The Holy Water Sprinkler



  • Before the beta, the HWS was an extremely quick, short bludgeon that dealt hearty pierceblunt damage with its swings. During the course of the beta, its timings were normalized with the hatchet. Then, something odd happened; it was “reworked” into a sort of stabbing weapon, possibly to differentiate itself from the Mace.

    However, no one really liked it, so the rework was reversed. However, a consequence of the rework has remained - the HWS has awful combo times (.7). As a result, this poor weapon seems to have been left neglected due to the release of CU1. Left in the dust as a completely inferior counterpart to the Flanged Mace, I feel now is a good time to discuss where we want this weapon to go.

    It stands to reason it might’ve been too similar to the Mace. How much shorter and faster can we really make a blunt weapon? The “Stabbing Mace” idea was kind of interesting, but like I said, didn’t really fit.

    In the interest of objectivity and ease of discussion, here are the current numbers as of CU1:

    Holy Water Sprinkler Windup / Combo / Release / Recovery
    (Slash/Overhead/Thrust)

    S: 55 PierceBlunt 0.35 / 0.7 / 0.45 / 0.5
    O: 60 PierceBlunt 0.4 / 0.7/ 0.4 / 0.5
    T: 45 PierceBlunt 0.3 / 0.7 / 0.45 / 0.4

    Flanged Mace

    S: 65 Blunt 0.4 / 0.625/ 0.4/ 0.55
    O: 65 Blunt 0.45 / 0.6 / 0.4 / 0.5
    T 30 Blunt 0.3 / 0.625 / 0.35 / 0.5

    We can conclude that while the HWS enjoys superior windup times and some better recoveries, it has an extremely slow combo speed and some poor release times. In addition, it deals inferior damage with the exception of its thrust.

    So, the question I pose to you (besides whether or not it’s actually underpowered or not): What kind of weapon do you envision the HWS as? It was originally a bashtastic, combo-happy, in-your-face kind of mace reminiscent to the Mace of AoC. Then, it was changed into a poorly comboing mace with an excellent thrust attack. Now, it’s a fast, yet poorly comboing weapon that doesn’t seem to have a clear role.

    Discuss away! :D



  • I allways used it as a secondary in my knights setup, as it was a good contrast to the maul. I think that i will switch to the mace now since the HWS seems to have lost all he advantages now.



  • It was fine before stab damage nerf, now it just sucks.



  • Holy water is useless now.



  • As much as I’m loathe to bump topics, considering little has changed since the post was created, and the topic didn’t receive the discussion it deserved, I’d like to bring this issue to people’s attentions once more.

    I’m fairly certain these numbers were taken after CU1 (it was written on Jan 31), so they should be up to date. Please correct me if they aren’t!

    To add to the discussion, the HWS’ Slash is currently its fastest attack. The Flanged Mace essentially has identical Slash and Overhead attacks; same damage, same timings. In the interest of differentiation, I suggest the HWS be made so its Overhead is its strongest attack, in terms of both damage (where this is the case now) as well as its speed.



  • I really don’t know what can be done with it. I envision it as a small Grand Mace, faster with less damage, but same concept. We’ve got the Mace, which as you’ve shown is better for in-your-face combat, and the awesome Morning Star, which has a nice blend of everything. How about make the HWS the heavy hitter of the three, being faster than the Grand Mace, but more powerful than its secondary tree, while getting a bit more range.

    Actually, now that I think about it and read the description, how about making the HWS the middle ground? Flanged Mace for overwhelm, MS for defensive, strong hits, and the HWS for middle ground. It would be quicker than the MS, while having nearly the range, and hit harder than the Flanged Mace while keeping its current speed. How does that sound?



  • I miss HWS’s stab pre-CU1 patch.
    Had the same speed but better damage.



  • I think the weapon is silly and its range is too short for the damage it has in my opinion



  • The HWS used to be the weapon for overwhelming, where the Flanged was the middle ground. Then they gutted the weapon, and then tried to re-work.

    I’d like to see it return as a low damage, super fast overwhelm weapon.



  • @NikolaiLev:

    I’d like to see it return as a low damage, super fast overwhelm weapon.

    So basically a blunt dagger? Well, it could work… even though it is still hard to imagine how this could be more useful than the flanged mace, that thing is already evil fast. And if you make the HWS even faster, remember the last time you fought a good dagger face-hugger - and now imagine him dealing blunt damage that kills you in four hits or so… could be quite ridiculous.

    On the other hand, maybe we could use the secondary swords as an inspiration: There is the allrounder (Broadsword), the short fast swing heavy hitter (Falchion) and the fast waving low damage with a good stab (Norse Sword).

    Make Morning Star the medium speed allrounder
    Flanged Mace the short fast lower damage waver but with a good stab (the model has a thrusting spike)
    and Holy Water Sprinkler the short not-quite-as-fast heavy swinger with a weak stab.



  • @Don_Kanaille:

    So basically a blunt dagger? Well, it could work… even though it is still hard to imagine how this could be more useful than the flanged mace, that thing is already evil fast. And if you make the HWS even faster, remember the last time you fought a good dagger face-hugger - and now imagine him dealing blunt damage that kills you in four hits or so… could be quite ridiculous.

    I’m fine with this. I have never, ever, ever had an issue with facehuggers, especially not daggers.

    @Don_Kanaille:

    On the other hand, maybe we could use the secondary swords as an inspiration: There is the allrounder (Broadsword), the short fast swing heavy hitter (Falchion) and the fast waving low damage with a good stab (Norse Sword).

    Make Morning Star the medium speed allrounder
    Flanged Mace the short fast lower damage waver but with a good stab (the model has a thrusting spike)
    and Holy Water Sprinkler the short not-quite-as-fast heavy swinger with a weak stab.

    Meh. This doesn’t really make much sense. The Morning Star should be the long, slow heavy hitter, as it is now. The Flanged should be the all-rounder (maces are inherently fast, short weapons, so naturally the baseline is different from the swords). The HWS should be a slightly weaker, shorter, faster PierceBlunt version of the Flanged Mace, with a decent stab.



  • @NikolaiLev:

    Meh. This doesn’t really make much sense. The Morning Star should be the long, slow heavy hitter, as it is now. The Flanged should be the all-rounder (maces are inherently fast, short weapons, so naturally the baseline is different from the swords). The HWS should be a slightly weaker, shorter, faster PierceBlunt version of the Flanged Mace, with a decent stab.

    Well, then do it that way? Sounds reasonable enough, I was just trying to find something like a guide line…

    Only issue I’d have with that is that the Holy Water Sprinkler’s model does absolutely not look like a stabbing weapon, since it doesn’t even have a spike on top. Of course that is something you could live with if it helps the game balance, would just be a bit of a shame as pretty much every other weapon’s look clearly hints at what it’s good at.



  • The HWS definitely needs faster combo times because the current ones are slower than or on par with half the two-handers.



  • @Don_Kanaille:

    Only issue I’d have with that is that the Holy Water Sprinkler’s model does absolutely not look like a stabbing weapon, since it doesn’t even have a spike on top. Of course that is something you could live with if it helps the game balance, would just be a bit of a shame as pretty much every other weapon’s look clearly hints at what it’s good at.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f … =128946824

    Looks like a spike to me. :)



  • i feel like it should be shortsword speed for it to be balanced, as for now… its useless



  • @NikolaiLev:

    @Don_Kanaille:

    Only issue I’d have with that is that the Holy Water Sprinkler’s model does absolutely not look like a stabbing weapon, since it doesn’t even have a spike on top. Of course that is something you could live with if it helps the game balance, would just be a bit of a shame as pretty much every other weapon’s look clearly hints at what it’s good at.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f … =128946824

    Looks like a spike to me. :)

    Wow. I guess I got fooled by the official armory picture.

    I hereby retract my statement and claim the opposite.

    PS: I agree combo time should be a top priority for changes.



  • I want it to be real fast, short and have low dmg.



  • You are wearing heavy armour. The class is supposed to be slow. Why do people want this ez mode class to get even more easy? If you don’t like balace, war of the roses is the game for you.



  • @metallike:

    You are wearing heavy armour. The class is supposed to be slow. Why do people want this ez mode class to get even more easy? If you don’t like balace, war of the roses is the game for you.

    We are talking here about weapon not class.


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