Why did u nerf shield so much, game is just about luck now?



  • You make the only setup completely impervious to feints, the shield, completely inviable with several massive nerfs to it… and also make TTK much shorter… the game is just luck now, you have less time to read your opponents, and feint masters always prevail.



  • Incorporating feint into your strategy is part of skilled game play.

    Masters of skill always prevail? Working as intended.



  • Mastery of offensive skills while defensive mechanics fall to the wayside because using them is rarely as effective is NOT HOW THE GAME SHOULD PLAY!

    It makes me so frustrated that people want fast battles more than balanced battles. That is the only thing feinting currently is useful for. Shortening the length of battles. It makes them mostly down to luck, randomness; which I find terrible… but apparently people are cool with that. A new, vastly inferior player should have the means to kill a veteran by throwing dice at him, not using skill. That makes sense.

    In the future, when people have truly mastered every trick in the book, then and only then will feinting (in a different more balanced form) be needed and a positive to the game. However, we’re very very far from that.



  • @theuprising:

    Why did u nerf shield so much

    @theuprising:

    You make the only setup completely impervious to feints



  • Oh and by the way, shields were in no way impervious to feints as you still have to aim at where the weapon is coming from. That means you can feint attacking in one direction and quickly switch to another and it would still be effective. On a more manageable level though. I guess people don’t want anything in the game that brings down feints into a mortal realm.

    Godlike feints or gtfo, eh?



  • Shields weren’t nerfed.

    They were fixed.

    They were bugged before.



  • Nerf Nerf Shield
    because it make game hard.



  • Shields weren’t nerfed.

    They were fixed.

    They were fixed and nerfed:

    • Special dazed when kicked out of shield block.
    • Getting special dazed when being kicked with shield up and you are out of stamina, you will gain 30 stamina.
    • Bigger shields make your windup time with weapon slower

    I hope it doesn’t render the bigger shields useless but that depends on how big windup time per shield currently is.



  • @Holy.Death:

    Shields weren’t nerfed.

    They were fixed.

    They were fixed and nerfed:
    @1xgpqqiw:

    • Special dazed when kicked out of shield block.
    • Getting special dazed when being kicked with shield up and you are out of stamina, you will gain 30 stamina.
    • Bigger shields make your windup time with weapon slower

    I hope it doesn’t render the bigger shields useless but that depends on how big windup time per shield currently is.

    Bit more realism. Change of tactics is needed for some.

    They are also fixing the hit boxes around the shields to be more true in third person or spectator view. So shields don’t block arrows in mid air. Making larger shields more useful.



  • Things you can do with shields…

    Fancy a picnic? Find a three-legged Knight chop off the legs and place a Buckler Shield on top, making a rather splendid center piece table.

    Take a War hammer and bash a Heater Shield pointy bit first into the ground; hey pesto, a handy sun screen.

    Too much sun? cut a Tower Shield in half, rearrange the straps and you and a friend can go snow boarding!

    Take a Kite Shield add strings…



  • @UnknownXV:

    Mastery of offensive skills while defensive mechanics fall to the wayside because using them is rarely as effective is NOT HOW THE GAME SHOULD PLAY!

    So properly managing parries needs to be countered with some tard holding RMB to keep his shield up indefinitely? The balance here is that tard pointing his shield in the right direction as the attacks come.

    Working.
    As.
    Intended.

    L2P



  • @JHoersten2:

    @UnknownXV:

    Mastery of offensive skills while defensive mechanics fall to the wayside because using them is rarely as effective is NOT HOW THE GAME SHOULD PLAY!

    So properly managing parries needs to be countered with some tard holding RMB to keep his shield up indefinitely? The balance here is that tard pointing his shield in the right direction as the attacks come.

    Working.
    As.
    Intended.

    L2P

    Shields as they currently are do not regenerate stamina while held up. No need to add a stamina penalty as well, because again they are the only viable defense against feints. Follow up attacks from a shield block will be slower than before as well. These nerfs are excessive and just make feinting even more potent. Less defense, more offense; more casual fast paced low thought fights.



  • I know of another pretty good defense against feints… don’t get suckered into a parry. Works great.



  • Bit more realism. Change of tactics is needed for some.

    Realism is never a good balancing purpose when it comes to a video game. So far I only express my concerns, nothing more as I didn’t test beta. It’d be wrong of me to ask to make changes for something I didn’t play.

    I agree that fix to the shield was needed and I approve it has been done as bugs are bugs and each bug should be expelled. I only hope that the other changes mentioned (which I see as nerfs, and nerfs, as well as buffs, are the part of the balancing purpose) won’t make them underpowered. I’ll see after beta becomes the released content patch. I keep my fingers crossed.

    They are also fixing the hit boxes around the shields to be more true in third person or spectator view. So shields don’t block arrows in mid air. Making larger shields more useful.

    I don’t quite understand the phrase about “shields blocking arrows in mid air”. Can you elaborate a bit on this? Do you know if they know and work on the bug (at least I think it’s a bug) when someone is very close to you and his stab goes through your shield’s hit box?

    So properly managing parries needs to be countered with some tard holding RMB to keep his shield up indefinitely? The balance here is that tard pointing his shield in the right direction as the attacks come.

    It was more comment on feints rather than it was on shields. He means that with feints (overall) defensive is of less importance, even with shields.



  • I don’t quite understand the phrase about “shields blocking arrows in mid air”. Can you elaborate a bit on this? Do you know if they know and work on the bug (at least I think it’s a bug) when someone is very close to you and his stab goes through your shield’s hit box?

    I hope its a bug as it is very annoying.

    On the arrow side of things shields currently passively block all arrows and Javs, you don’t have to RMB just turn the shield into the line of fire (Unless they are actually aiming for your head). This works even if its on your back.

    Melee attacks however ignore the shield unless it is actively used.

    Orginally I though this was to balance the archers, and maybe it still is, but given the pixel level of accuracy needed to land an arrow or jav it seems a little over the top.

    If it worked that way for all attacks I would mind it so much.

    Also shield blocking seems to favor the attacker, if so much as the point of the weapon extends beyond the shield you take full damage, this can be difficult with an oppenent in your face, and your shield taking up half the screen.

    Wether this is a bug, or just my perceptions of what is happening, shield kicking appears to be blockable by another shields. Seems to defeat the purpose of it all together.



  • @The:

    A new, vastly inferior player should have the means to kill a veteran by throwing dice at him, not using skill.

    A “veteran” should know how to read feints. The only thing that is wrong with feints IMO is that they should take more stamina.

    Regarding shields, I’m okay with it, they were an unfair counter to feints. At high levels, the shield practically made impossible to successfully feint an attack and hit the opponent with another. Feints ARE the best tool in Chivalry, and it’s mastery should be something everyone wants to achieve. The game works best this way.

    No randomness, people will need now to actually learn to read feints instead of raising their shield up and moving their camera then counter attacking.

    With this nerf, shields will be useless at high levels unless facing various archers as parrying works better for offensive. And to me, that’s the way it should be.



  • Wait, I’m confused at the massive part…

    It looks like all they did was increase the effectiveness of the only attack that knight has to react against because it can hit through a shield, and improve arrow hit detection?

    I’m okay with this change because several knights shield walling are a bit too effective of a stall since you can’t really circle one without getting hit by another. Running up to a knight and kicking him really tough if he is aggressive or has buddies long range thrusting weapons.



  • @ChizFreak:

    @The:

    A new, vastly inferior player should have the means to kill a veteran by throwing dice at him, not using skill.

    A “veteran” should know how to read feints. The only thing that is wrong with feints IMO is that they should take more stamina.

    Regarding shields, I’m okay with it, they were an unfair counter to feints. At high levels, the shield practically made impossible to successfully feint an attack and hit the opponent with another. Feints ARE the best tool in Chivalry, and it’s mastery should be something everyone wants to achieve. The game works best this way.

    No randomness, people will need now to actually learn to read feints instead of raising their shield up and moving their camera then counter attacking.

    With this nerf, shields will be useless at high levels unless facing various archers as parrying works better for offensive. And to me, that’s the way it should be.

    I’ll stay in front of you, and perform attacks. All you have to do is block them, and see if you can read my feints. You won’t be able to. It’s not possible, when someone is close and uses accelerated attacks. There is little to no skill involved in that. Shields were the only way to defend against a mechanic that does not even belong in the first place because it’s so imbalanced in the context of other abilities one can perform.

    Little skill to use with a gargantuan return in power. That is a bad idea in any multiplayer game.



  • Given average human reaction time, there is a limit to how well you can defend against feints (and I’m not even referring to 1 handers and their swing speed).
    The ‘snapping’ of animations and general jerkiness can really throw you off - its even worse with lookdown overhead feints since you have an even smaller window of opportunity to react if it is a real attack.

    As someone in another thread pointed out, you can learn to predict if certain people have specific or unvarying patterns with feinting but in the end, it comes down to guesswork when to parry (without the use of a shield) against skilled feinting.

    In practice, it can be extremely difficult to determine feints (in their current form) more than feinting advocates like to claim.



  • A “veteran” should know how to read feints. The only thing that is wrong with feints IMO is that they should take more stamina.

    I haven’t the foggiest idea on how to read feints. Is it real or is it fake? Hmm well, the animations are exactly the same, the facial expressions are exactly the same (not that I’m implying there should be facial expressions, that’s impossible, but people like to compare feints to poker for some reason), there is literally nothing disconcerting the two. I just make a guess on whether to parry or not based on whether or not this person has used feints previously and if you’ve never fought this person before, you have nothing to go on whatsoever. If a person uses feints, they can choose to feint or not on any one of their swings and I just have to guess whether to parry or not each time. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on feints, naturally, and mine is firmly that feints are completely skilless and take no effort whatsoever (and yes, I still use them, I don’t purposefully gimp myself; it just feels cheap when my opponent correctly tries to parry my attack but I cancelled it and restarted it for a mere 15 stamina, which is essentially 6 free hits on someone that can use feints well). So, I do agree with you that the feint stamina cost should be lifted to something more reasonable and encourages better timed feints, rather than just spamming it every other attack like most people do now.


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