make the distance slightly less, as it is right now you can dodge back from 95% of weapons and avoid them. The only two that you can’t do this with is spear and brandistock, and possibly halberd stab. With the incoming MAA armor buff(s), this would keep the class in balance in my opinion.

    That’s the point of dodging. An the MAA can back dodge a halberd stab If the halberd user is stationary.

    Dodge can only be used 4 times without anything in between. Its the MAAs job to not get hit. A lot of two handers will kill them in two hits.

    I think they have done quite well with balancing. Most if the complaints are just from bad experiances and always have controversy. That means that all the weapons and classes are pretty much balanced.



  • @SlyGoat:

    I voted yes even though I play primarily MaA and don’t find dodge to be overpowered - I just don’t like the way it feels right now. I don’t have any kind of suggestion for a way to make it less teleporty without making it extremely weak, though.

    I have to echo this sentiment, as it really does feel “teleporty.” It’d be nice if the animation was touched up, made slower, and more fluid. However, the MaA does not need a nerf right now, so if we did this we would have to buff him somewhere else.

    A problem with MaA is because he lacks exclusive weapons, you can’t really buff his weapons without ninja buffing other classes. We could do other stats, like run speed, but his armor values are already encroaching upon the Vanguard (particularly pierce). We could conceivably give him even more blunt resistance, but that might be a bit wonky.

    So, if we were to nerf dodge, how do we make sure 1) Dodge is still useful and 2) MaA isn’t too weak?



  • You guys who are talking about being able to dodge all weapons realize thats the point of dodge.
    And also there is no weapon you can dodge if you are hugging your opponents face while he is running.
    An MAA has to find the perfect distance to his opponent, and the job of the opponent is to not let him.
    People dont know this basic, so they lose to MAA.

    MAA has a jaill free card while vanguards have swing free card , and knights have the
    “bitch please a million hit are not enough” card



  • Regardless of having a dodge ability or not for the Man-at arms, I still think they are capable of fighting well with their agility. They have got the ability to run in and out of the radius of the opponents weapon, depends on its reach or range of course. I’ve grown to really dislike this dodge feature for Man-at arms, its one of the most used ability in the game, and I believe there should be made some changes instead of removing it.

    removing its ability to perfom other moves while dodging would be great, really dislike that they can run into you, hit you then dodge back during the attack swing.

    Listed suggestion:

    ? No dodging during combo
    ? No dodging during attack at release stage
    ? No dodging durin attack at recovery stage?
    ? Less distance
    ? Less stamina drain
    ? Longer cooldown so that the Man-at arms can’t perfom two quick dodges to easily get out of the opponents range?

    The Man-at arms doesn’t really Need the dodging in order to fight, does it?



  • Where is the option - MAA Dodge is useless ? :D

    Actually, it’s a good stamina burner. So newbie (actually, not only newbie) MAA’s often fails with dodging. :)

    I vote for “Wildcard……etc”



  • it’d be nice to get extensive testing if making dodge changes since in scrims dodging seems fine
    i’m wondering if everyone’s mindset about dodge is in duels because it shouldn’t be



  • @kwazi:

    it’d be nice to get extensive testing if making dodge changes since in scrims dodging seems fine
    i’m wondering if everyone’s mindset about dodge is in duels because it shouldn’t be

    If dodge is available in TO, then It shall also be in ffa / duel

    If dodge is unavailable in ffa / duel, then it shall also be in TO.



  • I think the amount of abilities that can be done at the same time as dodge needs to be toned down. At the moment the MAA can, what, swing while dodging AND parry while dodging? It’s a little too much. And yes, somehow improving the animation would be very much appreciated as right now the side dodges are simply confusing, particularly from a first person perspective. Occasionally, if the MAA is standing close and dodges, or, should I say, teleports to the side, I can’t even figure out where the hell he is now, because the animation or, rather, the lack of it, didn’t indicate the direction he dodged to. Just poof, gone.

    Speaking of buffs though, I would support giving the MAA an ability to dodge while wielding a ranged weapon. Because why not?



  • how did you even get that from my post, not to mention it didnt correlate with my main statement

    let me make it more clear for you: my opinion is that dodge on maa is fine (it could use animation tweaks such as blurred lines following the maa whenever he dodges instead of him just teleporting) and it seems that the people discussing dodge in this topic are talking more about 1v1/duel situations rather than proper teamplay where it should be balanced around- in those situations i find that dodging doesn’t pose that big of a problem
    yes i realize that 1v1 situations will pop up and there are various problems with dodge. but as suggested in my first sentence i would appreciate a widespread testing of new mechanics before making big changes (instead of using a small group of testers)



  • Dodge is fine, MAA needs dodge to survive and have balance with other class’s.
    You cant play the class like any other, you have to play it as it is intended.
    In and out. Your gonna get one shoted, or two shotted when you die.
    Your not going to drop someone like you have a hammer.
    You have to be just outside the opponents range, get in hit and get out.
    That’s the price you pay for having dodge and a faster attack.



  • Need to be able to dodge while holding an oil pot.



  • I think it’s fine as it is with regards to distance, speed and stamina cost.
    If they slowed it down any or lowered the distance it would pretty much make dodging useless. You already need to dodge pretty early due to latency issues.

    One thing they could do to balance is it make it interrupt your windup so you can’t start an attack, then use the dodge to close in for a quick hit. It does feel pretty cheap attacking like that.



  • If they were to make dodge reliable and consistent i wouldn’t care how bad they nerf it. Also headroll dodges are the worst.



  • @Hlodvic:

    If they were to make dodge reliable and consistent i wouldn’t care how bad they nerf it. Also headroll dodges are the worst.

    Agreed. Godawful. Sometimes dodge doesn’t seem to go anywhere at all, sometimes the camera shoots back and then forth and you end up next to the guy you thought you just dodged away from. Terribly frustrating.

    Don’t get me wrong either, from my earlier post saying dodge needs a slight nerf, I don’t think MAA are at all over-powered. I just don’t think their play should revolve entirely around one mechanic. I think there should be several ways to play them, whereas now it just consists of dodge out, dodge in, swing 1h weapon, possibly add a feint in somewhere. I think dodge should be nerfed slightly, but they should be buffed in other ways. As for what, I’m not sure. Maybe make small shield not suck so much.


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