Does anyone else feel Javelines are kind of. . . pointless?



  • Sorry if this should be going into the balance section, but I want to point out my thoughts on the Javeline: They aren’t really good at anything.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love them. I often break even or more, and even if I die more than kill, I still have a fun time.

    But it’s just annoying to see a ranged weapon have not only the shortest range, but relatively long travel time AND the lowest damage of the group of ranged weapons.

    For example: I chucked two Javelins at a knight clear in the torso, he doesn’t die. A Knight can kill me in one swing of his sword. Granted, that’s supposed to happen. If I get hit, I’m screwed.

    But why am I being punished for two clean hits? That are actually pretty damned hard to land considering you need to be close-medium range to land anything without luck?

    The ability to melee with Javelins should make up for this downside, and it kind of does, but not really. It takes FOREVER to raise my buckler after throwing a javelin, and it shouldn’t. Bows/Xbows should have the disadvantage of switching to a secondary slowly.

    If javelin is going to force me to engage at medium range, and try to finish at close, I should be able to get my buckler up relatively quickly.

    Also, don’t get me wrong again, I love the javelin melee. There’s nothing more fun than interupting someone with a pokeystick. But I just don’t see why I should be using a Javelin over a bow/crossbow. They’re both better ranged, and their secondaries can be switched to pretty much as fast as going from throwing a javelin to raising your buckler.

    Maybe I’m missing something here, and it’s likely I am. Anyone want to give some pointers? Which Javelin do YOU use? Is there a hidden stat I’m missing here?

    Thanks again.



  • I feel like all archer weapons are.
    Screw archers.



  • @Xanith:

    I feel like all archer weapons are.
    Screw archers.

    Truth.



  • I don’t think they’re all pointless. . . in fact, the actual Bows/Xbows do a lot to turn the tide of a battle. Not only that, but Archers are very good in CCQ with a quick weapon.

    Great ranged damage (Some instant kill potential) and good melee. . . seems like a pair to me.

    Just. . . Javelines. Not good ranged really, not good melee really. Hard to get in and out of fights with, considering they’re fairly close quarter.



  • I am not sure which I hate more - the crossbow or the javelin.

    I am not too bad now at the bow.

    But I never score as many kills as I do with or classes.



  • The javelins will be a bit improved in the upcoming patch. If you opt into beta, you can test it out.



  • I end up getting more kills with a sword and buckler shield than the javelin… so yeah, not a setup I’d generally chose.

    If you haven’t see it already this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x7tCEDdCG0 from Hexen should help.



  • @Kimiko:

    The javelins will be a bit improved in the upcoming patch. If you opt into beta, you can test it out.

    Thanks buddy! I actually did opt in, but just to try out the new warstaff for my MAA and the flails for fun. :D Didn’t spend too much time in it, but I’ll definitely check it out.

    Are the changes to the Javelin listed anywhere? I’ll probably opt in again right now and just play around, but I didn’t want to spoil the patch for myself before it’s even released.



  • @Reginhard:

    I end up getting more kills with a sword and buckler shield than the javelin… so yeah, not a setup I’d generally chose.

    If you haven’t see it already this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x7tCEDdCG0 from Hexen should help.

    Thanks for the link! I actually watched another Javelin tutorial when I first started with it, but it wasn’t too in-depth.



  • Just for a fair warning, a LOT of the beta maps are not ideal for archers, consisting mostly of areas where a spear, or a fork may be a more reasonable choice then a crossbow or sling.



  • Actually I take it back. Been a while since Ive been on javelin and now it is starting to grow on me. There are some maps and places where it excels.



  • @AwefulWaffle:

    @Kimiko:

    The javelins will be a bit improved in the upcoming patch. If you opt into beta, you can test it out.

    Thanks buddy! I actually did opt in, but just to try out the new warstaff for my MAA and the flails for fun. :D Didn’t spend too much time in it, but I’ll definitely check it out.

    Are the changes to the Javelin listed anywhere? I’ll probably opt in again right now and just play around, but I didn’t want to spoil the patch for myself before it’s even released.

    The javelins got a significantly increased windup and reload time on thrown javelins, so you can more effectively throw a javelin at mid range without the enemy being able to instantly close in and hit you in response. There was a bit of discussion in our last meeting about possibly allowing javelins to combo the stab and shield punch attacks together in melee so you have more options in combat - generally speaking we agree with the feeling that javelins are a little dry in melee right now and could use some mechanical improvements which will probably also help from a balance standpoint.



  • Yes they are.



  • The heavy javelin can currently one hit a vanguard in the chest. Making it the most damaging weapon in the game.

    IF you can hit your target.



  • @AwefulWaffle:

    I don’t think they’re all pointless. . . in fact, the actual Bows/Xbows do a lot to turn the tide of a battle.

    Yeah, the team with the most archers loses. :)



  • SlyGoat:
    “allowing javelins to combo the stab and shield punch attacks together in melee”

    ^^^^

    Yes please,

    Mt.Lord-Los



  • @lemonater47:

    The heavy javelin can currently one hit a vanguard in the chest. Making it the most damaging weapon in the game.

    IF you can hit your target.

    Actually it can one shot a man-at-arms in the torso, not a vanguard; same as the heavy crossbow. The maul is currently the highest damage weapon in the game numerically, though its higher damage only really matters against knights where its blunt damage puts them at very low HP, enough to finish with two kicks.



  • Buckler makes javs worse imo.

    Also, why do most FFA maps have no ammo box? Jav users need ammo boxes!!!

    Also, what’s up with that stupid reload time? Should make it to where you can at least block or something… Not just stand there like an idiot waiting to die.



  • @Slaughtervomit:

    Buckler makes javs worse imo.

    Also, why do most FFA maps have no ammo box? Jav users need ammo boxes!!!

    Also, what’s up with that stupid reload time? Should make it to where you can at least block or something… Not just stand there like an idiot waiting to die.

    Or this
    viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8754#p75651



  • Javelins are monsters once the player dumps enough time into them. It’s not an easy setup to pickup, but once the player begins to understand all the timings and mechanics, experienced Javelin users are some of the best in the game.

    Very flexible, fast, very versatile and an excellent support unit. You just have to give it time, lots of it, and understand that most of your strategy comes from situational awareness. It’s not the Longsword, Halberd or Bardiche. It’s a niche setup that takes a bit more time to use effectively.


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