Question about melee combat.



  • Hello, I am a big fun of all games with interesting melee combat, such as Mount&Blade, Rune, Severance: Blade of Darkness, Age of Chivalry etc. Chivalry:MW looks great, though would be cool to know more about melee fighting :) . After watching and reading I know that player can block, dodge, duck, kick, bash with a shield and make 3 different attacks. Are there going to be something else in game? Are you planning to make second part to “melee basics” video? Thanks. (Sorry for my english)



  • Assuming this game shares the same mechanics as Age of Chivalry, you’ll find while you only have 3 main attacks, you can change directions mid-swing to alter it’s trajectory making for a lot of depth. I play mount and blade as well and their control scheme would not work for this type of first person game. They could probably get away with doing something similar to Jedi Knight/Academy where your weapon strike is altered by which ever WASD key or combination you were holding, but I still think what they had in AoC feels great.



  • Don’t think I’m allowed to say much on this until the developers release a more up to date overview of the combat, but the system is significantly more complex than it was in AoC (of course) and there are some things that have been added or tweaked since the last combat videos. There’s definitely a lot of depth to the combat now and every hit you land or avoid feels satisfying.



  • I have a question myself and maybe someone could answer….

    -Will you be able to form “spear walls” with your teammates = you crouch or stand in a line while holding your spears/halberd and if enemys run into it they die? Or will you have to press the attack/stab button for it? would be awesome to see a line of spear and then they are charged by some knights…



  • @Doevaekin:

    I have a question myself and maybe someone could answer….

    -Will you be able to form “spear walls” with your teammates = you crouch or stand in a line while holding your spears/halberd and if enemys run into it they die? Or will you have to press the attack/stab button for it? would be awesome to see a line of spear and then they are charged by some knights…

    I don’t think the game will include this and I don’t think it’d be as awesome as it sounds in-game :P



  • @Doevaekin:

    I have a question myself and maybe someone could answer….

    -Will you be able to form “spear walls” with your teammates = you crouch or stand in a line while holding your spears/halberd and if enemys run into it they die? Or will you have to press the attack/stab button for it? would be awesome to see a line of spear and then they are charged by some knights…

    You can always poke approaching enemies with the pointy end, that way your spear wall would work. In AoC many clans formed shield walls in maps like Helms Deep or Stoneshill, intended to defend a certain objective or a narrow corridor, and it worked really well.



  • @Wingy:

    You can always poke approaching enemies with the pointy end, that way your spear wall would work. In AoC many clans formed shield walls in maps like Helms Deep or Stoneshill, intended to defend a certain objective or a narrow corridor, and it worked really well.

    Cool looking forward to it :) Imagine epic moments when you’re defending a gate or something and a guy shout over voice-chat: “Tonight we dine in hell!!!” :P



  • I’ve watched the newest gamplay trailers and noticed that there dont seem to be that many
    moves to be used in combat.

    Most of the combat i’ve seen had been a guy using the same Horizontal swing as he trys to get in
    range, and blocking using some universal block that seems to block any attack coming from the enemy.

    Will there be more to the combat system? Will we be able to control the swing of the sword? (perhaps like in jedi academy like an above poster mentioned). Will we have to block in certain directions? or just hold some super easy universal block.



  • @dacoolstas:

    I’ve watched the newest gamplay trailers and noticed that there dont seem to be that many
    moves to be used in combat.

    Most of the combat i’ve seen had been a guy using the same Horizontal swing as he trys to get in
    range, and blocking using some universal block that seems to block any attack coming from the enemy.

    Will there be more to the combat system? Will we be able to control the swing of the sword? (perhaps like in jedi academy like an above poster mentioned). Will we have to block in certain directions? or just hold some super easy universal block.

    The side swing is the easiest swing to land, and the developers aren’t necessarily the best players the game has to offer. Judging the depth of the combat from watching dev gameplay vids is kinda like judging the depth of an FPS by watching dev gameplay vids. “He seems to be missing a lot, is bullet spread really bad in this game?” ;)



  • @SlyGoat:

    @dacoolstas:

    I’ve watched the newest gamplay trailers and noticed that there dont seem to be that many
    moves to be used in combat.

    Most of the combat i’ve seen had been a guy using the same Horizontal swing as he trys to get in
    range, and blocking using some universal block that seems to block any attack coming from the enemy.

    Will there be more to the combat system? Will we be able to control the swing of the sword? (perhaps like in jedi academy like an above poster mentioned). Will we have to block in certain directions? or just hold some super easy universal block.

    The side swing is the easiest swing to land, and the developers aren’t necessarily the best players the game has to offer. Judging the depth of the combat from watching dev gameplay vids is kinda like judging the depth of an FPS by watching dev gameplay vids. “He seems to be missing a lot, is bullet spread really bad in this game?” ;)

    Yet I think we can all agree that by watching an fps video you have this intuitive feeling about the mechanism.
    Now I do hope that this game mechanism are intuitive and accessible.

    BY accessible I mean that you must not wait 150+hour of game play before being able to use an attack efficiently. You should be able to play easily with all the move after only a few hours.
    You should be able to easily play with all game’s mechanism almost from the beginning. Just like chess : you learn to use efficiently all the piece after only an hour, but it will take a lifetime to use them the most wisely possible.

    From what I’ve seen, this game looks accessible for new player. So it’s a good thing.



  • That didn’t really answer the questions at hand. Perhaps being more specific will help.

    Are there other swings then just the right-to-left horizontal?
    How does the blocking system work, is it as simple as just holding a button down or is there more to it?



  • @dacoolstas:

    That didn’t really answer the questions at hand. Perhaps being more specific will help.

    Are there other swings then just the right-to-left horizontal?
    How does the blocking system work, is it as simple as just holding a button down or is there more to it?

    I believe blocking is directional, but you get to control the direction in real time. Witch means you hold the right mouse button and adjust your blocking direction. If you keep holding it you can change the direction when you want, without having to make another click, witch helps immersion.
    This means you can change the position of your blocking as you move the mouse.

    Attack : you click then adjust the direction of your attack, in real time, and you can change it’s direction mid-air if you want.
    This means that you can make a ‘‘Z’’ shaped attack if you want and maybe an ‘‘e’’ shaped attack.

    I would like confirmation from a beta tester : am i right or not?



  • There are three basic attacks - horizontal, vertical and thrust. You can redirect the aim of your attacks in mid-swing, but obviously if you start swinging from left to right you can’t suddenly reverse it, that would defy momentum - you can however expend stamina to pull your swing before momentum builds up, I.E. feinting, to fake your opponent out and make them parry early. Once a swing is complete you can swing again immediately to combo which has a different swing pattern depending on the weapon and attack. For example if you do a vertical swing with a polearm, the first hit will be a downward strike and comboing another vertical attack will strike upwards - thus allowing you to attack in quick succession without returning to idle position and having to ready another strike. The downside to this is if you miss any attack in your combo you’ll not only be left very open but you’ll lose a lot of stamina.

    Blocking (when you saw blocking I assume you’re talking specifically about the using a shield) depends on the shield you’re using. From Buckler to Tower Shield the shields scale fairly linearly - larger shields cover more area and are heavier meaning they absorb more shock and consume less stamina when struck, but are slower to raise and lower and so the light shields will be superior for quick counterattacks while heavier shields will be the best option for more defensive play and tactics like shield walls. With the tower shield you are generally well protected in all areas but can still be shot in the foot if you don’t crouch or aim down - but if course if you aim down you’re leaving your head open which is probably not a great idea. Bucklers cover a very small area and have to be aimed pretty well into an attack while giving archers a decent area to hit you in if they can aim well. One last thing to note about shields is that when you aren’t wielding your shield it will be slung over your back and still protect you from projectiles in the area it covers, but not melee attacks.

    If you aren’t using a shield you can parry with your weapon. You can hold your parry only very briefly as opposed to the shield that can be held up indefinitely, so if you parry too early you’ll take a hit, which makes feinting very effective against parries. Parries also cannot block projectiles. You have to actually parry the enemy’s weapon, of course - if someone is attacking your head and you’re parrying downwards you’ll still take the hit, which makes thrusts difficult to defend against because they can be aimed at practically any part of the body and redirected easily.

    There are a lot more combat actions including kicking, shield bashing, dodging, lunging, etc. that weren’t present in AoC at all as well as the improvements to the core swordplay mechanics. And as always, footwork plays a huge role in the game as well as good team play and positioning in large fights since the game is designed around full friendly fire enabled.



  • @SlyGoat:

    And as always, footwork plays a huge role in the game as well as good team play and positioning in large fights since the game is designed around full friendly fire enabled.

    That’s the part that I don’t like. Friendly fire in a melee game can really interfere in team work experience. It’s obvious.

    Another simply solution would be to simply remove team damaging automatically, simply making your attacks bounce off your ally without any harmful effects - this could still be put into use in combat, because if you accidentally hit a friend instead of your enemy, you’ll be at the same disadvantage as if you missed your swing entirely, leaving you open for your enemy to slice you up.
    It would also encourage people to place there attack properly.

    If you add team damage, then don’t expect your average game to have much cohesion and fun teamworking. Expect it to be a frustrating ramboing experience.
    You will have to join specific clan even to enjoy a better teamwork.
    That’s not a solution.



  • I experienced the exact opposite in Age of Chivalry. The new players and the ones who just wanted to rambo and do their own thing flocked to the servers without friendly fire, and the good players who knew how to coordinate and fight together joined the friendly fire servers.



  • @akarnir:

    @SlyGoat:

    And as always, footwork plays a huge role in the game as well as good team play and positioning in large fights since the game is designed around full friendly fire enabled.

    That’s the part that I don’t like. Friendly fire in a melee game can really interfere in team work experience. It’s obvious.

    Another simply solution would be to simply remove team damaging automatically, simply making your attacks bounce off your ally without any harmful effects - this could still be put into use in combat, because if you accidentally hit a friend instead of your enemy, you’ll be at the same disadvantage as if you missed your swing entirely, leaving you open for your enemy to slice you up.
    It would also encourage people to place there attack properly.

    If you add team damage, then don’t expect your average game to have much cohesion and fun teamworking. Expect it to be a frustrating ramboing experience.
    You will have to join specific clan even to enjoy a better teamwork.
    That’s not a solution.

    From my experience in the old AoC, friendly fire sounds terrible on paper. I preferred it off at first. Then you start getting better at the game and enjoy friendly fire enabled servers much more, believe me. And in pub servers, sometimes it was a ramboing experience, and sometimes a surprisingly large part of the team was working towards objectives, but for what Ive heard about how hey want to implement objectives in Chivalry, I think pubbers will work towards objectives even more, as the most successful objectives amongst pubbers where defending certain places close to spawn, as well as pushing rams/carts. The “enter the enemy base and steal X” or “carry this item to the depths of enemy base” ones were usually ignored, as they were nowhere nearby, but there will be few of those, apparently.



  • @SlyGoat:

    I experienced the exact opposite in Age of Chivalry. The new players and the ones who just wanted to rambo and do their own thing flocked to the servers without friendly fire, and the good players who knew how to coordinate and fight together joined the friendly fire servers.

    I know that. But still, this is what creates cohesion problem. Because you have tons of guys that just don’t want to become a good player and go ramboing. The battle ends up being chaotic, and usually repetitive (kill the first dude in sight).

    I played Aoc, mount and blade, WotR, in everyone of them, there is a clear lack of cohesion that makes every single game look like the same chaotic mess. For most people (maybe not you but most), chaotic mess is fun in the beginning but quickly becomes boring.

    Common strategical elements must be added in those game to help cohesion. Objectives already do half the job, now we need something like a commander or at least in-game voice chat to do the second half.

    All a commander would do is just to tell everyone in witch general direction to go, and what formations he advises.
    By experience I tell you that if everyone receive the same order, even if there is nothing that forces them to do it, they will tend to do it. For example, if i’m in a zone where the commander orders a shield wall, and i see two people positioning to do it, I will join them because I am sure that the same order has been passed and we have the same objective.

    It’s even more easier when there is a reward associated.



  • I won’t listen to this pesky commander…
    Rewards ain’t nothing compared to OUR FREEEEEDOOOOM !!!
    :berz:



  • @akarnir:

    @SlyGoat:

    I experienced the exact opposite in Age of Chivalry. The new players and the ones who just wanted to rambo and do their own thing flocked to the servers without friendly fire, and the good players who knew how to coordinate and fight together joined the friendly fire servers.

    I know that. But still, this is what creates cohesion problem. Because you have tons of guys that just don’t want to become a good player and go ramboing. The battle ends up being chaotic, and usually repetitive (kill the first dude in sight).

    I played Aoc, mount and blade, WotR, in everyone of them, there is a clear lack of cohesion that makes every single game look like the same chaotic mess. For most people (maybe not you but most), chaotic mess is fun in the beginning but quickly becomes boring.

    Common strategical elements must be added in those game to help cohesion. Objectives already do half the job, now we need something like a commander or at least in-game voice chat to do the second half.

    All a commander would do is just to tell everyone in witch general direction to go, and what formations he advises.
    By experience I tell you that if everyone receive the same order, even if there is nothing that forces them to do it, they will tend to do it. For example, if i’m in a zone where the commander orders a shield wall, and i see two people positioning to do it, I will join them because I am sure that the same order has been passed and we have the same objective.

    It’s even more easier when there is a reward associated.

    People usually ignore commanders, although in AoC pubbers used to teamplay more than in other similar games. The best way to encourage team play is via reward and punishment, yes. Thats why a friendly fire kill makes you lose score, and objectives gave you very high score. You could top the scoreboards by rushing the objectives (rushing isnt a good thing, but every objective you completed would give you the equivalent of around 5 kills).

    The best way for “someone” to direct players, is simply to have a charismatic guy on the mic shouting orders. People will obey them, even if they are completely absurd, because the guy is fun and they are having fun while doing what he says. Ive seen some players ordering pubbers to kill a horse and eat its meat, because “we are short on rations, and need to regain strenght for the battle”, or ordering them to run in circles around a well before charging the enemy to “gain momentum for our devastating charge”, and people have just followed and won those games.

    Believe me, shield walls happen, archers on walls while the melees defend the chokepoints happen, obviously you have to pick the server well, but this stuff happen spontaneously without any given command, just look for a server with good level players and they will do all of this and more.



  • @Wingy:

    @akarnir:

    @SlyGoat:

    I experienced the exact opposite in Age of Chivalry. The new players and the ones who just wanted to rambo and do their own thing flocked to the servers without friendly fire, and the good players who knew how to coordinate and fight together joined the friendly fire servers.

    I know that. But still, this is what creates cohesion problem. Because you have tons of guys that just don’t want to become a good player and go ramboing. The battle ends up being chaotic, and usually repetitive (kill the first dude in sight).

    I played Aoc, mount and blade, WotR, in everyone of them, there is a clear lack of cohesion that makes every single game look like the same chaotic mess. For most people (maybe not you but most), chaotic mess is fun in the beginning but quickly becomes boring.

    Common strategical elements must be added in those game to help cohesion. Objectives already do half the job, now we need something like a commander or at least in-game voice chat to do the second half.

    All a commander would do is just to tell everyone in witch general direction to go, and what formations he advises.
    By experience I tell you that if everyone receive the same order, even if there is nothing that forces them to do it, they will tend to do it. For example, if i’m in a zone where the commander orders a shield wall, and i see two people positioning to do it, I will join them because I am sure that the same order has been passed and we have the same objective.

    It’s even more easier when there is a reward associated.

    People usually ignore commanders, although in AoC pubbers used to teamplay more than in other similar games. The best way to encourage team play is via reward and punishment, yes. Thats why a friendly fire kill makes you lose score, and objectives gave you very high score. You could top the scoreboards by rushing the objectives (rushing isnt a good thing, but every objective you completed would give you the equivalent of around 5 kills).

    The best way for “someone” to direct players, is simply to have a charismatic guy on the mic shouting orders. People will obey them, even if they are completely absurd, because the guy is fun and they are having fun while doing what he says. Ive seen some players ordering pubbers to kill a horse and eat its meat, because “we are short on rations, and need to regain strenght for the battle”, or ordering them to run in circles around a well before charging the enemy to “gain momentum for our devastating charge”, and people have just followed and won those games.

    Believe me, shield walls happen, archers on walls while the melees defend the chokepoints happen, obviously you have to pick the server well, but this stuff happen spontaneously without any given command, just look for a server with good level players and they will do all of this and more.

    Then at least you need a In game voice chat for these charismatic guys to lead us.

    In game voice chat is a must since it’s the only way to see coherence in a random game and it’s the only way for random people to cooperate. Teamspeak only works with clan, in gmae voice chat works with everyone.


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