Delete or Tone down Vans, not a crying post.



  • I play under the name Tayyvis as a Knight or MAA usually Knight because of trigger happy teammates, if you ever see me im usually at the top with a crazy amount of kills just went 103kills 20 deaths usually go around 40-70s for kills, this is all not to brag but to hopefully give some credibility to my post.

    As it stands as vanguards, forget hal because its NOT the problem, you can literally just backpeddle and poke and you will end up with a pretty good score. And godforbid you throw a feint between those pokes and you will be literally untouchable (droppd 200 kills 4 deaths as one in a 64 man yesterday) It literally is a joke to play one If you know how to use your footing, different swings, parrys and feints.

    The problem is everyone is bad right now so you cant see how drastically better vanguards are than any class. Because right now if you pick any class and throw feints after a block everyone will fall for them constantly and you should never die. The reach or speed needs to be toned down. One or the other, prefferd speed because thats would obviously make sense for a class weilding around 10ft poles.

    I dont usually die by vans its not why i say this, they are actually pretty easy to kill as a knight but as me playing one and anyone else whos not afriad to call a spade a spade, the class is godmode for anyone with 2 fingers.

    If you dont tone them then take them out, then it would be MAAs> Knights > Archers > MAAs Thats how the game would play and to me every class has a counter and a weakness, which is perfect balance.



  • IMO vanguards are weakest and least picked class in serious play right now.



  • In competitive play (serious) vanguards are only picked as support classes (long weps). You need to understand game wider.



  • Where do you play? lol, most clan matches that get anywhere near close and we use a full Vanguard rush with 3 knights as the shield runners, as our ace in the hole and it never fails. Or trade the knights with maas all having coordinated pot throws. The weakest class is archer, it can be amazing if people were CS good at aiming with it, but they arent. If Vans had the speed as a hammer they would be fine and it would make perfect sense, but having the speed as a short sword with 10ft spears and poles is just redic.

    They arent GAMEBREAKING, its why deleting would be a lil overkill but just wait till you see people in feint and parry wars when people learn how to do those instead of swing block swing block and their will be no class even worth picking that isnt them.

    And besides clan matches you literally cant go in a pub without seeing the top 3 players of both sides bein vanguards with the occasional knight up there, that should show a balance issue. And most clan matches DO use vans…lots…and lots…of vans…



  • And be honest, most clan matches are a joke with idiots leading them. Ive never seen a team to run us through even 2 wins



  • You’re talking about balance issues with unskilled players?

    Lol - I think I’ll take this thread with TWO grains of salt. Vanguards are the easiest class for me to kill.



  • Whos skilled? Clan matches are even worse then pubs(except this weekend…). Every “top clan” that promotes there shit is horrible in matches or tries to do triangle formations or huddle up strategies that just dont work. All i can take is my info on pubs with higher ranked (40+s) because you will get more time for 1on1 combat instead of the strat vs strat teamplay in clan matches. And like i said vans still dominate “competitive play” anyone who wants a match we will run full van rushes and it will play out to be 7-0 wins to show that vans are certainly far from useless in “skilled” play.



  • @yayolol:

    Where do you play? lol, most clan matches that get anywhere near close and we use a full Vanguard rush with 3 knights as the shield runners, as our ace in the hole and it never fails. Or trade the knights with maas all having coordinated pot throws. The weakest class is archer, it can be amazing if people were CS good at aiming with it, but they arent. If Vans had the speed as a hammer they would be fine and it would make perfect sense, but having the speed as a short sword with 10ft spears and poles is just redic.

    They arent GAMEBREAKING, its why deleting would be a lil overkill but just wait till you see people in feint and parry wars when people learn how to do those instead of swing block swing block and their will be no class even worth picking that isnt them.

    And besides clan matches you literally cant go in a pub without seeing the top 3 players of both sides bein vanguards with the occasional knight up there, that should show a balance issue. And most clan matches DO use vans…lots…and lots…of vans…

    Wait, what the hell are you talking about? Clan matches use 50% class rule.



  • the class is godmode for anyone with 2 fingers.

    No, it really isn’t. There are issues with the halberd and (arguably) the bardiche, but the class itself is certainly not god mode, unless you’re playing in a server full of completely new players.

    And besides clan matches you literally cant go in a pub without seeing the top 3 players of both sides bein vanguards with the occasional knight up there, that should show a balance issue.

    Of course you can log on during the free weekend (or almost any time in a pub server, to be honest), grab a polearm and swing your way to a good score - making balance decisions based on this is not a good idea. The majority of pub players don’t make use of feints - that doesn’t mean the game should be balanced as if that mechanic didn’t exist.



  • Wait, what the hell are you talking about? Clan matches use 50% class rule.

    Some clans, the ones worth talking about usually will go free class selections because then you can really counter balance certain makeups so its not the exact same setup 24/7. Ive played 50% ones and still the ones using their best men on vans seem to win.

    Take it for whatever grains of salt you need to, like i said if a class can swing as fast as a short sword, have the reach of a flag pole and the insane damage from it all is just not balanced. Cut the pie any way you want, Thats not balance. Every class has a weakness with less of this to get more of that. Vanguards dont really seem to be sacrificing anything for that damage speed and reach. But i guess thats perfect balance because idiots dont use them yet in “skilled” matches. Tayyvis add me, ill record any match u want, we can go only one van on our setup ill be it and you wont win. Since everyone wants to play who has a bigger schlong



  • @Humber:

    the class is godmode for anyone with 2 fingers.

    No, it really isn’t. There are issues with the halberd and (arguably) the bardiche, but the class itself is certainly not god mode, unless you’re playing in a server full of completely new players.

    @3vavt1jy:

    And besides clan matches you literally cant go in a pub without seeing the top 3 players of both sides bein vanguards with the occasional knight up there, that should show a balance issue.

    Of course you can log on during the free weekend (or almost any time in a pub server, to be honest), grab a polearm and swing your way to a good score - making balance decisions based on this is not a good idea.

    The blocking system requires you to block the tip correct? So if i run in your face spammin feints and pokes so close that in game you wont see the tip of the sword because its actually behind you hitting through any block because of it then thats godmode my friend. Either way they can kite, Their poke makes you get pushed back, correct? so with that amount of reach and someone spamming backpeddle what exactly are you going to hit me with? Your like a fish caught on a line the only damage that is happening is the damage happening to you, not me.

    Ill break it down, im 5 feet away, i poke you and you get pushed 1 step back, im backpeddling so i just went 2 steps back, you are now 8 feet away from me, come at me and ill throw feints to make you block and you will be right back in the cycle (you can still get pushed back as blocking with low pokes). So now you either block and get pushed back or take the hit and keep at the uphill battle (you cant win) The reason why vanguards fail is they spam, spamming will get you a positive kd in terrible pubs but thats it. Start kiting and you will never worry about a death in any clan match or server again.



  • @yayolol:

    Wait, what the hell are you talking about? Clan matches use 50% class rule.

    Some clans, the ones worth talking about usually will go free class selections because then you can really counter balance certain makeups so its not the exact same setup 24/7. Ive played 50% ones and still the ones using their best men on vans seem to win.

    What clans are you referring to exactly? If they’re worth talking about, perhaps you should actually give the names of them. The top American clans (Kvii, int, Vq, Lg, Kila, etc.) usually play 50% from what I’ve seen. In high level play a good archer can literally win games for his team, and as mentioned Vanguards typically play more of a support role. A good Vanguard can be deadly, but the same can be said of any class when played well. If you didn’t have so much credibility and weren’t so good at the game I might be inclined to believe you have no idea what you’re talking about.



  • Another Balance thread. These belong in the Balance section! -moved.



  • @yayolol:

    Where do you play? lol, most clan matches that get anywhere near close and we use a full Vanguard rush with 3 knights as the shield runners, as our ace in the hole and it never fails. Or trade the knights with maas all having coordinated pot throws. The weakest class is archer, it can be amazing if people were CS good at aiming with it, but they arent. If Vans had the speed as a hammer they would be fine and it would make perfect sense, but having the speed as a short sword with 10ft spears and poles is just redic.

    They arent GAMEBREAKING, its why deleting would be a lil overkill but just wait till you see people in feint and parry wars when people learn how to do those instead of swing block swing block and their will be no class even worth picking that isnt them.

    And besides clan matches you literally cant go in a pub without seeing the top 3 players of both sides bein vanguards with the occasional knight up there, that should show a balance issue. And most clan matches DO use vans…lots…and lots…of vans…

    You must be European, because I’ve never heard of you Tayyvis.



  • @yayolol:

    …(droppd 200 kills 4 deaths as one in a 64 man yesterday)…

    You either are playing against bots, lying or the best player in the world. I think we can rule the last one out ;) Stuff like that does not give you credibility, it does the exact opposite.



  • Consider that you’re essentially playing a different game. In a 64-man slashfest it is only natural that vanguards with their long-reaching swings will have an edge. This can be observed to a lesser extent in crowded FFA matches, where often enough most players will pick vanguard to hit as many players as possible, as hard as possible.
    This also explains your problem with friendly-fire - it’s probably hard not to hit at least one teammate with each swing when there’s thirty-one dudes on your team.

    Correct me if there’s anything official, but I think it’s safe to assume that the game is designed to be played with 10-32 concurrent players, and any imbalances you’d encounter after breaching that threshold should be noone’s concern.



  • @JHoersten2:

    You’re talking about balance issues with unskilled players?

    Lol - I think I’ll take this thread with TWO grains of salt. Vanguards are the easiest class for me to kill.

    Screw two grains of salt, i’m taking this with a damn MOUNTAIN of salt.



  • @yayolol:

    Whos skilled? Clan matches are even worse then pubs(except this weekend…). Every “top clan” that promotes there shit is horrible in matches or tries to do triangle formations or huddle up strategies that just dont work. All i can take is my info on pubs with higher ranked (40+s) because you will get more time for 1on1 combat instead of the strat vs strat teamplay in clan matches. And like i said vans still dominate “competitive play” anyone who wants a match we will run full van rushes and it will play out to be 7-0 wins to show that vans are certainly far from useless in “skilled” play.

    Lolololololololololol

    So by clan matches you mean “playing random scrims” apparently, since @yayolol:

    All i can take is my info on pubs with higher ranked (40+s) because you will get more time for 1on1 combat instead of the strat vs strat teamplay in clan matches.

    Which still makes me LOLOLOLOL even after rereading it 4 times.



  • Thank you dear Sir Yayolol, you’ve made my day.



  • that post gave me cancer…


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