The Halberd



  • Probably one of my most favourite weapons. Very fun to use. However, we all know that there is something wrong with it. Let´s discuss that!

    From my personal experience playing against this weapon is a nightmare. The stab animation seems too static to tell whether the enemy is feinting or not. I also noticed that when I´m face-hugging a vanguard with the halberd and try to parry the stab it´s nearly impossible. I think that´s all because the hitbox of the weapon is actually “in you”. In your character model so it connects pretty much instantly.
    Then we have the mighty extremely fast overhead-downlooking attack. It connects unrealistically fast because the wooden shaft counts as the blade. Hate to say it….but that´s bullshit :D . It should not do the full damage at least.

    Suggestions:

    1. Make a realistic hitbox of the halberd. The overhead does it´s full damage when hit with the tip of the weapon. When close it does very little damage and won´t cancel attacks.

    2. Make the halberd present on the battlefield. Players cannot pass through it and incoming players that touch the spike get a bit of damage. This would create new strategies for the vanguard as a kill-zone creator. The vanguard could get stuck with his weapon in narrow spaces which would emphasize the need for a secondary.

    Share your experiences and suggestions to fix our beloved halberd, please :-) !!



  • I would like for the model to switch up with the billhook. Currently, the halberd is ungodly long, while the bill hook is more similar to the poleaxe in length.

    This is historically backwards (generally speaking). Giving the Halberd more damage than the bill hook AND more reach means it is essentially superior. Shorten the Halberd and lengthen the billhook, I say.



  • The halberd is getting a slight nerf in the next patch. I think they are adding time to the stab and lowering its lateral slash damage a bit. Can’t be certain but I’ve also heard it mentioned that they are making the animation easier to spot, but maybe that just means slowing it down.

    A lot of people are mentioning how polearm weapons should not do damage unless the end of the weapon hits, and I say that I have to agree; hitting someone with the wooden handle wouldn’t do very much damage, and it may even splinter the the handle. I always laugh a little when I LMB a spear and I see blood :P. Polearms/axes are effectively “very long swords.”

    This topic has been posted many times, but hey, squeaky wheel gets the grease, right?



  • I posted a good solution to this problem in another thread:
    @giantyak:

    If you hold a pole arm horizontal to the ground and strike with the pole to the face its going to do a massive amount of damage. A good solution would be if overhead did minimal damage at close quarter range but that you could then use this alternative attack in close quarters. This would change nothing in regard to balance, but the change in animation would satisfy peoples need to see/visualise a realistic solution.
    To be honest a slightly modified pole arm block animation would look half decent for this attack.

    Wood is not as weak as you think - its not going to splinter on striking someone, you’ve seen too many movies… TB should see if they can get a Mythbusters special to bust all the hollywood bs. That would be a good marketing ploy for TB too :) The only problem with mythbusters is that they never do any research, so many of their experiments have confounded results.



  • My only real problem with the halberd these days is that the stab animation doesn’t look fluid to me. Granted, I lag a lot (a lot, like down to 3-5 fps in melee in a big room), but sometimes it feels like the stab animation only has one or two frames, and that I can take damage from it even after the weapon’s forward momentum appears to have stopped. Basically, it’s really hard to judge when to parry it.

    I used to have a lot more difficulty with the instant overheads when in very close quarters, but I’ve adjusted to this… by never getting in close quarters with a halberd vanguard unless I’m waaaay off to his flank, humping his leg.

    Really curious to see how the weapon feels when it’s changed; I anticipate I’ll actually die a little more often at first, as I get used to the new timings, but hopefully it’ll be better for all parties in the long run.



  • @Nikephoros:

    I would like for the model to switch up with the billhook. Currently, the halberd is ungodly long, while the bill hook is more similar to the poleaxe in length.

    This is historically backwards (generally speaking). Giving the Halberd more damage than the bill hook AND more reach means it is essentially superior. Shorten the Halberd and lengthen the billhook, I say.

    I absolutely agree with you. Since nobody uses the billhook now anyways there would be an incentive to do so. :-)



  • I think reach, speed and damage when stabbing could use some polishing. Other than that it seems to be fine.



  • @funthomass:

    @Nikephoros:

    I would like for the model to switch up with the billhook. Currently, the halberd is ungodly long, while the bill hook is more similar to the poleaxe in length.

    This is historically backwards (generally speaking). Giving the Halberd more damage than the bill hook AND more reach means it is essentially superior. Shorten the Halberd and lengthen the billhook, I say.

    I absolutely agree with you. Since nobody uses the billhook now anyways there would be an incentive to do so. :-)

    The Billhook has since been buffed to potency. The only problem I foresee with the Halberd is its stab still outclassing the spears, since it’s still faster, does more damage, and can be comboed, all at a comparable range.

    Arguably, the Billhook may start doing the same thing, but at least it has fairly poor reach.



  • Next patch buffs the scroll wheel damage of all spears. It slows down the halberd stab time by 0.5 seconds. It also reduces the net damage of the halberd slash from 75 to 65. It moves the hotbox to where it is supposed to be and the stab animation for all pole arms is made easier to see. Not that I had any problems killing someone with who was using a halberd. When I use a halberd people tend to be really stupid. They don’t even try to block you.



  • @lemonater47:

    It slows down the halberd stab time by 0.5 seconds.

    0.05 :)



  • @lemonater47:

    Next patch buffs the scroll wheel damage of all spears.

    Where’d you see that? I don’t see it in Martin’s spreadsheet, but if it’s true then I’m going to be very excited.



  • @NikolaiLev:

    @lemonater47:

    Next patch buffs the scroll wheel damage of all spears.

    Where’d you see that? I don’t see it in Martin’s spreadsheet, but if it’s true then I’m going to be very excited.

    Oops my bad I was referring to the last patch notes and these ones. Spears were buffed LAST patch. My bad, abuse me all you want.

    Halberd is still getting nerfed and fixed though don’t you worry. Billhook is being buffed a bit too. The bilhook is now the shorter, faster version of the halberd.

    Spears do a lot of bloody stab damage though blimey. The brandistock does an overhand stab of 90. But it also has the least charge damage out of the 3, strangely enough.



  • More and more ppl. refuse to use the halberd…simply knowing of its strengths.
    Love the weapon but also ignore it completely.

    Be a cool kid - Brandistock and swords all the way. HA!

    Next patch will fix these things.



  • I agree with last poster. The halberd is simply too good right now, to a point that it feels cheap. I explain why in this thread:

    viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8709&start=10

    I look forward to the upcoming adjustments, and they seems sensible. Nerfs should be made in small steps, so lets see if the next patch make the halberd a little less prevalent before demanding radical changes in the game mechanics.



  • Well I have to throw in my 2 cents worth….

    First off a little history. This is two fold in reality and in game. In reality I used to do live weapons demos at regional Renaissance Festivals. I have fought with almost every weapon in the game for over 8 + years. We had 6 Halberds. These were very fast and very heavy. They were the only weapons we would choreograph the fights because of how potentially lethal they were. These weapons were made of a very hardwood shaft and much like the one in chiv, had metal straps that secured the head in place. I have been hit with the shaft and let me tell you that if it was full speed it would have snapped my forearm like a twig. So to say the shaft would not do as much damage is a misnomer because of its blunt damage force. There is a reason why staffs were made of Oak because a hardwood could block many sword blows without splintering, this was also used with halberds. So again they could take lots of damage, even more with the metal straps.

    Now that base of many Halberds had a small spear point. This was used to stick into the ground and the axe and spear point, pointed against cavalry. It was also used as a second attack weapon. Point being the halberd did lots of damage from all points of the weapon.

    The second history is in game. I played primarily Halberd in Age of Chivalry since 2007, the base mod before Chiv. The Devs nerfed Halberd twice in both major patches to the point where literally no one played it except a hand full of us die-hards. While I died more so than any other class, but I had more kills than most because those of us that played it, mastered it. Usually, I would have to have to take on more than one up too 5v1 and could walk away victorious. This is not the case with CHIV, it is much harder to take on 2v1 let alone 5v1 but much of it transfers over from AOC so I have been able to be victorious in 5v1 but then I get vote kicked for cheating. Currently I am a ranked level 42.

    Now considering all that I want to add in than a good MAA, and even a good melee archer can easily take out a halberd along with the knight and the dreaded Norse sword. I fail to see what the big deal is with the Halberd. Everyone knows it has crazy range, keep your ass out of it and learn when to sneak in and spam. Those players that learned those skills can easily take out a halberd even with the look-down overhead and stab combo. The skilled players can block anything I can throw at them. So I don’t see it being overpowered because higher level skilled players have no problems killing me.

    Noob players would just whine and complain against a higher skilled player till they got it nerfed instead of getting better against it. This is exactly what happened in AOC with the second nerfing of the Halberd. Not only did they nerf the Halberd but the boosted everything else, breaking the class. AKA this thread is a perfect example. And again, instead of forcing players to learn new skills and tactics they are breaking out the nerf hammer. On top of this, instead of nerfing 1 thing and testing it they are nerfing 3. Ugh par for the course. In AOC the second nerf killed the class the only real advantage was that it could 1 shot gay archer in the face. Man I miss that… Only time will tell if this is a noob friendly balance or if it will kill the class.

    I for one am very sad that the noob whining has succeeded and the first nerf is happening. I will still play it and I predict that I will still pwn with it until they nerf it again, which I am sure they will… History repeating itself…



  • To the last poster:

    As it stands right now, the halberd in this game is nothing like it’s counterpart in AoC.
    There is no ‘extra skill required’ to achieve it’s maximum effectiveness.

    It is overpowered because it is essentially a spear with the ability to combo.

    Yes, there are plenty of examples of players beating halberds. I’ve killed a few rank 20 halberd users with fists in duels - none of this takes away from the fact that the halberd’s range & damage stats make it able to the job of any of the spear weapons and more.

    Also you can talk about how effective and deadly the halberd was in real life all you want but this is a game and ultimately realism takes a backseat to gameplay and balance.



  • @Sir:

    To the last poster:

    As it stands right now, the halberd in this game is nothing like it’s counterpart in AoC.
    There is no ‘extra skill required’ to achieve it’s maximum effectiveness.

    It is overpowered because it is essentially a spear with the ability to combo.

    Yes, there are plenty of examples of players beating halberds. I’ve killed a few rank 20 halberd users with fists in duels - none of this takes away from the fact that the halberd’s range & damage stats make it able to the job of any of the spear weapons and more.

    Also you can talk about how effective and deadly the halberd was in real life all you want but this is a game and ultimately realism takes a backseat to gameplay and balance.

    lols you are smokin crack if you think it is nothing like the AOC counterpart. It is like AOC halberd plus and the block actually works.

    Your explanation for it being OP is a weak argument since it doesn’t have the range or the speed of the spear, it is close but still very different. The main reason people have problems against a good Halberd is the overhead second swing in the combo being an uppercut that is hard to see and block. This leads the noobs to cry about not seeing any animation and being killed too fast. It is because they dont see the upper cut. That doesn’t make it OP it makes players ignorant and bitchy.

    The reality part was to give a sense of of reality and that the Halberd was the last incarnation of developed polearms before gunpowder took over because it was so powerful. I understand game balance but I would argue that it is pretty balanced. If you want to bitch about OP look at archers….



  • The Halberd is not as sick overpowered as most people claims it is, altough it needs a slightly nerf to both make it balanced with the other polearms, and for the Halberd to not entirely taking over the spears job. I also think that the animations need to be changed. The attack animations are the thing that makes the halberd seem so powerful, the stab anim is very hard to notice before it hits you.



  • @wildwulfy:

    The Halberd is not as sick overpowered as most people claims it is, altough it needs a slightly nerf to both make it balanced with the other polearms, and for the Halberd to not entirely taking over the spears job. I also think that the animations need to be changed. The attack animations are the thing that makes the halberd seem so powerful, the stab anim is very hard to notice before it hits you.

    Completely agree with you. And they developers aren’t being stupid like dice. They are taking it down slightly. Dice over neferd weapons and thy became the most useless weapon ever. Take the famas when it was first nerfed. I found it a little OP but they made so it was unusable so they had to buff it again.

    The hotbox for the halberd is actually behind the point of the weapon. And is a bit wide as well but that’s the same as javelins and the rest of that family of polearms, but they don’t do much stab damage.

    A fix of the hit box and the speed a little slower and its fine. It was in real life such an effective weapon. It doubled as a spear and an axe. Perfect for all roles. It survived until the mid 18th century when guns were taking over and muskets had better bayonets and cavalry units were shrinking.



  • @Retsnom:

    Your explanation for it being OP is a weak argument since it doesn’t have the range or the speed of the spear, it is close but still very different. The main reason people have problems against a good Halberd is the overhead second swing in the combo being an uppercut that is hard to see and block. This leads the noobs to cry about not seeing any animation and being killed too fast. It is because they dont see the upper cut. That doesn’t make it OP it makes players ignorant and bitchy.

    The reality part was to give a sense of of reality and that the Halberd was the last incarnation of developed polearms before gunpowder took over because it was so powerful. I understand game balance but I would argue that it is pretty balanced. If you want to bitch about OP look at archers….

    From: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … TZnc#gid=1

    The spear’s secondary stab deals 70 pierce damage at a .70 windup, .40 release, and a .75 recovery.

    The halberd’s stab deals 75 pierce damage at a .60 windup (.65 post-nerf, these are beta numbers), .50 release, and a .70 recovery. Further, this weapon can combo, and has further versatility in its ability to deal high SwingBlunt damage and Slash effectively. It even has a better sprint attack, 105 compared to 100.

    These are numbers. The only thing the Spear has over the Halberd is a little bit of range, but the models are otherwise comparable. The Halberd outclasses the Spear at everything the Spear does, even despite being a distinct weapon type. While the Halberd may have been an extremely effective weapon historically speaking, this is not healthy for game balance.

    There are times when “noob whining” sways the opinion of game design, yes. There are also times when players become fixated on an overpowered aspect of a game, and because they are allowed to excel (unduly so) with it, they refuse to see it nerfed. There are two sides to this sort of bias. Please keep that in mind.

    By the way, given your affection for the Halberd, I can only presume you’re a Vanguard main. Considering this, it’s interesting to ponder why you dislike archers so much… :D


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