The Fork



  • For quite a while now I’ve heard people comment on how the Fork is one of the weakest weapons in the Vanguard arsenal right now. While the Billhook was in a very similar position before the beta patch, it’s since received a suite of buffs to bring it in line with its two counterparts. However, the Fork has since received no attention.

    After hearing so much flak about this weapon, I decided to try it out more extensively. A trip to Martin’s spreadsheet enlightened me to the notion that the Fork, uniquely, was reliant on the upper stab, as it was faster at a mere loss of 2 damage.

    However, even taking this into account, I still can’t see the point of using this weapon. Its already poor reach, combined with reliance on a short attack, along with very subpar damage means the Fork seems like an incredibly weak pick.

    Maybe the silence over the Fork means I’m missing something. Maybe competitive players make excellent use of the weapon. But that’s why I made this thread; I’d like the community to discuss the Fork and decide whether or not it’s underpowered or not.



  • The only upside is the speed, is the fastest weapon of the vanguard, the rest, downsides.
    I wouldn’t say its underpowered, it depends on your playstyle.



  • I was going to make a post about it too. It feels underwhelming compared to other weapons



  • Those middle column weapons XD



  • You forgot you cannot combo with it, which is a big disadvantage. It is not fast. At least not faster thana greatsword/claymore (share 0.5 windup). You need 3 hits versus maa if you don’t hit the head. I think that says it all. A medium speed weapon with good/mediocre range and very low damage on the worst class? Could be viable on a maa(I would still take the dane axe over it any day), but on a vanguard this weapon is pointless. Vanguard lives from his superior weapons. Without them he is worthless. (Same reason why a vanguard with dane axe is just fodder for a maa with dane axe, or imagine a maa with a halberd…)



  • @Falc:

    You forgot you cannot combo with it, which is a big disadvantage.

    This is consistent with all other spear type weapons. However, you make other good points about Vanguard’s “superior weapons.”

    I want to mostly compare the Fork to the other spears, as the Spear and Brandistock are in fairly good spots right now.

    I’m still a little mixed about this weapon. I can’t consistently do well with it. Sometimes I do, but that doesn’t seem terribly convincing, and I’m certain my performance with the Brandistock would be far better. This is of course entirely subjective, though I’d like to hear about how other players do with the Fork, especially ones with an affinity for quick weapons and spears.

    That said, there are varying degrees of imbalances. I think the Fork is slightly underpowered. A damage increase of 5 and/or a decrease of .05 in speeds would probably do the trick, though I’m not sure.



  • Apologies, again this spreadsheet is currently using Beta values and the Pitchfork would normally 2 hit MAAs. I do however, agree, that a speed buff is in order.



  • I want to see the Fork get the unique ability to combo stabs together, that would make it a truly interesting weapon.

    On a somewhat related note, I’d also like to see javelins able to combo the stab and shield punch.



  • I’ve come against some very good Fork players who mostly get the upper hand on other vanguards. I’ve also seen a spear-vanguard be completely invulnerable against a halberd-vanguard at the end of a LTS 1 v 1 - the fight went for about 1min with the halberd-vangaurd trying to hit the spear-vanguard and the spear-vanguard blocking and laughing in his face till he decided to end the halberd-man’s humiliation.



  • I just came from a 2 hour vanguard session, I only used spears. I really really like the Spear and Brandistock - they are different weapons with enough different platystyle, you use them similarly but you can feel they are not the same. The same happens with the Fork, but unfortunately, it’s simply inefficient compared to the other two. What you can do with the Fork, the other can generally do better. The range and damage drawbacks are too big for the small attack speed boost.

    I would recommend a small damage and attack speed buff, so that the damage difference is not so big and so you can play it differently since it’s shorter and noticeably faster, but still a spear. A little bit more attack speed could totally transform this weapon, damage is ok but it’s harder to hit people because of low range :)



  • @OmmNomNom:

    I just came from a 2 hour vanguard session, I only used spears. I really really like the Spear and Brandistock - they are different weapons with enough different platystyle, you use them similarly but you can feel they are not the same. The same happens with the Fork, but unfortunately, it’s simply inefficient compared to the other two. What you can do with the Fork, the other can generally do better. The range and damage drawbacks are too big for the small attack speed boost.

    I would recommend a small damage and attack speed buff, so that the damage difference is not so big and so you can play it differently since it’s shorter and noticeably faster, but still a spear. A little bit more attack speed could totally transform this weapon, damage is ok but it’s harder to hit people because of low range :)

    Please don’t take this the wrong way, but did you rely on secondary attack (lower stab) or tertiary attack (upper stab)? As I mentioned before, the Fork was clearly intended to rely on the upper stab, which is a good thing as it makes it unique, but is also a bad thing (since it lowers the range of an already pitifully short weapon, and for little reward).

    You can only really be successful at all with the Fork if you know this. The secondary stab is for when you simply must stay at range, but it’s far less effective overall.

    I’d like to see the Fork remain as reliant on the upper stab. But it still needs a buff in some way, maybe even an extension of the model (range buff) to compensate for that. Although then that would mean all the spears would have comparable ranges…

    Which, honestly, might not be a problem; their playstyles could still be different. Although arguably, there’s very little difference in playstyle between the Spear and Brandistock…



  • There is no reason to use the fork. Jack of all trades…

    Vanguard with a bstock/spear is THE support machine.
    The bstock hits like a truck…has abysmal range…therefore is slow.
    The spear comes in second really close behind IMHO.

    I figured out this game is about killing your opponents. Shortly after that I figured out that willingly nerfing myself with a fork doesn’t help at that :-) Just too low DPS.
    The fork lacks any outstanding features IMO. Never ever gonna use it.



  • I use the fork over the spear and brandistock and I typically do pretty well with it. Not sure whether it’s my play style or the way the animation clicks for me, but I’ve certainly done worse with other weapons.



  • Fork really needs a buff.
    It sacrifices too much range and damage for insufficient gain in speed.
    You’re better off picking the fastest weapon of the sword or polearm classes as you’ll do more damage and be able to combo.

    According to the google doc on damage charts and swing times, the fork has a release time for slash and overhead respectively of 0.6 and 0.4.
    In contrast, the spear (which does more damage and has longer range) has 0.4 and 0.4.
    That doesn’t look right.

    Anyway, fork needs more speed.



  • By the way, SlyGoat’s been snooping around mentioning how he wants the Fork to combo, as a way to address its weakness and to make it more unique. I’d like to open some discussion on this idea (since we all seem to agree the weapon needs a buff).

    As a counterargument, I would posit this is a relatively inconsistent change with how other weapons are/should be dealt with. You can’t allow the Hunting Knife the ability to combo, for example. The Billhook was granted Even More speed, and this seems to have done the trick. The same was done with the Bearded Axe, and it’s become a monstrous weapon (though possibly too good).

    Would it be a better idea to be consistent, and just give the Fork some basic stat buffs (speed, possibly damage), or should we let this spear weapon combo? I feel this would be made more consistent if the Vanguard was given a quarterstaff (since in war, staves were used like spears) this would be another “spear” that can combo, though its animations might more resemble polearms. This would have the side effect of giving him a blunt option.

    @Carl:

    I use the fork over the spear and brandistock and I typically do pretty well with it. Not sure whether it’s my play style or the way the animation clicks for me, but I’ve certainly done worse with other weapons.

    I’ve been using the Fork lately, as I’ve mentioned, and have gotten quite good with it. However, it stands to reason that if a competent Fork user were to use a Brandistock, Claymore, or really any other polearm, he would do better.

    I do think the Fork deserves slight buffs first, which is why I’m worried about giving it combos. That might push it over the edge, or it might not do much at all for it.



  • I think the fork is quite balanced for what is is. Its actually really useful against the brandistock. Its fast and only requires an extra hit to kill.

    I thought it was useless at first but then I learnt to use it. And its charge attack does more damage than the over two spears. Strangely enough. According to martins spreadsheet.



  • @lemonater47:

    I think the fork is quite balanced for what is is. Its actually really useful against the brandistock. Its fast and only requires an extra hit to kill.

    I thought it was useless at first but then I learnt to use it. And its charge attack does more damage than the over two spears. Strangely enough. According to martins spreadsheet.

    Fork is 95, Spear is 100, Brandistock is 90. I always did think sprint attack damage values were wonky; sometimes they give no damage boost, sometimes they give a penalty.

    Anyway, I agree that the Fork is pretty good. It’s not that underpowered, which is why I only ask for a very slight buff.



  • If it was a choice between increasing the speed or allowing it to combo, I vote for speed.
    A comboable fork kind of feels like it’s treading into (post buff) billhook territory .



  • @Sir:

    If it was a choice between increasing the speed or allowing it to combo, I vote for speed.
    A comboable fork kind of feels like it’s treading into (post buff) billhook territory .

    Agreed…



  • @Sir:

    If it was a choice between increasing the speed or allowing it to combo, I vote for speed.
    A comboable fork kind of feels like it’s treading into (post buff) billhook territory .

    Billhook can’t chain stabs together. That would be the Fork’s distinct niche. Also, billhook is terrible for comboing. .8 second combo windup - the slowest of all the polearms. For reference, the maul is .85. The Billhook shines when it’s used for single attacks, because it (now) has a quick windup, release and recovery.


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