Really skill involved combats



  • This is sad, I got excited looking at the video so I bought this game and… Man, this is a pretty TF2…

    Something is very wrong in this game, there is almost no skill involved in fights.
    Please get inspired by the wonderful (yet crappy graphics) Warband, this is a true CQC game with even horses, sieges, caravans and so on.

    Those controls are terrible, ok you are sure not to miss what you wanted to do but once again look at Warband:
    -All four direction blows are done using the pre-mouse click movement, this is great and intuitive!
    -You can parry using the same technique
    -You can chamber using the same technique
    -Position of your feet matter to strike the first
    -Passive shield technique involving feet placement
    -Active shield technique increasing the risk to have yoour shield broken
    -Speed factor, you almost negate your blow if you move backward and double it if you charge (risk-recompense playstyle)

    Really, please integrate that and you will get an awesome game, until then I must admit this one will collect dust in my drive. :(



  • @Sir:

    This is sad, I got excited looking at the video so I bought this game and… Man, this is a pretty TF2…

    Something is very wrong in this game, there is almost no skill involved in fights.
    Please get inspired by the wonderful (yet crappy graphics) Warband, this is a true CQC game with even horses, sieges, caravans and so on.

    Those controls are terrible, ok you are sure not to miss what you wanted to do but once again look at Warband:
    -All four direction blows are done using the pre-mouse click movement, this is great and intuitive!
    -You can parry using the same technique
    -You can chamber using the same technique
    -Position of your feet matter to strike the first
    -Passive shield technique involving feet placement
    -Active shield technique increasing the risk to have yoour shield broken
    -Speed factor, you almost negate your blow if you move backward and double it if you charge (risk-recompense playstyle)

    Really, please integrate that and you will get an awesome game, until then I must admit this one will collect dust in my drive. :(

    If you think that there is no skill involved than you haven’t met those players that can actually play the game. Although a lot of people simply spam LMB and be successful, you will notice the skillful players who hack them all to pieces.

    Also warband is different but it is not a more elaborate system than this.

    • The parry here is also directional, you have to aim for the weapon. So in essence this can be even more directional since you don’t have just four directions, but all of the directions to block. The weapons are real-time instead of a fixed directional value, which in my opinion is slightly better for immersion. Note that the closer you are to the enemy the more you have to aim (that is how polearms hit behind a parry with an overhead from up close).
    • Chamber would be awesome, in that you are correct.
    • There is even a whole tutorial on footwork on this forum. Footwork is actually the first thing you must learn in this game to overcome parry trading games and the most effective one at quickly disposing of enemies.
    • I played cRPG for some time, but I do not know what you mean about the passive or active shield techniques… can you elaborate?
      The fact that shield should be broken is a controversial point here. Mainly because shields are actually not that good as in M&B, very easy to evade a shield by stabbing past it while using the footwork I mentioned above. So instead of a temporary super shield, you have a ‘not better, not worse’ alternative that has its weaknesses and its strengths permanently. Never minding the kick to break someones guard and the stamina system to punish people constantly blocking.
    • Speed factor is indeed not in the game for the weapons itself. It’s something I would actually want to see in-game, especially at the end of a swing that in the last centimeter it still does 100% damage…

    I don’t know how much you have played this game, but after more than 120 hours I can safely say that there actually is a lot of skill involved in this game.

    Btw, there is already a W&B ‘clone’ as in War of the Roses, it would be horrible if all melee games become as similar as the Medal of duty warfaces are right now.



  • More people spam in warband than in chivalry you do know that. I find that more skill is required in chivalry.



  • Except that in crpg if you spam you get killed in loop which is not the case here.

    I have been a bit rude to the game I admit but seriously no control on where blow comes from is actually a big difference skill-wise, talking about slash. And then why different buttons for the same action? an overhead in a vertical slash no?

    In crpg if you turn a bit to the right as a shield wielder and time it correctly you can passively block (and preserve your shield more than when lifting it).
    Add to that the chance to make a swing to the left and you had a great quick counter attack.

    Having unpredictable blows simply negates footwork, because you cannot shorten the blade-target distance the way you want and this is a HUGE difference.

    As for normalizing everything, please mind that crpg has been praised for being really good at CQC and trying to do better than a single great and unique system is not a COD-ification, far from that it would actually put this game away from that image of TF2-like.

    Chambering was also one of the hardest skill to get and hardest timing to perform, here… Nothing.

    This is why I said it would be great to have directional blows (not ony 4 ways) depending on pre-click move.

    I met some guys on korean servers actually excellent and godlike but with a little habit it’s not hard to block, parry them more than 5 times in a row which took 20x more times again in crpg because parry was not a dumb duck hunt game, you had to predict the direction and you had no time to correct your mistake.



  • But block direction is much more prominent than in warband. In warband you only have to raise your block in the direction the blow is coming. You dont even have to time it, as you can hold it so slower or faster weapon speed doesnt matter so much. Shields are a bubble of invulnerability. In chivalry, you have to look at the tip of the weapon to block it, making every weapon differet when it comes to blocking. You also have to time your blocks, as you only get protection for a very brief period of time before you are vulnerable again.

    Warbands clumsy controls doesnt mean the fighting involves more skill, unless you are counting the skill needed to get over said clumsyness. I dont really like passive shield blocking either. Hell, I dont like that they passively deflect arrows in chivalry. It takes away player input and adds randomness.

    Footwork in chivalry is not important, its crucial. Weapon range matters as much as in warband.

    And also, your suggestion is pointless. “Warband is awesome, why dont you make your game like warband?” Warband already exists, and fills a niche, a medieval combat game with rpg touchs and extensive single player campaign. Chivalry fits its own niche, a fast action medieval combat game, 100% multiplayer oriented. If you want to play warband, you can do so at any time.



  • Do me a favor and please refrain from talking about the mechanics of Warband if you only vaguely understand them.

    You have to time your blocks in Warband, being able to hold down the button means nothing if your opponent can feint just as fast and you don’t know when he’s actually going to swing.

    Native Warband takes a lot of skill/CRPG does not.

    Chivalry is a fun game to fuck around in…that’s all.

    Chambering was also one of the hardest skill to get and hardest timing to perform, here… Nothing.

    Agreed theres nothing in Chivalry past learning parry timings/feinting you can actually practice and get good at. Footwork you either have it or you don’t. If I don’t play for a few weeks I shake off the rust within minutes and start killing everyone in the server like I did when I played everyday. (Not something that should ever happen)

    People like to overstate how hard timing is in this game when everything is snail paced.



  • And you can change the direction of your block just as fast too. Warband is a feint spamfest. But because the player has to go over clumsy controls and the lack of a dedicated feint button, they believe they are “so skilled”, while they have only learned to overcome clumsy controls.



  • I wish people would just accept the fact that there can be more than one way of implementing something. Yes there are some mechanisms that actually would be awesome in chivalry (chamber attacks + real-time swings would be awesome), but that it could use some mechanism that other games have does not mean that the complete system is wrong… That would be a case of ‘Not invented here’ syndrome.
    Neither is a superior system, they are different. They both have advantages and weaknesses and I couldn’t point to the better one.


    “As for normalizing everything, please mind that crpg has been praised for being really good at CQC and trying to do better than a single great and unique system is not a COD-ification, far from that it would actually put this game away from that image of TF2-like.”- Sir Diealot

    I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I simply stated that if everybody uses the exact same system that we get the same situation as with CoD and all that crap. Nobody tries something different, leading to the fact that CoD:UO indicated the end of the FPS era (for me, that is). We already have WotR with the M&B system and M&B2 soon, why have another game with everything the same…


    Asking why you should have different buttons for different slashes… How would you do it without using the mouse?
    Not using the mouse for attacking makes it possible to do any attack while turning, whilst in my experience (<- important word group) you must stop turning in M&B to initiate a swing corresponding to a mouse movement to the other side (except for the keyboard mode, which has the same faults but with movement).
    They chose to leave the mouse for turning and aiming, so for different slashing you need another input, which is buttons!



  • @Nivve:

    They chose to leave the mouse for turning and aiming, so for different slashing you need another input, which is buttons!

    Not at all. They could have made it more advanced. They could have had it so if you left click and drag your mouse, that defines the the direction of the attack.

    Common algorithm, in java its called MouseDragGestureRecognizer



  • But that would still be using the mouse right? ;)



  • @gregcau:

    @Nivve:

    They chose to leave the mouse for turning and aiming, so for different slashing you need another input, which is buttons!

    Not at all. They could have made it more advanced. They could have had it so if you left click and drag your mouse, that defines the the direction of the attack.

    Common algorithm, in java its called MouseDragGestureRecognizer

    This would kill the fast pace in the game.



  • Sounds to me like you really like Warband. Maybe you should go play that instead of trying to make Chivalry into Warband…

    This is very reminiscent of all the people on the Smite forums asking for changes to make it more like HoN LoL and DOTA.

    You want it to be like another game? Go play the other game.

    Sorry don’t want to sound rude but I play this game because I like THIS game not Warband or WotR.



  • @Steel:

    Sounds to me like you really like Warband. Maybe you should go play that instead of trying to make Chivalry into Warband…

    This is very reminiscent of all the people on the Smite forums asking for changes to make it more like HoN LoL and DOTA.

    You want it to be like another game? Go play the other game.

    Sorry don’t want to sound rude but I play this game because I like THIS game not Warband or WotR.

    I completely agree with Steel Fury here. This game is its own game, not another knockoff or sequel to Warband.



  • While Chivalry does not have a really high skillcap, its gameplay is pretty much skill based. A player can be able to do really well without having put much practice into the game, but an experienced combatant will most certainly outplay the former.



  • @havz0r:

    While Chivalry does not have a really high skillcap, its gameplay is pretty much skill based. A player can be able to do really well without having put much practice into the game, but an experienced combatant will most certainly outplay the former.

    Very, very true.



  • @Hadron:

    @havz0r:

    While Chivalry does not have a really high skillcap, its gameplay is pretty much skill based. A player can be able to do really well without having put much practice into the game, but an experienced combatant will most certainly outplay the former.

    Very, very true.

    Double agreed.



  • NO really NO.


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