Damage models



  • Hey, I just recently found out about this game, and am very excited. I’d love to help improve the gameplay with feedback, so here is one thing that has been bugging me.
    The damage models. As far as I can tell, The character has a health percentage that regenerates over time, and any dismemberment causes instant death. Obviously, this system works well enough, and is easy to understand, but I’d love to see more depth in what kinds of damage can be dealt. Also, I’m not sure how I feel about regenerating health; maybe it should be a serverside option.
    Anyway, here are some ideas for a more realistic/interesting model:

    Again, I’m not sure how much of this may be already planned or implemented. The game Overgrowth has a damage system that is worth checking out, similar to what I have outlined.
    Also, Overgrowth has a community model where once you have pre-ordered the game, you can download the (weekly) alpha builds and try them out. This allows the devs to get loads of criticisms and suggestions from those who have already invested in the game. I understand a similar alpha test is going on for C:MW, but I don’t see any way (as a late joiner) of applying for it. I would really love to try out the Alpha, as buggy as it may be, and continue to give my feedback.
    Thanks!
    -Adam

    edit: A thought on visual damage to playermodels. While decapitation and limbs getting hacked off look awesome, it feels as though there is something missing. When a blow hits somewhere other than neck/precise areas on limbs, almost nothing happens. This can really hurt immersion; swords should do real damage to any area on the body. Compare how hacking at a dead body in C:MW looks to L4D2; there is no contest. I realize that it is quite hard to implement dismemberment and disfigurement to the extent that Valve has, but it is certainly something to strive for.
    http://alex.vlachos.com/graphics/Vlachos-GDC10-Left4Dead2Wounds.pdf
    http://i.imgur.com/BktMc.jpg



  • @NtiT:

    A thought on visual damage to playermodels. While decapitation and limbs getting hacked off look awesome, it feels as though there is something missing. When a blow hits somewhere other than neck/precise areas on limbs, almost nothing happens. This can really hurt immersion; swords should do real damage to any area on the body. Compare how hacking at a dead body in C:MW looks to L4D2; there is no contest. I realize that it is quite hard to implement dismemberment and disfigurement to the extent that Valve has, but it is certainly something to strive for.
    http://alex.vlachos.com/graphics/Vlachos-GDC10-Left4Dead2Wounds.pdf
    http://i.imgur.com/BktMc.jpg

    The problem is that devs said it is not possible in Unreal Engine 3. :/



  • Dismemberment isn’t an instant kill at all, actually. Head and neck hits deal extra damage, but they don’t instantly kill. If your killing blow lands on an area of the body that can be dismembered by the weapon you’re using, it triggers a dismemberment death animation.

    Health regeneration is absolutely necessary. It may not be completely realistic but the devs have stated time and again they’re going for “fantasy realistic” - warriors capable of extraordinary feats of endurance like shrugging off being stabbed in the chest, but not healing themselves with magical crystals. The biggest factor though is that health regeneration makes the gameplay much smoother. This much was proven in Age of Chivalry. Before health regeneration existed in AoC, the basic strategy in skrims for the defending team was to suicide if you were injured after the enemy team attempted a push and failed - because otherwise you’re going to have much less chance of repelling the next attack. Even after the slow, very restrictive health regeneration was added to AoC it was still a wise choice to simply respawn if you were at very low health. The regeneration rate and mechanics in Chivalry are just right IMO - if you’re constantly moving forward going for the objectives or just for a killing spree you’ll have time to regenerate a little between fights, which is perfect if you barely take hits; if you’re severely injured you still have to lay low for a while to regenerate to full, giving enemies an opportunity to finish you off. And of course it completely dissuades defenders from suiciding for any reason but to change class.

    Honestly in this day and age I think most game developers have realized some form of health restoration is necessary in any kind of game that isn’t round-based (like Counter-Strike which would not benefit at all from any kind of health regeneration). Gameplay suffers without it because being permanently injured encourages bad tactical decisions like avoiding combat. IMO Chivalry without health regeneration would be almost as bad as Chivalry without friendly fire.

    Anyway, that’s my rant about health regeneration. As for the hacking people up, I don’t think that’s top priority, but I’m certain work will be constantly done to improve visual violence post-release. The devs constantly reinforce the statement that Chivalry is a labor of love that they’ll continue to work on for a long time, and I completely believe them given their history.



  • @SlyGoat:

    Dismemberment isn’t an instant kill at all, actually.

    Interesting. So, is it possible to keep fighting for a bit once your shield arm has been hacked off? Or does dismemberment only trigger on a killing blow to the right spot?

    @SlyGoat:

    The biggest factor though is that health regeneration makes the gameplay much smoother.

    Okay, that makes a lot of sense. I still think it would be fun to have a more complicated damage model, even if there still is a form of regeneration. Blunt trauma vs. wounds that bleed I think would be a very interesting thing to see. Also armor damage could fit on top of player damage, and maybe not regenerate?



  • Well, there is already a mild system of damage types. Slashing damage is much less effective against knights than stabbing and blunt damage but more effective against men-at-arms and archers, while vanguards take equal damage from every type I believe. There is also very minor armor damage in the case of your helmet. Knocking off someone’s helmet will make head hits do a lot more damage, so it’s a permanent disadvantage in combat even if you regenerate back the health you lost from the hit that knocked your helmet off.



  • Nice. Now, my only question is, how the heck can I get into the Alpha test? I understand that they have probably closed admission to it, but I’m antsy to get my hands on the game and try it out for myself.



  • You can always preorder on kickstarter and get the beta when it’s available so you can start chopping heads as soon as possible :)



  • Well, I have pre-ordered, but the official beta looks to be a ways off.


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