Countering, Knights, and Mauls



  • First issue: Parrying/Countering/Blocking (whatever you call it. I’ll call it countering for this post)
    I think that there needs to be some changes done to the timings on countering, how it works, and the effects vs different weapon types. I think that if I block/counter someone’s attack with my weapon, it should either A) Speed up my next swing or B) actually make the other person stumble long enough to get a swing in. As it is now, its much to easy to just have each person block back and forth, endlessly until someone gets bored or stabbed in the back by someone else.

    It seems that ANY combination of weapons in the fight makes no difference in the timing, and even if I right click right when they are about to hit me, I’ll counter and attack as fast as possible…yet they have time to either hit me or counter EVERY TIME, unless they get distracted. This whole system just doesn’t make sense to me. It’s a bit hard to explain but I can’t be the only one who feels this is a little…broken? Stamina seems to have no effect on this either (I actually haven’t noticed stamina do/prevent anything at all in this game), other than pushing them back a little, they still can counter or swing just as fast.

    Second Issue: Knight movement

    I feel that since a knight is in heavy armor and carrying heavy weapons they should not be able to sprint for very long, if at all, and definitely not have the same movement speed in general as the other classes. Too many times have I been MAA/Archer/Vanguard and I get mowed down by a knight who is running AND swinging nonstop behind me while I’m sprinting away. Its like they can catch up to me while swinging the whole time. This shouldn’t be possible. I am aware it is probably difficult to balance out the movement speeds of each class but it really does need balancing.

    Third Issue: Mauls

    I think it would be great if when you try to block a maul with a small weapon / no shield, you should have at least a 50% chance of being knocked down. A MAA with his dinky hand axe should not be able to effortlessly take a hit from a maul. Especially an Archer and his toothpick, he shouldn’t be able to even block/parry a maul. Knockdown doesn’t mean they have to take damage…although in the archer’s case I really hope it would lol.

    Last Issue: Halberd

    Please nerf that thing. Reduce the damage or speed…do something! It has Insane speed/reach and damage…it has no downside whatsoever and frankly it is SEVERELY gamebreaking.



  • Regarding the knights catching up to you. That is the chase mechanic. It is there so games can actually be finished without people just running away. Believe me its better that way and morale of the story is don’t run.

    The thing with the halberd is that its not an LMB weapon, so no noobs use it. Only people who are accurate In melee use it. This its the better players using the halberd. And whenever I use it people that I’m up against do the stupidest like try to stack me when I’m winding up for a stab and I’m just thinking why didn’t you parry. Some of them don’t even do anything and get stabbed.

    Stupidity and the fact that no noobs use it makes the weapon feel better than it is. But don’t get me wrong some smaller changes will make it not as powerful. They need to take the knock back down a bit too as you get hit and end up out of range. What they are doing Is making the stab animation easier to see with all pole arms and increasing the halberd stab time by 0.5 seconds. That should be more tha. Enough so even the idiots can block it.

    Me I have no problem going up against a halberd. An I agree that if you have a small weapon and block something like a maul you should fly back further and lose a lot I stamina. Toothpicks are the mails weakness.



  • @Dreadnaught396:

    First issue: Parrying/Countering/Blocking (whatever you call it. I’ll call it countering for this post)
    I think that there needs to be some changes done to the timings on countering, how it works, and the effects vs different weapon types. I think that if I block/counter someone’s attack with my weapon, it should either A) Speed up my next swing or B) actually make the other person stumble long enough to get a swing in. As it is now, its much to easy to just have each person block back and forth, endlessly until someone gets bored or stabbed in the back by someone else.

    To the naming:
    Parrying is done with a weapon
    Blocking with a shild
    Countering is then you do an attack 0.3 sec after block/parry , the attack is then speed up
    (Most people dont know this and it works not with every weapon/attacktype)

    A)As you see you can do this
    B) Thats the day when everyone quits playing this game.
    There is no way anyone will ever attack if you can just kill him is he does
    Also people die left and right, i have not seen the problem you mention

    Second Issue: Knight movement

    I feel that since a knight is in heavy armor and carrying heavy weapons they should not be able to sprint for very long, if at all, and definitely not have the same movement speed in general as the other classes. Too many times have I been MAA/Archer/Vanguard and I get mowed down by a knight who is running AND swinging nonstop behind me while I’m sprinting away. Its like they can catch up to me while swinging the whole time. This shouldn’t be possible. I am aware it is probably difficult to balance out the movement speeds of each class but it really does need balancing.

    There is a chase mechnic in place, you cant run away faster than a chasing person

    Third Issue: Mauls

    I think it would be great if when you try to block a maul with a small weapon / no shield, you should have at least a 50% chance of being knocked down. A MAA with his dinky hand axe should not be able to effortlessly take a hit from a maul. Especially an Archer and his toothpick, he shouldn’t be able to even block/parry a maul. Knockdown doesn’t mean they have to take damage…although in the archer’s case I really hope it would lol.

    No weapon in the game should be able to stomp an entire class (or two), you are not supposed to have a so large advantage.
    There are hundret ways allready, to get by someones parry, learn them !

    Last Issue: Halberd

    Please nerf that thing. Reduce the damage or speed…do something! It has Insane speed/reach and damage…it has no downside whatsoever and frankly it is SEVERELY gamebreaking.

    Since you explaint that so well, i know you have never played againt a competent Halbred user,
    those who not only spin, but are still able to do blocks and feinting while spinning and stuff.

    This weapon would be fine if they could not spin so much or the weapon would not push you back so much

    Your Post is like the thousend other posts of people raging, because
    1)they could not kill an archer
    2)they are not able to kill someone who blocks
    3)they dont understand the mechanics, because they are not explained in the game

    At least you now know there are counters and chasing



  • Imo big weapons need a knockback effect when blocked with low stamina or something



  • Can’t kill someone when they parry all the time? Do you know what a feint is, sir?



  • Don’t worry, the Halberd is getting nerfed. Unfortunately, 5 damage off its Slash and .05 on its stab is a pretty weak nerf, especially when you compare it to weapons like the Spear (the Halberd stab is both faster and does more damage than the spear).

    We’ll have to take what we can get, though. I’d love to actually use the Halberd, but I simply can’t bring myself to with how powerful it is.



  • @NikolaiLev:

    Don’t worry, the Halberd is getting nerfed. Unfortunately, 5 damage off its Slash and .05 on its stab is a pretty weak nerf, especially when you compare it to weapons like the Spear (the Halberd stab is both faster and does more damage than the spear).

    We’ll have to take what we can get, though. I’d love to actually use the Halberd, but I simply can’t bring myself to with how powerful it is.

    Ikr? Anyways, to the OP, I’m not going to harp on about what other people have already, about the chase mechanics. I agree that should be SOME sort of a bit more drastic effect when parrying a large, heavy 2-handed weapon with a dagger, but only to the extent of knockback and stamina drain.



  • @-Thylacine-:

    Can’t kill someone when they parry all the time? Do you know what a feint is, sir?

    I played pretty much all day yesterday, had an awesome time. That is until I went up against someone who was alone on a team vs 4 or 5, and he won EVERY time with the halberd. For 20 some odd games. I was playing with people on skype against him and we aren’t exactly new to the game. He was parrying 99.9% of every attack, no matter how fast our weapons were or how many times in a row we wailed on him. There were even instances where he’d have someone in front of him, behind him, and on the side, We’d all swing at the same time and he’d block in all directions. Only halberd players do this. There should not EVER, EVER, EVER be a “best weapon in the game”. Whether you’re good at the game or not, it shouldn’t mean you use one specific weapon/class and the rest are garbage.

    Something else I’ve noticed with the halberd - it has the shortest animation for an attack, so its hard as **** to parry. The characters arm/halberd moves like an inch and apparently its a 10 foot thrust.



  • This “chase mechanic” should be a serverside option that can be toggled, then. Other games don’t have this sort of thing and they are quite fine and balanced. It is completely ridiculous that someone in full plate armor runs faster than someone in leather. There should be more tactic involved instead of simply running at them. The issue of the game taking forever to end would be entirely up to the players. You keep running off and hiding when you’re the last one left, you get votekicked. Not rocket science.



  • @Dreadnaught396:

    @-Thylacine-:

    Can’t kill someone when they parry all the time? Do you know what a feint is, sir?

    I played pretty much all day yesterday, had an awesome time. That is until I went up against someone who was alone on a team vs 4 or 5, and he won EVERY time with the halberd. For 20 some odd games. I was playing with people on skype against him and we aren’t exactly new to the game. He was parrying 99.9% of every attack, no matter how fast our weapons were or how many times in a row we wailed on him. There were even instances where he’d have someone in front of him, behind him, and on the side, We’d all swing at the same time and he’d block in all directions. Only halberd players do this. There should not EVER, EVER, EVER be a “best weapon in the game”. Whether you’re good at the game or not, it shouldn’t mean you use one specific weapon/class and the rest are garbage.

    Something else I’ve noticed with the halberd - it has the shortest animation for an attack, so its hard as **** to parry. The characters arm/halberd moves like an inch and apparently its a 10 foot thrust.

    Tell me the name of this halberd vanguard, and I can tell you that he’s not doing anything wrong - with the parry animation up, if you can swirl your mouse fast enough, you can block in a 360-degree arc.

    Gotta agree with the thrust thing, though, it’s very annoying on halberd, especially since as the heavier weapon is should be SLOWER than a damn spear or bardiche.



  • @Dreadnaught396:

    This “chase mechanic” should be a serverside option that can be toggled, then. Other games don’t have this sort of thing and they are quite fine and balanced. It is completely ridiculous that someone in full plate armor runs faster than someone in leather. There should be more tactic involved instead of simply running at them. The issue of the game taking forever to end would be entirely up to the players. You keep running off and hiding when you’re the last one left, you get votekicked. Not rocket science.

    Erm, dude, you realize that the game without the mechanic would be next to impossible to actually kill someone who runs away instead of fighting?



  • Maybe have it turn on when there is less than 4 players remaining? I’m still strongly opposed to it… As for being able to do a 360 spin and block everything, that is a whole new level of me not liking this game anymore. You should have to block individually, not hit right click once and do a spin. That is so lazy lol.



  • On a side note, I really enjoy how this community attacks me because of my post here. Already been bitched at by several people in game regarding this post. I took screens of the chat but don’t really feel like uploading them at the moment.



  • @Dreadnaught396:

    Maybe have it turn on when there is less than 4 players remaining? I’m still strongly opposed to it…

    If chasing was to be removed it would put knights at a huge disadvantage as every other class could just run away from knights if they’ve got low health. And in the case of LTS with only a knight/vanguard and an archer left the archer would have the ability to run away, turn around and shoot the knight/vanguard, countinuing this strategy over and over again until the knight/vanguard dies.



  • Well, there is one thing that may cure the run-away question. It’s called acceleration. I mean, to run away from a scary knight you have to: 1. turn around, 2. accelerate 3. run. So, if there is a slow enough acceleration, few people will risk turning their backs to enemy.



  • @UnrealQW:

    Well, there is one thing that may cure the run-away question. It’s called acceleration. I mean, to run away from a scary knight you have to: 1. turn around, 2. accelerate 3. run. So, if there is a slow enough acceleration, few people will risk turning their backs to enemy.

    So… why bother removing something that already discourages people from turning their backs?

    I still haven’t heard a terribly compelling argument as to why the chase mechanic should be removed.



  • @NikolaiLev:

    @UnrealQW:

    Well, there is one thing that may cure the run-away question. It’s called acceleration. I mean, to run away from a scary knight you have to: 1. turn around, 2. accelerate 3. run. So, if there is a slow enough acceleration, few people will risk turning their backs to enemy.

    So… why bother removing something that already discourages people from turning their backs?

    I still haven’t heard a terribly compelling argument as to why the chase mechanic should be removed.

    If it gets removed (which imo is unlikely), we need some projectile or something to slow people down



  • I think there is an absurdity in the sprint/chase mechanics anyway. How is it that stamina cannot be tied to these?

    Sprinting Knight should drain his stamina. No reason to deprive sprint 100%, but sprinting with a large weapon or Tower shield out and perhaps jumping should reduce that ability to make huge swings repeatedly. (they can run with fists out to get up to battle on TO maps with a long run).

    On the other hand the Chase mechanic is really just needed for just one gametype because of the need to eliminate all players. As long as the MAA and Vanguard can sprint as fast an archer for as long as an archer (I would prefer this be mostly confined to MAA just to diversify the battlefield) there is little reason to have chase. Heck you could make chase MAA only to solidify that class. Vanguards will almost always have a ranged weapon at their disposal in the third slot and the charge can make up for some ground.

    The best way to deal with the situation then where you have a knight and an archer finishing a round of team elimination is to change the endgame mechanic. TF2 style would solve it. An objective unlocks with say a minute to go and the one that captures it can force a win without killing the other. Make it so that it can be captured without becoming an archery target and there is your viable alternative. Simple.

    On the other hand, the glory of the chase system is that you never feel like you can’t handle a situation even if you are disadvantaged as a class. Making the class truly role specific will just result in everyone playing the middle class that can handle the most situation and no one will specialize…and everyone will get pissed at archers even more.



  • Agreed. The TF2 ending rule would be great.



  • @Misnomer:

    I think there is an absurdity in the sprint/chase mechanics anyway. How is it that stamina cannot be tied to these?

    Sprinting Knight should drain his stamina. No reason to deprive sprint 100%, but sprinting with a large weapon or Tower shield out and perhaps jumping should reduce that ability to make huge swings repeatedly. (they can run with fists out to get up to battle on TO maps with a long run).

    On the other hand the Chase mechanic is really just needed for just one gametype because of the need to eliminate all players. As long as the MAA and Vanguard can sprint as fast an archer for as long as an archer (I would prefer this be mostly confined to MAA just to diversify the battlefield) there is little reason to have chase. Heck you could make chase MAA only to solidify that class. Vanguards will almost always have a ranged weapon at their disposal in the third slot and the charge can make up for some ground.

    The best way to deal with the situation then where you have a knight and an archer finishing a round of team elimination is to change the endgame mechanic. TF2 style would solve it. An objective unlocks with say a minute to go and the one that captures it can force a win without killing the other. Make it so that it can be captured without becoming an archery target and there is your viable alternative. Simple.

    On the other hand, the glory of the chase system is that you never feel like you can’t handle a situation even if you are disadvantaged as a class. Making the class truly role specific will just result in everyone playing the middle class that can handle the most situation and no one will specialize…and everyone will get pissed at archers even more.

    You sound like a guy that hates playing against knights. Every solution you gave to your problem would hinder the knight to being useless. They’re slow as hell already. Every other class can dance in and out of his range pretty easily if they know what they’re doing.

    You want sprint to drain his stamina, fine. But this should apply to all classes. It won’t happen because it detracts from the fast paced action that the devs want in their game.

    Everybody sprints, but you want to make it so that they can’t sprint as much. What will happen is that people will sprint and realize they’re running out of stamina in fights. What’s the point? It’ll just be less fun.

    The chase mechanic is to help get you a kill that’s running away like a little bitch. Uhhh. It works. Sometimes. It’s not a guarantee. Take away the knights ability to move effectively within his own boundaries and you have a gimped meat shield. Not a knight.


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