I hate friendly archers more than enemy ones!



  • I’ll tell you what really cooks my meatballs:

    By far my biggest source of frustration in this game comes from “friendly” archers. I’ve just about given up on attacking on TO maps because of them.
    You see, there seems to have been a huge increase in the amount of arrow-chucking buffoons in the past few days, and this has meant one simple thing:
    Often, half the team is made up of useless archers who frequently don’t even leave the spawn when they’re meant to be on the offensive. These archers usually can’t hit the broad side of a barn. In fact, when they try to, they’ll miss the barn by a few dozen meters and somehow hit a team mate in the back.
    Because of these half-baked Legolassies, the people on the team who actually attack (including actually good archers) are woefully outnumbered and can barely get halfway to whatever their objective is.
    I can’t be the only one experiencing this. I think in my past 5 rounds of Hillside, I haven’t seen Agatha get past the Pyre. On Stoneshill I always try to be the king, but I never get to because the bloody Masons are too rubbish at pushing their ram!



  • When you have friendly archers camping on top of the spawnramp (safe from melee), just kick 'em down and feel the rage.



  • “What really cooks my meatballs” is an odd saying, since that’s what you want to happen. Why would you want raw meatballs?

    Unless you mean YOUR meatballs as in….I guess it makes more sense that there would be discomfort/displeasure.

    But yeah, teammate arching firing into your back is very frustrating. Especially on a small arena map of last team standing.



  • @poiuasd:

    When you have friendly archers camping on top of the spawnramp (safe from melee), just kick 'em down and feel the rage.

    I’ve done that before, it only makes their team attacks go from accidental to deliberate. Which is good, because if they actively try to hit you they’re more likely to miss!



  • join a clan if you want to play TO.



  • I try to be one of those archers who actually spends time at the cart or on the trebuchet. I like to follow the melee action and shoot from close range so that I don’t hit allies and I’m more likely to hit enemies. I’m also not shy at all about meleeing and often get as many or more kills with the cudgel than with the bow.

    But it takes time to learn how to play an archer, and some of the garbage archers out there are simply new. It isn’t like picking up a 2handed weapon and swinging wildly - archery takes a lot of practice, both in terms of the skill set and the mentality of being a vulnerable little twerp with quilted armor and a kitchen knife to back you up in melee. It takes experience to get over the preconceptions we learn from TV and movies about archers who hang far in the back lines and blot out the sun with arrows - Chivalry just doesn’t work that way.

    So, I think there’s this illusion that a certain percentage of archers are, and always will be crap, when in fact there is a constant supply of new players, and thus there will always be green archers still learning the ropes. But they are making progress (and hopefully those who just aren’t cut out for it will eventually find a class that suits them) and if they stick with it they’ll get to that comfy place where they’re softening up the vanguards who are about to charge you, dropping enemy archers before they have a chance to fire on you, running up with secondary drawn to even the odds when you get outnumbered, and learning when it’s safe to follow you to the objective to help you hold it.

    @soamd:

    @poiuasd:

    When you have friendly archers camping on top of the spawnramp (safe from melee), just kick 'em down and feel the rage.

    I’ve done that before, it only makes their team attacks go from accidental to deliberate. Which is good, because if they actively try to hit you they’re more likely to miss!

    Yeah, I don’t really care for being kicked in the back by some knight or vanguard who thinks he knows more about good shooting angles than I do. I won’t deliberately shoot a teammate over that, but I will neglect to help them out. The last thing I want to do is fire into their fight and accidentally hit them - then it looks like I’m trying to get revenge, or that their hatred for archers is justified. I want no part of that crap spiral.



  • Archers are fine in general except for the fact that there are a lot of archers who spend more time sinking arrows in their teammates than in their enemies.



  • @poiuasd:

    Archers are fine in general except for the fact that there are a lot of archers who spend more time sinking arrows in their teammates than in their enemies.

    Does anyone here really take more damage from friendly arrows as compared to swords? Because I spend about half my play time as a man at arms, and I’d estimate that about 95% of my TK deaths are from knights and vanguards. What am I doing differently?



  • @stickytape:

    -snip-

    You’re my favorite deputy. Whenever I come across a smart archer, I always try to sandwich enemies with allies for backstab oppritunites and to lay the pressure on him, though there’s the occasional dope who thinks trying to draw his bow when I’m 5 feet away getting clobbered by a berserker instead of getting a free backstab is the best solution.



  • A lot of people play archer because they haven’t played the class before or very much and they are just working on unlocking weapons and items… they tend to just fire at will because all they are doing is skilling.



  • i most of the time carry a shield in my back just for friendly archers ….



  • Good friendly archers are great. They are never dumb enough to shoot into a melee fight risking TK or even team damage, and always focus on taking down enemy archers first (which are both easier kills and more helpful towards the team). As a Vanguard who can get quickly shut down by 2 or more good archers on the enemy team, I appreciate having good archers on my team.



  • A good archer can shoot into clusters of friendlies and enemies and hit enemies.

    I joined a TO server on Stones Hill last night on offense and my team were getting demolished by 3 archers up on the battlements. The two archers already on my team were jerking each other off somewhere so I took it upon myself to swap to Warbow + Broadhead.

    At at least three different points I threaded the needle through two or more teammates to kill an enemy Javelineer.

    Went on a tear and killed the same three archers on the battlements four times each, got accused of aimbotting and hacking, and then they tried to votekick me.



  • I shoot into melee all the time. It isn’t my favourite pastime as an archer (I’d say the priority goes: shooting archers > shooting guys running up from their spawn > shooting into melee) but with practice and obsessive caution you can reliably avoid hitting allies. I almost never hit allies, though my rate of fire drops significantly as I wait for just the right shot, and I miss a lot while erring on the side of caution. Still, arrows can quickly end protracted duels - so swiftly that if they look like they’re having fun, I often just let 'em go at it. ^__^

    The trick is to anticipate, anticipate, anticipate. Most people stick to the same sort of combat routine, over and over, and members of each class tend to have certain similar behaviours, too. If you can anticipate and adapt, you’ll rack up kills and assists pretty steadily. For example, knights with secondary weapons out tend to circle a lot, rather than move back and forth the way pokey vanguards and knights who favour overheads with stout weapons (maul, great/pole axe, etc) do. Against those who circle as they duel: wait until they’re moving either towards or away from you (for some reason I prefer away) and then fire; they’ll essentially be stationary at that point, and your ally won’t be in the line of fire. For those who move back and forth, either aim behind them as they backpeddle and let them walk into the shot, or wait until they’ve backed off and are about to rush forward for a poke or overhead, at which point you peg them. You always want to be ~90 degrees off to your ally’s side, and if he has a shield, preferably try to be to your ally’s left and your opponent’s right, that way if your aim sucks (like maybe your cat picked that moment to try to nap on your keyboard) there’s at least a chance you’ll just hit your buddy’s shield.

    I LOVE it when my allies are calm and aware enough to position themselves where I can get clean shots. It takes a lot of experience and confidence to worry about something like that while you’re in the middle of dueling a guy who wants nothing more than to hack your head off, so major kudos to those who can manage it. If I can find a reliable ally like that, I’m sure to follow him around, softening up all his targets for him for as long as I can.

    I tend not to bother shooting at MAA that are in duels, though; dodge makes them too unpredictable, and they have such weak armor that most of the damage I’ll deal is “wasted” when they can be 1-shot by so many weapons anyway. If I shoot a MAA and my knight buddy overheads him with a maul, the maul would have killed him at full health anyway, so why did I bother?

    The absolute best thing is pegging a vanguard during his recovery animation after a charge. Most of them just sort of sit there for about two seconds, and the best thing is that their heads are nice and low, so even if you aim for the head and your shot gets there late, it’s still probably going to hit him in the torso. Also, your ally probably either blocked and was pushed back a nice, safe distance where they’re out of your shot, or they sidestepped the attack entirely, in which case same diff. After that it’s a matter of rushing up with your secondary for that sweet, sweet backstab.



  • @stickytape:

    […]The absolute best thing is pegging a vanguard during his recovery animation after a charge. Most of them just sort of sit there for about two seconds, and the best thing is that their heads are nice and low, so even if you aim for the head and your shot gets there late, it’s still probably going to hit him in the torso.[…]

    Awesome post, but this part. How exactly do you do that when they just end up warping around on the ground? It’s easy if the hit something/are blocked, but when they whiff a leap they slide around all buggily, which makes it quite hard to shoot them, especially since part of the animation involves body movement, mostly the head going down and up and the back bending which further complicates things.



  • @Daiyuki:

    @stickytape:

    […]The absolute best thing is pegging a vanguard during his recovery animation after a charge. Most of them just sort of sit there for about two seconds, and the best thing is that their heads are nice and low, so even if you aim for the head and your shot gets there late, it’s still probably going to hit him in the torso.[…]

    Awesome post, but this part. How exactly do you do that when they just end up warping around on the ground? It’s easy if the hit something/are blocked, but when they whiff a leap they slide around all buggily, which makes it quite hard to shoot them, especially since part of the animation involves body movement, mostly the head going down and up and the back bending which further complicates things.

    Yeah, this is why I only felt safe saying that “most of them” just sort of sit there. And maybe it isn’t even most of them; sometimes they slide around (which I think is silly) and sometimes they don’t. I’m unclear if it’s the difference between the sword swings and the polearm stabs - maybe one does it and the other doesnt?

    At any rate, I agree that the sliding can be tricky, but it still isn’t that much motion if you’re fairly close to them. I find they also don’t move as much if their attack is parried (this is all assuming they aren’t attacking you, they’re attacking an ally or a filthy peasant or something), and you can usually predict if they’re going to be parried by judging how close they are when they use the attack. When I see them charging someone, especially if that someone is aware and seems to be ready for it, I’ll try to time the draw of my bow so that I’m ready to fire once the attack animation begins, yet still have enough aiming time to zero in. I find this is often easiest with the crossbow, as you don’t have the pressure of a time limit on aiming.



  • @stickytape:

    @poiuasd:

    Archers are fine in general except for the fact that there are a lot of archers who spend more time sinking arrows in their teammates than in their enemies.

    Does anyone here really take more damage from friendly arrows as compared to swords? Because I spend about half my play time as a man at arms, and I’d estimate that about 95% of my TK deaths are from knights and vanguards. What am I doing differently?

    Nothing. I don’t know why people are complaining about friendly fire from archers, because melee by far cause more friendly damage. I think I take more damage from my own team than I do from the enemy.



  • @stickytape:

    At any rate, I agree that the sliding can be tricky, but it still isn’t that much motion if you’re fairly close to them. I find they also don’t move as much if their attack is parried (this is all assuming they aren’t attacking you, they’re attacking an ally or a filthy peasant or something), and you can usually predict if they’re going to be parried by judging how close they are when they use the attack. When I see them charging someone, especially if that someone is aware and seems to be ready for it, I’ll try to time the draw of my bow so that I’m ready to fire once the attack animation begins, yet still have enough aiming time to zero in. I find this is often easiest with the crossbow, as you don’t have the pressure of a time limit on aiming.

    I don’t think it happens on the polearm leaps, no, but I always prefer it if they’re charging me. Easy headshot because even if they’ve been zigging and zagging like crazy, which isn’t super effective if I’m on my game, they’re going to have to leap at you if they want to kill you, so you just flick your aim up a little and pow, Warbow bodkin to the cranium. So satisfying.
    @Holycannoli:

    […]I think I take more damage from my own team than I do from the enemy.

    People who say this annoy me to no end because it’s blatantly untrue. It’s usually bads who are going 3-14 that start complaining in-game too. Check your Damage Taken stat in the bottom right when you hold Tab. Now subtract let’s say 12 arrows worth of friendly damage, which is a lot of times to be hit by friendly arrows.

    If you are a Vanguard and they are Warbow Bodkins, you’re taking 42 damage of friendly fire. 42 x 12= 504 damage
    I’ll be extremely generous and say you have ~1500 damage taken (it’s probably higher).
    1500-500 = 1000 enemy damage, twice as much as you took from the archers that were hitting your back all the time.
    I’ve never personally been hit even nearly as many as 12 times by friendly arrows, so all of these numbers are heavily skewed towards your position of “I take more friendly damage than enemy damage” and yet enemy damage is still twice as high.

    Stop spouting hyperbolic nonsense.



  • Whatever. I take more damage from my team’s melee than from the enemy, and I couldn’t care less if you don’t believe me. I don’t often take damage from my team’s archers, or if I do I don’t notice it because I’m busy getting hit by lmb spam.

    Would be nice to have a Team Damage Taken or Friendly Fire Taken stat though.



  • I hate people who hit me. To be honest I am rarely hit/teamkilled by friendly archers. Most often I die/take hits from people in melee (most commonly vanguards and knights with two handed weapons) combat and I rarely see people who rage against melee classes (and it’s mostly when they TK a lot). For some reason it’s the archers who take most of the heat even for a single misfired arrow.