A Plea to Torn Banner



  • Stop changing so many things with your patches. Focus on the bugs that already exist.



  • Bada Bing!

    The only thing I agree about is the alt swing. I feel with the ghost animations happening still, that the alt swing may make things even crazier if it is not fixed first. As far as balancing weapons, it is just a float number being changed to speed up or slow down swing, or integer number for damage. So I don’t have a problem with that. New content is nice, since it adds variety to hold a larger player base. I only fear animations bugs to be rampant with the introduction of Alt swings.



  • Well this is their first game and have no QA support from an experienced publisher or anything. So they’re probably still working out a suitable development / patching cycle.

    Also a lot of people are crying out for new content, with the amount of sales this game ended up with on Steam its pretty important they get some new stuff out to tide people over, as well as some of the things promised in the kickstarter like Duel Mode. However doing all that with 2 programmers is not only tough, but they need to work in fixes for critical bugs too for this patch, (lest they get screamed at for only caring about content and ignoring problems).

    Hopefully after this content patch they can settle into a patching cycle of working on specific bugs. :)



  • If you read the detailed beta patch notes you will see that they are indeed listening to people’s request and patching bugs as well. They are tweaking weapons, fixing maps etc. Keep in mind they might already be working on fixing certain bugs they just haven’t made it to this round of beta changes. So far I cannot fault TB, they have made it clear what they are working on and testing ATM. You don’t get even that in big production houses sometimes.



  • Oh bada, don’t worry. There are a LOT of bugs that are being fixed. The problem is that they are trying to please everyone, so while they are fixing old bugs, they are also adding in new content, which in turn may create new bugs.

    In any case, the devs are listening and no game is ever perfect, so it’s always going to be a work in progress. Just be patient and have fun! FUN!



  • My post brings all the mods to the yard. And they’re like, it’s better than yours.

    I’m a software developer myself. I understand the need for reliable QA. The problem I’m seeing is feature requests while outstanding bugs are not resolved. As you’ve stated Kimiko, these content changes will likely add new bugs. I only wish for this game to reach a polished state first. Products turn into spaghetti code with too many “wouldn’t it be cool if…”



  • Haha yeah I do get what you mean, I’m also a Programmer for business apps, but while my department can tell the business to shut up and wait until the current build is stable before adding more stuff, it’s a bit different in the competitive game industry where the primary requirement is entertainment.

    They are correctly doing proper rounds of beta testing though, so once this content is out to keep people happy and they become more experienced, they’ll likely settle into a smaller patching cycle to address the major outstanding bugs.

    Problem Is some of them are likely hard to reproduce and fix, and if they just sat on their hands working on that, many people would be disappointed at the output and be crying out for MOAR!

    The Magicka devs ran Into the same sort of problems (just far worse bugs heh), they had Paradox to come in and help them a bit with proper QA processes and stuff later though.



  • Hopefully after this content patch is out the focus will turn to squashing bugs and faster turn around on them. Right now small patches aren’t doable because it seems like with every update you have to re-download the entire game. They need to make it that only the new or changed files need to be downloaded. Another thing they have to do is cut the crap that isn’t needed in the game files. There’s a lot of stuff that isn’t needed in the game directory.

    As the game generates more revenue some of it should go to hiring some qa staff. It’s understandable that it’s more or less non-existent at the moment, but at some point that will have to change for the game to be successful in the long run. Eventually some AAA companies are going to come out with their own take on Chivalry and if Torn Banner is to compete they’ll need their product to be as solid as possible.



  • @bada:

    Stop changing so many things with your patches. Focus on the bugs that already exist.

    I agree for the most. More time needs to be put into balance and bug fixes. Adding in things like alternative swings is completely stupid at the moment when the combat isn’t properly balanced.

    I can’t agree entirely though. Some thing like feints (and possible archer melee combat) might need a drastic overhaul.



  • I don’t think so.
    Please silence.

    @bada:

    Stop changing so many things with your patches. Focus on the bugs that already exist.



  • @bada:

    My post brings all the mods to the yard. And they’re like, it’s better than yours.

    I’m a software developer myself. I understand the need for reliable QA. The problem I’m seeing is feature requests while outstanding bugs are not resolved. As you’ve stated Kimiko, these content changes will likely add new bugs. I only wish for this game to reach a polished state first. Products turn into spaghetti code with too many “wouldn’t it be cool if…”

    The problem with that approach is that the game eventually turns stale and feels like there is little progress being made.

    I hate constantly bringing it up, but RO2 and Tripwire Interactive has taken this approach for the last year +…. and while they spent most of their time fixing bugs, only two maps were released in that last year +… now while many bugs have been fixed and it’s a pretty stable game (no more crashes, serious lag, and other game breaking issues) the lack of content added to the game has made it repetitive beyond belief.

    I’ve pretty well stopped playing RO2 now because I’ve played it to death already and I’m bored… and there’s no talk of any new content coming into the game any time soon.

    The community has dwindled away and RO2 is lucky to even make it on the Steam Stats page most of the time these days.

    There needs to be a balance between bug fixing and content development… if you focus completely on one or the other, you lose.

    One new map every 6 months for RO2 would bring players back to play… for a week or two and then the player counts would drop again. The game worked just fine for me since original launch and while I understood that many others had some serious issues and they needed to be addressed, I was already waiting for content to come in like what they used to do with their previous games.

    Now it’s been way too long and I’ve just lost interest. There’s nothing new for me to try, no new weapons, no new vehicles, no new maps… and out of the two new maps they released, only one seems to be on most server map cycles, while the other (the better one) hasn’t been included in most map cycles, so you might as well not even count that one.

    For Chivalry… I don’t see or hear of any major game breaking bugs like continual crashes or performance issues. It’s stable.

    While there’s some graphical issues and a couple of animation bugs, the game is pretty well solid and is in a much better state for content to be added in.

    I’m not saying they should stop working on bug and performance fixes… those things should always be a constant… but you can’t forget about content development either.



  • My concern is that they’ll rush things, just to get the content out there. If you can’t launch in it January, don’t launch it in January. I think most of us would rather them take their time and get it right than rush the process just to make a deadline.

    Another big concern of mine is that I’ll be playing a whole new game every time they roll out a new patch, and for someone who’s sunken a lot of time into the current build and has adjusted to the game as is, it can be rather frustrating to relearn the same game over and over again.

    This is the whole reason I stopped playing Tribes Ascend. It kept changing and I got tired of the game resetting with every patch. Balance was this magical unicorn that could never be caught because new content kept being added every other month.

    I bought and enjoyed the game when it came out, still do. I’m just afraid the game we bought a couple months ago isn’t going to be the game we’re left with, which happens to SOOOOOOOOOOOO many games these days.

    Stick to your vision. Don’t sacrifice it just to please people, because you end up with a mediocre mess that feels like it’s going in 10 different directions.



  • @HEXEN:

    This is the whole reason I stopped playing Tribes Ascend. It kept changing and I got tired of the game resetting with every patch. Balance was this magical unicorn that could never be caught because new content kept being added every other month.

    You’ll be happy to know Hi-Res Stupidos pretty much quit updating the game. I tried playing a C&H game the other day with like 4 people… It was sad and lonely.



  • @HEXEN:

    My concern is that they’ll rush things, just to get the content out there. If you can’t launch in it January, don’t launch it in January. I think most of us would rather them take their time and get it right than rush the process just to make a deadline.

    True to a degree…. but no matter how good a patch is, there will always be something that needs to be patched later on and something missed.

    Just look at the original Half-Life and its mods… how many patches and how many years has that game been patched?

    Something always came up that needed to be fixed, added or tweaked.

    Even if this patch doesn’t cover “Everything” it will still cover a good amount of stuff and be an improvement to the game none the less. It will fix a number of existing issues some players have and if they have to wait even longer, some may just leave to play something else.

    How long should they hold onto the patch until things are perfect?

    Another month?

    Three? A Year??

    It’s a tricky balance and not a simple thing to address. If you wait too long to release updates, by the time you do release, there can easily be fewer players around to notice and some may simply not come back as their interest went elsewhere.

    imo, that’s what happened to RO2… it seems like the devs abandoned the game, thus most players did the same. When it originally launched, it had around (or slightly more) players than what Chivalry has now… now RO2 is lucky to break 1000 players worldwide on a good day.

    And it’s a damn shame.

    Another big concern of mine is that I’ll be playing a whole new game every time they roll out a new patch, and for someone who’s sunken a lot of time into the current build and has adjusted to the game as is, it can be rather frustrating to relearn the same game over and over again.

    This is the whole reason I stopped playing Tribes Ascend. It kept changing and I got tired of the game resetting with every patch. Balance was this magical unicorn that could never be caught because new content kept being added every other month.

    I bought and enjoyed the game when it came out, still do. I’m just afraid the game we bought a couple months ago isn’t going to be the game we’re left with, which happens to SOOOOOOOOOOOO many games these days.

    Stick to your vision. Don’t sacrifice it just to please people, because you end up with a mediocre mess that feels like it’s going in 10 different directions.

    I have to agree about those risks being possible, but I don’t think the chances are high…. if it starts to occur, then I am sure a good chunk of the community will let them know right away.

    But give them a chance first to see what will happen. This is like the first big patch for the game, thus there’s nothing to base much on towards what can or will happen & it seems to me that a lot of people are jumping to conclusions a bit too soon.

    Patching a video game is not like patching a program… most programs people “NEED” for their work & productivity, thus they will usually wait however long it takes to get their program patched and they won’t just suddenly stop using their program until it is fixed.

    Now look at video games… different beast. If it seems to take months for the game to be fixed/patched, then there’s nothing stopping them from playing something else and losing interest… a specific game is not a necessity for everyday life.

    I use Photoshop and Illustrator on a daily basis, as an example… and I can’t just suddenly stop using these programs at work because a patch is taking too long.

    But as my previous example of RO2… they’ve been taking their sweet time with updates, patches and content and thus, my and many other player’s attention went elsewhere… whether they can ever recover those lost numbers… well, I’m not getting my hopes up.



  • @Cpt-Praxius:

    …snip…

    Yeah, RO2 was a pass for me, and I’m glad I passed. Got lucky with that one.

    I don’t have a problem with new content, like new weapons and maps, but when the core mechanics start getting messed with, it’s a huge turnoff and so unnecessary most of the time.

    I remember BF3 having whole pages of weapon changes that were so useless. It’s an easy way to say “look at everything we’re changing based on community feedback!” It’s some number juggling and easy implementation, all while HUGE flaws still existed and continued to exist long after they had claimed to fix them. People get distracted by the changes to their favorite weapon and the shiny new content and the flaws and bugs end up persisting.

    Listening to the community is beneficial to a point. But most of the time, in my opinion, the general consesus from the community on the majority of issues, fabricated BY the community, is dead wrong.

    None of the core mechanics of this game need adjusting right now. Ghost swings need to be taken care of. The animations still need work. Optomization still needs to happen. There’s still, at the very least, one point on every map where I can purposely get myself stuck. Siege weapons need to work properly, especially ballistas. Just a few weapons really need adjusting: like the Billhook, Halberd and Holy Water.

    Take the feint debate for example. The current solution in the patch beta is to adjust feint, one mechanic, by messing with another, stamina. In my opinion, if feint really needs to be changed, try finding a solution to the mechanic within the actual mechanic itself. Make it simpler, not more complex.

    Did anyone really think the MAA dodge needed to go further? MAA’s are already the most powerful 1v1 class in the game. Who thought all the crossbows needed to be able to one shot Knights? Really? All of them, even the light Cross, does more damage than the Short or Long Bow, and it’s across all 4 classes, no arrow specialization required.

    New players to the Javelin pour into the forums and bash the class, while spending what, maybe a couple hours with it? Truly skilled Javelin players are monsters on the battlefield and make better support units than most of the Bow and Cross setups. But of course, their reload time is getting shortened because people don’t understand proximity and that throwing a Javelin at a person 5 feet in front of you might be a huge risk if you miss.

    Shield setups are being punished with weapon wind ups and recovery… again, why? They already sacrifice their abilty to parry attack and their vision + situational awareness when they’re held up. Couple that with the shield bugs I forgot to mention earlier, and they have just as many drawbacks as not using them.

    Anyways, apologies for the rant. I just REALLY care where this game goes, because I enjoy it so damn much. I don’t want to see it fall into the same traps as the last 3-4 games I’ve tried to take seriosuly when it comes to online play. If Chivalry gets butchered, so to speak, I think I’ll honestly give up on multiplayer games.



  • @ChuckingIt:

    Bada Bing!

    The only thing I agree about is the alt swing. I feel with the ghost animations happening still, that the alt swing may make things even crazier if it is not fixed first. As far as balancing weapons, it is just a float number being changed to speed up or slow down swing, or integer number for damage. So I don’t have a problem with that. New content is nice, since it adds variety to hold a larger player base. I only fear animations bugs to be rampant with the introduction of Alt swings.

    If anyone can confirm if this still happen in beta, please do. I haven’t seen it in any of the beta patches - on live I think the issue is tied to being flinched right as you’re starting a swing, which causes the animation to still play for others.

    @bada - there are a huge number of bug fixes being rolled out with CU1 along with the new content. It’s not like a decision was made to suddenly create duel mode, CTF, new weapons, etc. all at once in a month and ignore bugs - all of this has been gradually worked on for a while, it just finally had a feasible release date, so the patch was dedicated to it.

    Bugs are fixed when they’re known and can be dealt with. Unfortunately with a team this small, everyone is busy doing their job all the time - nobody has time to kick a peasant for an hour to figure out why 1 kick out of every 20 doesn’t knock back as far

    Luckily, I love kicking peasants. So, hopefully, things will improve drastically in the bug fixing department, without content being slowed at all. I’m sorry you’re disappointed with CU1 - I hope you’ll be happier about the next one, which should be majorly dedicated to squashing bugs now that I’m on board and the new content is good and ready. We’ve taken great care to make sure that the new content doesn’t introduce any gamebreaking bugs, hence why the beta has had 3 cycles and we’re pushing the release so close to the end of January, so that we can deliver on our deadline while ensuring the patch we push out is not only great for the people who wanted new content, but also refines and improves the experience for those who are happy with the game as it is.

    If you’ve found some gamebreaking bug in the beta, it’d be great if you could report it in the beta bug reports thread so we can look into fixing it and not end up releasing a patch with new bugs as you seem worried about.



  • To me, if the world’s shittiest netcode became the world’s second shittiest netcode in next patch (and the third shitties the patch after this one), I’ll be content.

    The only thing that enrages me in this game are the moments when my weapons/projectiles go straight through the target’s body without registering a hit, while someone takes my head off for stabbing his pointed stick 2 feet to my left.

    Sadly enough, I have yet to spot something in the patchnotes that addresses netcode/hitboxes/registering issues, so I guess this will be just a “meh” patch for me that adds a ton of new stuff that I can’t enjoy to the fullest because if the shitty netcode.



  • I also want new content so I have to disagree. Just have patience, even counter strike source got a patch in 2012, it is the nature of software and obviously they have and are fixing things so unless that stops, I would chill out and enjoy the new patch.

    I still want them to add Capture the flag.



  • @Blackjack:

    I also want new content so I have to disagree. Just have patience, even counter strike source got a patch in 2012, it is the nature of software and obviously they have and are fixing things so unless that stops, I would chill out and enjoy the new patch.

    I still want them to add Capture the flag.

    Dude. You have a car, and its engine works like shit. You also have 5.000$. What do you do with it? Do you

    a) buy rims, neons, leather seats, dvd players and vynils

    or do you

    b) fix the fucking engine?



  • Agreed, I couldn’t care less about Flails or Quarterstaffs when I’m getting killed by attacks with no animation, with my character using thrust attacks without me pressing anything and with Idle Flinch still rearing its ugly head every single battle I fight.


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